Water baptism cannot make you right with God

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When Jersus was Baptized in water God the Father said “This is my beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased.”

Exactly when did God changed from being pleased with Water Baptism to Hating it?

If it was good enough for Jesus–why isn’t it good enough for any of His followers?

When did He say to quit using water for He did command the disciples to Baptize all nations–if anyone claims that is not true they shouldn’t be listened to by anyone!
 
When Jersus was Baptized in water God the Father said “This is my beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased.”

Exactly when did God changed from being pleased with Water Baptism to Hating it?

If it was good enough for Jesus–why isn’t it good enough for any of His followers?

When did He say to quit using water for He did command the disciples to Baptize all nations–if anyone claims that is not true they shouldn’t be listened to by anyone!
Go over to the new thread. He is going to show us how baptism has nothing to do with water, beginning with the pickle bath! 👍
 
:tiphat: Baptism is a burial. For a burial to take place, one must be put under something (dirt, a large rock, water) The symbolism of water baptism is the cleansing of the soul through the blood of Jesus the Christ. It is believed that only His blood can wash away sins, and upon rising (resurrection) from the watery burial, the old man is destroyed and the new man emerges to walk in the newness of life. Remember, Christ said; “No one comes to the Father except by me.” Therefore, baptism is essential to make you “right with God”. But, so does living a faithful and righteous Christian life.

**"Remain faithful unto death and I will give you a crown of life.’ **(Rev. 2:10) :bowdown:
 
I’ve said this many times in the past
it is because of debates like these that Jesus instituted a Church with infallible teaching authority. Christ only instituted one teaching authority, the Church. So a person teaching the truth is teaching the truth handed to us from Christ to the Church.

Obviously, those who disagree with Catholicism have worked very very hard to come to their conclusions; they’ve looked at the greek, they’ve studied all the relevent passages; they’ve read books and read the papers of learned scholars.

What about all the folk who don’t take the time to do all of that? Who are they to listen to?

All that the Protestants are doing is forming a different church and saying “Listen to what I have to say! I have authority because I am teaching the truth” But in reality, they doubt it all the time. They’ve spent all this time and energy pouring themselves into studying doctrines which didn’t even exist in the early church, were never taught, and they use the Bible to justify all of it.
You can use the Scriptures to justify anything you want, like Peter says in 2 Peter 3:15-17
“And count the forebearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability.”

Peter is saying, there are some men who have taken Paul’s writings and completely distorted them. Peter himself says that his writings are hard to understand. Also the other Scriptures (the Old Testament no doubt) are twisted to fit these conflicting doctrines.
Peter is saying HOLD ON and do not fall away! Even so early, there were some trying to act on “my own authority which i say is inspired by the Holy Spirit” idea.
Obviously, those people that Peter is talking about were very sincere in their false beliefs. 2 Peter is practically entirely about false teachers! But Peter is saying HOLD ON to our teachings! Like Paul said in 2 Thessalonians Ch 2 verse 15.
“So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter”
Apart Peter and Paul were the leaders in the Church endowed with the authority to teach and preach. It was never given to the individual believer to interpret the Scriptures on our own, God just isn’t that cruel.
So for as much time as you perhaps have spent in trying to discover the truth of the Scriptures, would it be completely impossible to think that maybe, just maybe, you’re not even working as God wills you to work? Look to the early Church Fathers, see what they taught, they were taught by the Apostles themselves.
To finish my point, i would direct your attention to 2 Thessalonians 3:6
“Now, we command you, bretheren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us.”

A couple things I want to point out
1.) Paul commands in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to do something.
2.) He commands the bretheren (us) to keep away from those who are not living in accord with the traditions handed down by the Apostles.
3.) If Paul commands it (and this is in the Word of God) then we are ALL bound by it; is Paul not assuming that there is actually a way to distinguish between that which IS handed down by the Apostles and that which is NOT?

Paul is already assuming that the faithful that he is writing to knows what he’s talking about; he knows that they know who to turn to for the teaching of Jesus Christ.
If Paul has commanded it, there are, simply by the use of reason, MANY Christians who have not followed his command simply by looking at the division in the Church.

To what/whom are we to look to to distinguish between truth and lies? Paul assumes that we’re actually able to do that.
 
(cont)
This is the Church; the pillar and foundation of truth (1 Tim 3:15)
Paul says to all of us (and Peter especially in 2 Peter) in his letters that false teachers will come. But counterfeits imply something has been counterfeited.
But this pesky Catholic Church is still around for 20 centuries and not going anywhere. Satan is the father of lies, and he prevails againt the Church if he is able to get ONE lie to be taught. If lies are taught, it is not from the Church, but from those who have seperated on that point. The Church MUST BE INFALLIBLE in all teaching because Paul said the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth! The Church can not be that and also the pillar and foundation of some lies and false teachings!
It is Christ’s Church, HE BUILDS IT, He is the master builder. The Church, because it is Christ’s, is by necessity infallible and without error in teaching.

But what non-Catholic would actually claim to be without error in all his teachings? To a non-Catholic, the search continues.

As with baptism, Jesus spoke to nicodemus in John 3 and was surprised that he didn’t understand. He was a teacher of the law and so Jesus assumed he would have known that all through the Old Testament God always saved people by water and Spirit. (Think of the creation, when the Spirit hovered above the waters; the flood with noah and the dove; the crossing of the red sea and on and on)
Jesus says 'you are a teacher of the law and still you do not understand?" in verse 10.
God is at liberity to do things however He wills it. “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God”
If God uses water and the Spirit in the Old Testament, what makes us think that Jesus has come to abolish all of that? Rather He has come to fulfill the law and perfect it!
“Now baptism saves you!”
“Be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of your sins!”
“Go and baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit!”
We’re all familiar with these verses. But how are we to determine what they mean? Are we all to spend hours studying the greek and comparing this scholar to that?
Of course not! We’d have no time to go and feed the pour and preach repentance!
Jesus never intended for all of us to have to find the truth on our own; and then disagree with every other person who claims the same possession of truth! And then they can say “o well, it doesnt matter that we disagree! Because we both have faith in Jesus”
I’ll tell you this, faith is a gift from God, and it is only real, genuine faith if what is believed is the truth. To believe a lie is not to have God-given faith, because God does not give faith in lies. We humanly ascent to false doctrines, but real faith only ascents to the truth, in its fullness; because it is from God. You must become as a little child to enter the Kingdom.
If we believe a false doctrine, we do not have faith in that doctrine.
If we believe a true doctrine, we have faith in that doctrine.
FAITH and the TRUTH can not be seperated.
“Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved!”
I say YES and AMEN! But Who is Jesus? Do I have to believe all of Jesus and all of what He says? Jesus even asked that question.
 
(cont)
"Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi (there’s a huge rock formation near there) He asked His disciples, “Who do men say that the Son of man is?” And they said, “Some say John the Baptist, others say Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the other prophets.” He said to them “But who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God” And Jesus answered him "blessed are you, Simon son of John, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you but my Father Who is in Heaven. And I tell you, you are Peter (Rock) and on this rock I will build my Church and powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in Heaven and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in Heaven."
Matthe 16:13-18 (for a further reference that the Apostles no doubt understood while standing there, read the prefigurement of what Jesus is doing in Isaiah 22:22, real authority there, real succession there too)

I add the bold letters to emphasize that Jesus is giving authority to Peter and the Church (Matthew 18:18 can be read too, read verses 15-18. What Church is Jesus saying to go to? And why does this Chuch have authority to bind and loose?)

Satan is the father of lies and will never prevail against Jesus’ infallible Church, the pillar and foundation of truth.
"Who do you say that I am?"

Believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved.

Believe ALL of Jesus. Believe ALL of what Jesus said.

You will have to account for every single doctrine or false doctrine that you have believe and taught. If Paul has commanded you to stay to the truth, has not God provided the means for you to obey that command to to recognize the Traditions and distinguish between error and truth? We have been commanded in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to abide in the truth.

Ephesians Chapter 4:1-6
"I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called, with all humility and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, eager to maintain the **unity **of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, **one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all

There is only one faith. This is entered into by the one baptism that Jesus commanded. (Interesting how Paul makes mention of baptism here, no?)
Is God limited to this? Of course not, He is merciful. But do you really want to risk being outside of the truth? The truth that God commands us to abide in; a command that He has enabled us to abide by. Do you want to obey the command of God’s Word to hold fast to that which was handed down?
One Faith. It is the faith from our Lord Jesus. The complete and total Jesus. Who knows where everything else comes from. But Jesus has protected the truth handed down through the centuries. And He is calling you and all to that one Faith.
Say yes; He’s worth selling everything for.

God Bless you,
Mordocai
 
I agree. If anyone believes they will naturally want to be baptized since Jesus said we should be. If you don’t want to be baptized I would seriously question if you actually believe.
AMEN!!! If you believe then why not get baptized. Jesus did.
 
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