water baptism

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MrIsla

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in protestant churches i recall they fully emerse people, oppose to the catholic church only puts water on the head. in the bible it says to fully immerse your self in water. why doesn’t the catholic church do this. im not sure im right on this but can you please explain how catholic’s baptize and how it applys to scripture.

thanks and god bless.

Mr. Isla
 
MrIsla said:
in protestant churches i recall they fully emerse people, oppose to the catholic church only puts water on the head
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Actually, some protestant churches also do not immerse (the Methodists and the Episcopal churches come to mind).
MrIsla said:
in the bible it says to fully immerse your self in water.
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Um, no it doesn’t…
MrIsla said:
Why doesn’t the catholic church do this.
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Immersion is (and has always been) the preferred method of Baptism, but the Church has always recognized that full immersion was not necessary. As churches were built away from rivers or lakes (in times and places where indoor plumbing was not available, and chlorination was unknown), it became more difficult to maintain a baptisimal pool, so many such churches (as a practical matter) adopted non-immersive Baptism. Gradually, this method (valid, but not preferred) became the norm.

However, in recent years, the Church has emphasized a return to the practice of immersive Baptism. In any church of modern construction built in a society where it is not impractical to maintain a Baptisimal pool, you will always find such a pool, and it will be used in Baptism.
 
You can also add the Amish to the list of Protestant groups that do not baptize by immersion.

Methodists will do either, but if it is an infant baptism, it will always be by pouring water on the head much as the Catholics do. I was baptized originally in the Methodist Church, and was baptized by full immersion near the banks of a river.

The Didache (also called the Teachings of the Twelve Apostles) provides the following instructions regarding baptism:
1 And concerning baptism, thus baptize ye: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, Matthew 28:19 in living water. 2 But if you have not living water, baptize into other water; and if you can not in cold, in warm. 3 But if you have not either, pour out water thrice upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. 4 But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whatever others can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.
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The emphasis in the above quote is mine. There is some disagreement as to whether the Didache was actually written by the Twelve Apostles, but one thing they do agree on is that, even if it is not from the original Apostles, it is still valuable as an early Church document as to how things were done.
 
Letchitsa1 said:
You can also add the Amish to the list of Protestant groups that do not baptize by immersion.
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And Lutherans and Presbyterians as well.

It seems most of the older protestant sects acknowledge the validity of Baptism by pouring, whereas the majority of protestant sects invented in the modern era do not. I suppose this may be related to the fact that the modern age makes Baptism by immersion (or even full submersion) more practical in industrialized societies (because of the availability of plumbing and sanitation).
 
MrIsla said:
in protestant churches i recall they fully emerse people, oppose to the catholic church only puts water on the head. in the bible it says to fully immerse your self in water. why doesn’t the catholic church do this. im not sure im right on this but can you please explain how catholic’s baptize and how it applys to scripture.

thanks and god bless.

Mr. Isla
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The Bible does not specify; “to fully immerse your self in water”, and has examples of where it would not have been possible to immerse a person in the circumstances.
However the Catholic Church does immerse in some cases where possible.
 
thank you all for such insightful responces. i love these boards
 
DavidFilmer said:
Actually, some protestant churches also do not immerse (the Methodists and the Episcopal churches come to mind).
Um, no it doesn’t…
Immersion is (and has always been) the preferred method of Baptism, but the Church has always recognized that full immersion was not necessary. As churches were built away from rivers or lakes (in times and places where indoor plumbing was not available, and chlorination was unknown), it became more difficult to maintain a baptisimal pool, so many such churches (as a practical matter) adopted non-immersive Baptism. Gradually, this method (valid, but not preferred) became the norm.

However, in recent years, the Church has emphasized a return to the practice of immersive Baptism. In any church of modern construction built in a society where it is not impractical to maintain a Baptisimal pool, you will always find such a pool, and it will be used in Baptism.
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Originally Posted by MrIsla
in the bible it says to fully immerse your self in water
Will you please give chapter and verse that say you are right
 
MrIsla,why won’t you answer my question of whether or not you are a Catholic?I don’t think you are.I think that you are POSING as a Catholic.I have never met a Catholic who SEEMS to know less about his Faith than you do.I think that you would be a good candidate for RCIA and then you can get ALL your questions answered.
I have asked this question of you on several threads and you have NEVER answered.Really,honesty is the best policy.I will continue asking this question until you answer it.Annoying,no?😉
 
MrIsla said:
in protestant churches i recall they fully emerse people,
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Protestant churches vary in how they baptize. Immersion is not universal. Their are Protestant denominations that pour.
MrIsla said:
oppose to the catholic church only puts water on the head.
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Catholic Churches vary in how they baptize. Pouring is not universal. There are Catholic Churches who immerse.
MrIsla said:
in the bible it says to fully immerse your self in water.
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No. It doesn’t.
 
Baptists and Pentecostal churches prefer immersion …

in lakes, creeks, rivers, swimming pools, and 5 ft deep baptismal church fonts.

By the way, they are taught that Catholics only ‘spinkle’ … which is believed valid, but inferior to the methods used in the Early Church times.
 
And the irony is - if they knew the historical records of the Early Church, they would know the Catholics perform most baptisms today - by pouring - is the way of the Early Church. Of course, that would require them to go back into history further than 500 years, and it would also require them to rely on more than the Bible, neither of which a great many of them are willing to do. That said - many of them also believe in re-baptism, and if memory serves, that has been declared heresy.
 
MrIsla said:
in protestant churches i recall they fully emerse people, oppose to the catholic church only puts water on the head. in the bible it says to fully immerse your self in water. why doesn’t the catholic church do this. im not sure im right on this but can you please explain how catholic’s baptize and how it applys to scripture.

thanks and god bless.

Mr. Isla
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where does the bible say the only way to baptize is through full immersion? not every Protestant or non-Catholic Christian denomination baptizes in this way, many do it by pouring or sprinkling. As a matter of fact, adults are usually baptized by immersion in the Catholic Church, but pouring is also acceptable.
 
Br.Rich_SFO said:
The Bible does not specify; “to fully immerse your self in water”, and has examples of where it would not have been possible to immerse a person in the circumstances.
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I am in dialogue with a full-immersion-only Protestant, and he insists that it is in Scripture. Apparently the Greek word baptizo means “to go under” or “submerge.” So this is why full-immersion folks insist that it is indeed prescribed in the Bible.

How can I respond to my friend? I tried saying that full immersion is impractical in some places, but he keeps coming back with the Greek word meaning precisely what it says.
 
Well the truth is many Protestants and non-Catholics in their watered-down theology no longer even baptise since they see it as an unnecessary symbolic ritual that probably sounds “too Catholic” to them.

Examples include: Quakers, Salvation Army, do not see baptism as necessary.

Ironically “Baptists” see baptism as unnecessary for salvation and only a sign or public declaration of faith that one is already perpetually “saved”. :confused:

Anabaptists do not consider it necessary for salvation either but nonetheless necessary for proper faith formation if that is not a direct contradiction… :confused:

James
 
What I want to know is why the same people who want to call Catholics so “legal” and “ritual” are the same one’s who will insist on interpreting scripture in a very narrow and precise legalistic manner?

What was the Aramaic word for baptise? That was what Jesus and the apostles spoke in - few of the disciples even spoke any Greek.

But we don’t even need to go to the bible for the particulars of baptism - since NONE of the original Church ever did. They just followed the handed down traditions like Catholics do today. All that is really important is what the early church believed and did and what was passed down to us.

If we want to take everything in the NT accounts verbatim and literal then we should all be taking a mecca to the Jordan River and being baptised by close friend or disciple of Christ. Of course the only one’s remaining on the planet who are disciples of Christ are those who continue to hold to the apostolic traditions and that handed down apostolic authority and tradition - Catholics (and for the most part Orthodox). Everything else is neo-Christianity and both untraditional and unbiblical.

Being “biblical” is either an oxymoron or a new tradition of man since there was no bible in the early Church and not a single early Christian studied it, recited it and used it as a religion and faith substitute. There was only a single handed down apostolic tradition, teaching, worship and a single baptism into The Catholic Church.

James
 
surritter said:
I am in dialogue with a full-immersion-only Protestant, and he insists that it is in Scripture. Apparently the Greek word baptizo means “to go under” or “submerge.” So this is why full-immersion folks insist that it is indeed prescribed in the Bible.

How can I respond to my friend? I tried saying that full immersion is impractical in some places, but he keeps coming back with the Greek word meaning precisely what it says.
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Maybe he does not know precisly what it says?

The Greek term *baptizo *is derived from the root *bapto, *When used for Christian Baptism it implies the application of water to the subject, not the mode of it’s application. The root word, usually translated in English “to dip” does occur in the New Testament four times, but never in reference to Christian Baptism. It does not necessarily imply submersion, the idea of entire plunging was created by Baptists to designate their mode of Baptism. The total triple submersion mode of Baptism used by some Baptists (not all) is used only by a very small percentage of Christianity. Other methods, pouring, sprinkling, partial immersion, etc, are used by the majority of Christianity. Matthew 26:23 is one example, no one familiar with the method of eating in the east would suggest that Christ invited judas to plunge his whole hand into the food bowl. Keep in mind also that the derivative word *baptizo *looses some of the force of the root word *bapto. *For example *black *is more specific than *blackish, *which means not quite black. For your friend to maintain that the only meaning of the word *baptizo *is to totally submerse is totally presumptive on his part. Mark 7:4 speaks of the ceremonial baptism or purification of cups, pots, brazen vessels and beds (couches). Cups and pots could possibly be submersed, but not beds. The most common method of accomplishing this ceremonial washing which sometimes took place every day, was to sprinkle with consecrated water. The Pharisees frequently baptized their furniture to guard against any possible impurity. The Greek words derived from bapto used in these passages simply conveys the idea of washing. What was the mode of washing (baptizing) among the Pharisees and Jews? In Luke 11:38 and Mark 7:4 The washings or baptisms were ceremonial purifications and only involved the pouring or sprinkling of water. There is no single example in the Scriptures where *baptizo *or any of the other derivative words from the root *bapto *ever implies Submersion ONLY. It simply implies the application of water. Only two words are used in the New Testament when referring to the Sacrament, Baptizo and Baptismos, translated Baptise and Baptism. The writers of the New Testament do not use any of the many Greek words specifically signifying immersion, sprinkling or pouring, but only use Baptise or Baptism never specifying the mode. *Baptizo *is translated only twice in the New Testament as WASH again without any reference to the mode.
 
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