Water Dowsing

[thistle]

I am trying to explain to a Catholic friend of mine that water dowsing is forbidden and showed them the CCC sections quoted below. However, she told me that the CCC is not referring to water dowsing as this does not entail telling the future or having supernatural control over people.
My view is that it is still trying to make use of some supernatural power but that was countered by my friend agreeing saying it is a gift from God to help people find water.
Help! What is the Church view on water dowsing?

CCC 2115 God can reveal the future to his prophets or to other saints. Still, a sound Christian attitude consists in putting oneself confidently into the hands of Providence for whatever concerns the future, and giving up all unhealthy curiosity about it. Improvidence, however, can constitute a lack of responsibility.

CCC 2116 All forms of divination are to be rejected: recourse to Satan or demons, conjuring up the dead or other practices falsely supposed to “unveil” the future. Consulting horoscopes, astrology, palm reading, interpretation of omens and lots, the phenomena of clairvoyance, and recourse to mediums all conceal a desire for power over time, history, and, in the last analysis, other human beings, as well as a wish to conciliate hidden powers. They contradict the honor, respect, and loving fear that we owe to God alone.

CCC 2117 All practices of magic or sorcery, by which one attempts to tame occult powers, so as to place them at one’s service and have a supernatural power over others - even if this were for the sake of restoring their health - are gravely contrary to the virtue of religion. These practices are even more to be condemned when accompanied by the intention of harming someone, or when they have recourse to the intervention of demons. Wearing charms is also reprehensible. Spiritism often implies divination or magical practices; the Church for her part warns the faithful against it. Recourse to so-called traditional cures does not justify either the invocation of evil powers or the exploitation of another’s credulity.

 

[Kotton]

Your friend is correct, it does not entail telling the future or having supernatural control over people. Only if someone ‘believed’ they had ‘supernatural power’ would this apply. I find nothing in the quotes you gave that pertain to water dowsing.

Now, how does it work? I don’t know. Some people seemed to have the ability, and part of it may be they knew in a general manner where the best prospect would be. It has lost use in modern times as we gain more geological knowledge, and not rely on hit or miss practices.

Now, for a personal story:
The farm I grew up on, my father’s, which had been purchased from the estate of Mr. Clark, had one of the best wells in the neighborhood. When Mr. Clark bought the property from the Indian owner it had no well, so he had a man known for dowsing to come. He found a very good strong pull, and placed a stake, to return later to dig the well. Since Mr. Clark did not believe in dowsing, he pulled the stake and place it some distance away. Upon the man’s return he checked again for the water and got nothing. He then roamed the area and when he felt the tug, THERE WAS THE STAKE HOLE.


Kotton

 

[puzzleannie]

I am trying to explain to a Catholic friend of mine that water dowsing is forbidden and showed them the CCC sections quoted below. However, she told me that the CCC is not referring to water dowsing as this does not entail telling the future or having supernatural control over people…

you can’t make up rules, you have to stick with the ones actually existing in Church teaching. water dowsing is generally thought to take advantage of as yet unexplained natural phenomena in locating sources of water, and is a commonly accepted practice among those whose jobs rely on that skill. nothing supernatural about it, hence, nothing in CCC relates to it. If someone is claiming to be a witch runs around claiming this skill and claiming supernatural basis for it, that would be another matter. That would be akin to someone with a natural skill for ventriloquism using it to defraud someone into thinking they had a supernatural power.

 

[Wirraway]

water dowsing is a fraud that invokes non-existent magic powers and does not work under controlled test conditions. that alone is enough to stay away from it.

 

[puzzleannie]

it is commonly used in the part of the country where I grew up by professionals in that type of business, plumbing, wells, septic etc., and is not regarded as having any supernatural basis, and is not charged for beyond reasonable charges for the underlying plumbing type service, so is not used to defraud

News flash: not every natural phenomenon has been yet proven scientifically or has a scientific explanation for why it works. X-rays and similar uses of radiation phenomena were called frauds before Roentgen demonstrated their use, causes and effects scientifically.

 

[foundthelight]

My Dad had a dowser come by when I was a teen. It worked. He had me try it. It worked. I haven’t tried it since I was about 20. Science cannot currently explain it.

 

[Wirraway]

it is commonly used in the part of the country where I grew up by professionals in that type of business, plumbing, wells, septic etc., and is not regarded as having any supernatural basis, and is not charged for beyond reasonable charges for the underlying plumbing type service, so is not used to defraud

News flash: not every natural phenomenon has been yet proven scientifically or has a scientific explanation for why it works. X-rays and similar uses of radiation phenomena were called frauds before Roentgen demonstrated their use, causes and effects scientifically.

its still a fraud and testing shows that either the dowser or the victim or both are engaged in wishful thinking. there’s evidence for x rays, there’s no evidence for dowsers, just as there was no evidence for N-rays. would you cite a few reputable studies that establish the claims of dowsers?

what’s the subcontractor license for water dowsers in your state?

 

[Wirraway]

My Dad had a dowser come by when I was a teen. It worked. He had me try it. It worked. I haven’t tried it since I was about 20. Science cannot currently explain it.

that would be because there’s nothing to 'splain.

 

[foundthelight]

that would be because there’s nothing to 'splain.

Hey, it worked for me. I have seen it work for others. You are, of course, welcome to your opinion. Just don’t confuse your opinion with fact.

 

[Wirraway]

Hey, it worked for me. I have seen it work for others. You are, of course, welcome to your opinion. Just don’t confuse your opinion with fact.

cause/effect?

water dowsers subjected to controlled tests can’t find water pipes with any reliability greater than guesswork.

what’s the subcontractor license for water witches in your state?

 

[foundthelight]

cause/effect?

water dowsers subjected to controlled tests can’t find water pipes with any reliability greater than guesswork.

what’s the subcontractor license for water witches in your state?

Pipes? The only dowsers I know find water near the surface for hand-dug or hand-driven wells. I have never seen anyone dowse for a pipe.

 

[Wirraway]

Pipes? The only dowsers I know find water near the surface for hand-dug or hand-driven wells. I have never seen anyone dowse for a pipe.

that’s how the tests are done. water is run through buried pipes and the water witch is invited to find the water. the pipes provide a specifically located source of water limited the room for blind guesswork, presumably easy to find because they’re not buried deep.

is there a subcontractor license for dowers in your state???

 

[foundthelight]

that’s how the tests are done. water is run through buried pipes and the water witch is invited to find the water. the pipes provide a specifically located source of water limited the room for blind guesswork, presumably easy to find because they’re not buried deep.

is there a subcontractor license for dowers in your state???

I have told you my experience, you have stated your opinion based on what you have read. Where does that leave us?

Plus, what does a license have to do with anything?

 

[Wirraway]

I have told you my experience, you have stated your opinion based on what you have read. Where does that leave us?

Plus, what does a license have to do with anything?

typically, legitimate professions and practices are licensed by the state to prevent frauds against the public by ensuring a uniform level of training and adherence to industry standards. a hydraulic engineer would have a professional license, so would the contractor who dug the well. a water witch using some Unknown Power (i.e, magic)??? come on. there are dozens of places to go to find out exactly what the doswer is doing – if he’s not intentionally defrauding his customer.

 

[foundthelight]

typically, legitimate professions and practices are licensed by the state to prevent frauds against the public by ensuring a uniform level of training and adherence to industry standards. a hydraulic engineer would have a professional license, so would the contractor who dug the well. a water witch using some Unknown Power (i.e, magic)??? come on. there are dozens of places to go to find out exactly what the doswer is doing – if he’s not intentionally defrauding his customer.

There are frauds and cheats in every profession. Licensing, if it involves a test, only guarantees a minimum amount of book knowledge. It has nothing to do with morality.

 

[Wirraway]

There are frauds and cheats in every profession. Licensing, if it involves a test, only guarantees a minimum amount of book knowledge. It has nothing to do with morality.

deal with an unlicensed attorney or contractor or engineer at your own risk. a water witch??? they’re so far beneath the horizon of legitimacy that there are no licensing provisions.

 

[foundthelight]

deal with an unlicensed attorney or contractor or engineer at your own risk. a water witch??? they’re so far beneath the horizon of legitimacy that there are no licensing provisions.

I did not refer to any unlicensed professional. Look at the news, there are plenty of licensed professionals being charged with fraud. Plus, please stop using the term “water witch”. There is no witchcraft involved that I know of.

 

[Wirraway]

I did not refer to any unlicensed professional. Look at the news, there are plenty of licensed professionals being charged with fraud. Plus, please stop using the term “water witch”. There is no witchcraft involved that I know of.

surely you’re not saying that the unlicensed status of wa I mean dowers is a guarantee of authenticity?

dowsers use some secret force, undescribed by any physical laws and unknown and unknowable to investigation. how is this different from magick?

maybe I should ask what do you consider to be magic?

 

[foundthelight]

surely you’re not saying that the unlicensed status of wa I mean dowers is a guarantee of authenticity?

dowsers use some secret force, undescribed by any physical laws and unknown and unknowable to investigation. how is this different from magick?

maybe I should ask what do you consider to be magic?

I beg your pardon, but you keep trying to draw conclusions based on not what I have said, but rather on what you seem to want me to say. Licensed or unlicensed there are scoundrels everywhere. I know that there are fake dowsers out there. I also know that there are real dowsers out there.

Magic? By your definition all of Christ’s miracles are magic. And please don’t put words in my mouth. I am not comparing dowsers to Christ. I am saying that it is a phenomena that science doesn’t fully understand yet.

 

[puzzleannie]

its still a fraud and testing shows that either the dowser or the victim or both are engaged in wishful thinking. there’s evidence for x rays, there’s no evidence for dowsers, just as there was no evidence for N-rays. would you cite a few reputable studies that establish the claims of dowsers?

what’s the subcontractor license for water dowsers in your state?

the plumber does not need a license to use a snake or roto rooter, either, it is accepted that if he is doing his job, he uses the tools he needs. yeah it might be a fraud of someone was trying to sell you a dowsing tool making all kinds of wild claims, but the guy digging my well is entitled, on my dime, to dig where he thinks best, that’s why I hired him.

don’t be looking for new age under every bush, you’ll get paranoid