Water Bottles durring Mass

[boppaid]

We live in a culture where the is common agreement about what is respectful. It is not all that subjective.

Drinking water at Church is subjective. Obviously there is no common agreement about that. (Or we wouldn’t be having this debate and water bottles would never be found in church!)

But go ahead: judgmental and self-righteous: I can live with the title.

I’m not giving you a title, I’m saying that’s how you are ACTING. In this thread. I doubt you’re like that all the time, and I would never presume to think you are. So, please don’t feel I am name calling> I’m just trying to say that is the tone of your posts on thsi thread.

At least I base my judgment on some kind of rational standard – or did you not read the citations from the Code of Canon Law and Sacrosanctum Concilium?

This is what I’m talking about! It’s self-righteousness big time. I did read the citations y ou posted. I simply disagreed with your interpretation on how you related them to this topic. Or didn’t you read MY response?!!

Again: I contend that detraction from the Sacred Liturgy definitely skirts an offense against the first commandment.

And again I contend that there is no distracton from the liturgy from a drink of water. I guess we’re going around and around here, huh?

 

[baltobetsy]

I think within OUR culture bringing water to a formal ceremony is acceptable.

And there’s the whole crux of the disagreement. I’m beginning to suspect that it’s an age thing. May I ask how old you are? I’m in my early 50’s, and it was drilled into me at an early age that eating and drinking at a formal ceremony or in a formal place (church, concert hall, courthouse, museum) were completely unacceptable. And I’m sad to see a shift away from this refinement.

Betsy

 

[boppaid]

And there’s the whole crux of the disagreement. I’m beginning to suspect that it’s an age thing. May I ask how old you are? I’m in my early 50’s, and it was drilled into me at an early age that eating and drinking at a formal ceremony or in a formal place (church, concert hall, courthouse, museum) were completely unacceptable. And I’m sad to see a shift away from this refinement.

Betsy

You know what Betsy? I bet you’re on to something. I am 34. Maybe you’re right.

 

[baltobetsy]

You know what Betsy? I bet you’re on to something. I am 34. Maybe you’re right.

So now all the old geezers can say how the younger generation is taking the world to hell in a handbasket!

Betsy

 

[Faith1960]

And there’s the whole crux of the disagreement. I’m beginning to suspect that it’s an age thing. May I ask how old you are? I’m in my early 50’s, and it was drilled into me at an early age that eating and drinking at a formal ceremony or in a formal place (church, concert hall, courthouse, museum) were completely unacceptable. And I’m sad to see a shift away from this refinement.

Betsy

My father used to scold me for putting my hands in my pockets during Mass. I can’t imagine what he would’ve done had I whipped out a drink and started chugging!

 

[Faith1960]

And there’s the whole crux of the disagreement. I’m beginning to suspect that it’s an age thing. May I ask how old you are? I’m in my early 50’s, and it was drilled into me at an early age that eating and drinking at a formal ceremony or in a formal place (church, concert hall, courthouse, museum) were completely unacceptable. And I’m sad to see a shift away from this refinement.

Betsy

:yup: I really think that’s it. Things change and seem to become more and more casual.

 

[sparc]

IMHO,

Practical view: The Mass is only for about an hour and not a whole day. Why can’t we drink all we want before going to church? Can’t we just wait after the Mass is finished before taking even a sip of water? Unless of course one is sick or in need of medical attention.

Theological view: Christ got thristy while hanging on the cross. Will you take a sip of water while He sips on sour wine/vinegar instead?

Why not offer your thrist to God and drink after the Mass?

 

[mercygate]

Drinking water at Church is subjective. Obviously there is no common agreement about that. (Or we wouldn’t be having this debate and water bottles would never be found in church!)

I’m not giving you a title, I’m saying that’s how you are ACTING. In this thread. I doubt you’re like that all the time, and I would never presume to think you are. So, please don’t feel I am name calling> I’m just trying to say that is the tone of your posts on thsi thread.

This is what I’m talking about! It’s self-righteousness big time. I did read the citations y ou posted. I simply disagreed with your interpretation on how you related them to this topic. Or didn’t you read MY response?!!

And again I contend that there is no distracton from the liturgy from a drink of water. I guess we’re going around and around here, huh?

I am a teacher. It is my job to teach. It is my job to pass on the traditions I have received whether by mouth or in writing, to bring the younger generation into the family.

I cited Church documents, which you asked for. My ground is solid. My point is well taken.

Keep in mind that the generation of Catholics born after 1960 for the most part suffered from an appalling lack of teaching on all matters relating to the faith: doctrinal, moral, and behavioral. Fortunately, not having been Catholic at the time, I was spared this neglect and am doing my best with my classes to guide my children into a more comprehensive and comprehending experience of their faith, right down to how they use their bodies in church.

So yes: I stand my ground on this small point because life is a mosaic made of trifles, and they add up either to beauty or to chaos.

 

[Detroit_Sue]

I am a teacher. It is my job to teach. It is my job to pass on the traditions I have received whether by mouth or in writing, to bring the younger generation into the family.

I cited Church documents, which you asked for. My ground is solid. My point is well taken.

Keep in mind that the generation of Catholics born after 1960 for the most part suffered from an appalling lack of teaching on all matters relating to the faith: doctrinal, moral, and behavioral. Fortunately, not having been Catholic at the time, I was spared this neglect and am doing my best with my classes to guide my children into a more comprehensive and comprehending experience of their faith, right down to how they use their bodies in church.

So yes: I stand my ground on this small point because life is a mosaic made of trifles, and they add up either to beauty or to chaos.

BINGO! The sentence I highlighted is the key. Actually, even those who were young adults in the 60s got all screwed up, too.

 

[mercygate]

BINGO! The sentence I highlighted is the key. Actually, even those who were young adults in the 60s got all screwed up, too.

Thanks Sue!

 

[jmcrae]

I think within OUR culture bringing water to a formal ceremony is acceptable. I cannot recall any ceremony where water was unacceptable. I’ve seen wedding ceremonies with water, I’ve seen protestant church services, I’ve seen college classes allow water, I’ve seen water bottles at graduation ceremonies. Honestly, can you think of a ceremony that doesn’t allow water?

I’ve been to Remembrance Day (Nov. 11) ceremonies where people were quietly asked to leave, who were chewing gum and/or using water bottles during the ceremony.

At my graduation ceremony for my BFA three years ago (Alberta College of Art and Design, which isn’t exactly a bastion of formality: half the presenters were wearing jeans), they threw out my best friend’s son because he had a water bottle with him. (He put it away with his jacket in the cloak room, and then they let him back in.)

I attended a Protestant (United Church of Canada) funeral today, and no one there brought in any water bottles; not even the young people. Kids (teens and people in their early 20s) who came on bikes left their bikes and their water bottles out in the side entranceway of the church; it would not have even occurred to them to bring them on in.

PS: On the rare occasions that I have the privilege to attend a concert or a play, it would never even dawn on me to bring in a water bottle, or chew gum, or burp, during the presentation. I’ve never seen anyone else do so, either, although I admit my experience is limited: I’m not very rich, and I tend to give any extra I have to the Church.

 

[paramedicgirl]

I’ve been to Remembrance Day (Nov. 11) ceremonies where people were quietly asked to leave, who were chewing gum and/or using water bottles during the ceremony.

At my graduation ceremony for my BFA three years ago (Alberta College of Art and Design, which isn’t exactly a bastion of formality: half the presenters were wearing jeans), they threw out my best friend’s son because he had a water bottle with him. (He put it away with his jacket in the cloak room, and then they let him back in.)

I attended a Protestant (United Church of Canada) funeral today, and no one there brought in any water bottles; not even the young people. Kids (teens and people in their early 20s) who came on bikes left their bikes and their water bottles out in the side entranceway of the church; it would not have even occurred to them to bring them on in.

PS: On the rare occasions that I have the privilege to attend a concert or a play, it would never even dawn on me to bring in a water bottle, or chew gum, or burp, during the presentation. I’ve never seen anyone else do so, either, although I admit my experience is limited: I’m not very rich, and I tend to give any extra I have to the Church.

All these points you mention elicit the attention of the attendees to not be disrespectful at the function. We know the Holy Mass much more sacred, yet some people don’t think twice about maintaining a casual air while in the presence of Our Lord.

 

[ktp]

The point is that it doesn’t matter why people are drinking water. We shouldn’t be taking notice of them. We should be concentrating on the Mass, and I repeat, if someone sipping from a bottle is enough to distract you from the Holy Sacrifice, then I maintain that you are paying far too much attention to your neighbor’s behavior and far too little to Our Lord.

I’ve seen this comment in other threads, that no matter what someone does in church, if we were really focused on God, we wouldn’t even notice. I have to play devil’s advocate on this one: I suppose if people start dancing naked in the aisles, or painting the pew around you in purple stripes, or tap dancing on the seat in front of you, if you are distracted, that’s really your problem for not being focused on God?

And I guarantee you, someone in a state of grace who is sipping water during Mass will get to Heaven much more easily than the person next to them who has set themselves up as judge and jury in charge of etiquette violations.

This accusation of being the judge and jury if one has any opinion on anything gets quite old. I think it’s disrespectful and inappropriate to take a drink into a house of worship. I think it is treating God like a sporting event. This does not make me judgmental or any of the other terms being thrown around. It means I am allowed to express my opinion on this board like everyone else.

 

[Kelly]

Take a deep breath here. This thread has largely addressed the matter of perfectly healthy people who were somehow deprived of basic training in civil public behavior.

It is highly unlikely that the first decade of the twenty-first century has seen an epidemic of diseases requiring instantaneous water-doses as therapy.
I agree with you Mercygate, I would like to add this:
People over the age of 18 months, generallly speaking, are perfectly capable of going an hour without water. This is hardly a sacrifice or mortification of any kind.

I am a registered nurse in a very busy Neonatal ICU. We have babies that are less than 2 pounds and off IV fluids that are on every three hour feeding schedules. Because they cannot regulate their own intake they are fed strictly on this schedule, not before three hours not after three hours. I think that if they can survive (and thrive) without a constant infusion of fluid, I find it hard to believe that there are normal, healthy adults out there that can’t.

Another question I have for the people that must have a water bottle with them at Mass is this. Is there anywhere that you go that you can deprive yourself of water for an hour. I am thinking of some courses that I have taken in laboratories and in computer labs where food and drink, including water, is strictly prohibited. Or perhaps an event such as the theater or such, where food and drink is only available during intermission?

 

[wannabee]

Is it not time that this thread was put out of its misery ?

We are all agreed that some folk actually very few ] need water during a one hour service.

Are we all agreed that for most folk this is just a trendy thing - and when we see folk starting to do something else we will follow suit ?

Now for a new thread on gum chewing during Mass

May I start that by saying it’s not necessary - it’s going back to the ’ we have to have something in our mouths all the time ’ idea ?

 

[kim3260]

I am a registered nurse in a very busy Neonatal ICU. We have babies that are less than 2 pounds and off IV fluids that are on every three hour feeding schedules. Because they cannot regulate their own intake they are fed strictly on this schedule, not before three hours not after three hours. I think that if they can survive (and thrive) without a constant infusion of fluid, I find it hard to believe that there are normal, healthy adults out there that can’t.

Another question I have for the people that must have a water bottle with them at Mass is this. Is there anywhere that you go that you can deprive yourself of water for an hour. I am thinking of some courses that I have taken in laboratories and in computer labs where food and drink, including water, is strictly prohibited. Or perhaps an event such as the theater or such, where food and drink is only available during intermission?

Not to drag this on but when a person such as my mother who would cough and gag constantly without water (she also on oxygen) the ONLY way she can go to Church is to bring water with her, otherwise her constant coughing would upset many people (it has). This except for the Doctor is her only time out of the house. Would it be better if she stayed home? I am really not trying to be fresh or rude, but really would like to know, should she stay home and have someone bring Commuion? She hardly goes shopping and never goes to out to dinner or a theater.
The more I read this thread, I understand her illness, though not intentional on her part might be causing a serious scandal. Her coughing is annoying and I can understand people getting upset especially if someone is sitting close by, but now I see how her sipping constantly from a waterbottle could unwittingly lead others to sin. Again I am not trying to sound fresh or rude please do not take it the wrong way, I’m just looking for answers. ( we actually perfer she stay home sometimes, it wears her out completely)

 

[ErinGoBrough]

I am curious if there are ANY medical conditions that prevent a person from going a whole hour without water. If so, how do they sleep at night? They would have to set their alarm to be up every 30 or 45 minutes to have a drink. …

I have a medical condition called achalasia – basically my esophagus does not work. One problem I have is the esophagus will go into spasms and cause severe chest pains – like getting a charlie horse in your chest. If I catch this early enough and take small sips of water I can calm the spasms and prevent a huge amount of pain for myself. Leaning over a water fountain to drink this only makes it worse – I need a water bottle. I have no idea when or where the spasms will occur so I need to bring a water bottle with me wherever I go. And I’ve had to use a couple of times during Mass.

Additionally, since my esophagus doesn’t work, I need small amounts of water to ensure that what I attempt to swallow makes it down to my stomach. This includes when I receive the Host. Afterwards I take small sips of water so that nothing gets stuck in my esophagus. (If it get’s stuck there is a chance that I will regurgatate.)

There is no way looking at me you could tell I have a problem. I’m a ‘youngish’ mother (OK I’m 40 ) with three young children. I look perfectly heathy. But I do get ‘dirty’ looks when I sip my water. Now I don’t mind people coming on the forum and saying that they think it’s disrespectful. I’m sure for some people that don’t need it it can be seen as disrespectful. But don’t think you know by looking whether someone needs it or not. I just find it so uncharitable to give someone dirty looks without understanding their circumstances.

So, I think mentioning in a public forum to help educate people about what might be inappropriate at Mass is fine. Just don’t carry that over to assume you understand a person’s circumstances.

 

[mercygate]

Not to drag this on but when a person such as my mother who would cough and gag constantly without water (she also on oxygen) the ONLY way she can go to Church is to bring water with her, otherwise her constant coughing would upset many people (it has). This except for the Doctor is her only time out of the house. Would it be better if she stayed home? I am really not trying to be fresh or rude, but really would like to know, should she stay home and have someone bring Commuion? She hardly goes shopping and never goes to out to dinner or a theater.
The more I read this thread, I understand her illness, though not intentional on her part might be causing a serious scandal. Her coughing is annoying and I can understand people getting upset especially if someone is sitting close by, but now I see how her sipping constantly from a waterbottle could unwittingly lead others to sin. Again I am not trying to sound fresh or rude please do not take it the wrong way, I’m just looking for answers. ( we actually perfer she stay home sometimes, it wears her out completely)

Good grief! This thread is not about invalids on oxygen! This thread is about healthy normal people who haven’t the common sense to realize that drinking water during Mass is rude. You just need to figure out, for your own mother’s comfort and your own, the best way to handle her special sitiuation. There does come a time in life when people have to face the reality that going out and about, either sociallly or to church is no longer reasonably possible. Nobody can write that script for you.

 

[kim3260]

Thanks for your response, Mercygate. I realized too late that I was responding not to the OT but my own fustrations. Tomorrow is Sunday and the same problems will arise again. She is a fiesty old girl But it is harder and harder especialy on Dad. This something my brothers and sister will have to tackle very soon.

 

[pnewton]

For those cantors in Mass. One thing one of my fellow cantors taught me (she is the only professional trained one) is that a hard candy or throat drop works better than water. It is also far less conspicuous. I keep some handy, but only need them when I have a cold or allergy problem.