Water "witching", should it be avoided?

[gallo]

Ok, this is going to be a little long…

For a few years now, I have been struggling with a dilemma over the use water “witching” (ie, using two metal wires to find water). I have used this (rarely) to find water lines before digging post-holes or footers where there may be a danger of hitting a waterline.

However, a couple years ago, I went to my priest with the growing concern that I was doing something that I had no business doing. After hours of discussion, we decided that there should be caution not to use it for self glorification, but trust that in some way not yet understood God’s natural law is at work. I also found a post under “ask an apologist” in which someone a similar question. The response came down to if the person using it believes that it is scientific even though there was no evidence to support it yet, then it may be used, but with caution. I tried to find it again, but could not probably because the thread was several years old.

Every now and then I get concerned. I have researched this some to see if there is even slight scientific support of it and have come across very little. What I have come across is the relation of negative and positive ions. Water releases negative ions and copper is positive. Like a magnet, opposites attract. Why it takes two rods and how it works to move them, I haven’t a clue.

So I need some advice as to whether I (and others like myself) can proceed with caution or it would be wiser to throw the copper wires in the recycling bin and never look back.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Cristiano]

There is no scientific evidence and or explanation that it works.

If you think that the story of the positive and negative charges would move to neutralize each others, then you would see that you need to run a lot of current in your Cu wires to be able to detect anything and that current would probably kill you by sending your heart in fibrillation. It takes on 100mA to kill a person (voltage does not matter).

 

[KarenNC]

So I need some advice as to whether I (and others like myself) can proceed with caution or it would be wiser to throw the copper wires in the recycling bin and never look back…

You may want to investigate the following information further:

canadiandowsers.org/Article_Susan2.html

"Religious Leaders Support Dowsing

From the 17th century on, many priests wrote about the use of dowsing for healing and helping purposes. These include: Jesuit Father Kircher, Jacques Le Royer and Abbé de Vallemont. Abbé Alexis Mermet, a country priest, wrote the Principles and Practice of Radiesthesia in 1935. In Quebec in the 1960’s, a catholic bishop, Edouard Jetté, was a well-known dowser and wrote a book titled Au Seuil du Subconscient.

The Vatican endorsed dowsing in a letter written in May 1935 by Mgr Eugene Tisserand, Prefect of the Vatican Library, to Monsieur Delattre, Secretary General of the Society ‘Amis de la Radiesthesie’. [In 1929, priest Alexis Bouly gave the name of “Radiesthesia” to describe dowsing phenomena, from the Latin “radius” (rays) and the Greek “aisthêsis” (feeling).] He wrote: “I was required to attend an audience of the Sovereign Pontiff for the purpose of explaining to Him personally the nature of the researches to which the members of your Association are dedicated, and to tell His Holiness of your wish to have for the officers of your Association, and for its activities, the Apostolic Blessing. The Holy Father was touched by the sentiments expressed in your letter, and has charged me to communicate to you His Paternal Blessing.” 2

The Vatican also used dowsing when the engineer Czepl, a leading Austrian dowser, was invited to assist, as a dowser, in planning a restoration of the Cathedral of St. Peter. 3

Many other religious leaders have used dowsing to benefit humanity. “I have met doctors, pastors, missionaries, and even evangelists who use the rod or pendulum and believe they have received this gift from God.” Dr. Kurt Koch 4 "

 

[gallo]

I found the link to the CA post.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=122703&highlight=water+dowsing

Cristiano, I don’t profess to be scientifically literate and if we would converse maybe even a little I may end up proving myself quite unintelligent, however, how would you say that it appears to “work”? What causes it? I can usually come within a foot or two of the line and I’ve heard of others who can p(name removed by moderator)oint it exactly. How does this happen? I don’t believe in random chance, BTW.

KarenNC, I’m having a little trouble verifying the Vatican endorsement of dowsing in the link and quote that you posted. I realize I haven’t given it much time, but is there any other references that you have. Possibly from the Vatican site itself?

 

[THutch04]

Ok, I know absolutely nothing about this, so I’m just going to ask: why would it be wrong? I’m honestly just genuinely curious, because I don’t know anything about it.

 

[Blackbog]

Catechism 2116 urges us to reject all forms of divination, however the key is to figure out what the Catechism means by divination. All listed forms in this paragraph have as their immediate end knowledge of the future, and it makes a point of how they conceal a desire for power over time.

As best I can tell, using “divining” rods is not divination in this context. For all you know, there is some sort of material phenomenon to account for why dowsing seems to work. At the very worst, you are simply wasting your time. Personally, I don’t see any sin here.

 

[gallo]

Ok, I know absolutely nothing about this, so I’m just going to ask: why would it be wrong? I’m honestly just genuinely curious, because I don’t know anything about it.

It is in question because there is no known scientific support for it and its use is thought to stem from pagan religions which utilized witchcraft. It is supposed to be comparable to ouji (sp?) boards and paranormal “tools” influenced by spirits other than the Triune God.
This is what keeps popping into my head whenever I think about using it.

On the other hand, there are natural occurrences that people may have had a similar question over at the advent of a tool that utilizes them because there was no known evidence for it. A compass, barometer, or thermometer for examples. We now know that there is a magnetic pull from the north so a compass is legitimate and pressure and temperature has an effect on certain liquids.

So the question is: what does the using of this “tool” utilize? Is it natural forces or spiritual forces. If natural, I can set my mind at ease. If spiritual, at the least I need to get to confession.

Here is another link from CA this Rock. It’s the 5th question down. This one opposes it.
catholic.com/thisrock/1993/9308qq.asp

 

[KarenNC]

KarenNC, I’m having a little trouble verifying the Vatican endorsement of dowsing in the link and quote that you posted. I realize I haven’t given it much time, but is there any other references that you have. Possibly from the Vatican site itself?

Sorry, no. It’s just something I came across googling, which is why I suggested you check further into it. Perhaps you could contact the person who put up the original page and ask for her sources?

 

[Cristiano]

Cristiano, I don’t profess to be scientifically literate and if we would converse maybe even a little I may end up proving myself quite unintelligent, however, how would you say that it appears to “work”? What causes it? I can usually come within a foot or two of the line and I’ve heard of others who can p(name removed by moderator)oint it exactly. How does this happen? I don’t believe in random chance, BTW.

1- The lack of a scientific explanation does not mean that something does not happen. Science is not really the truthful description of an event but the simplest and most logical explanation.

2- It is possible to confuse cause and effect with correlation of events. Two things that happen at the same time could be connected by the same cause and the cause does not have to be withing one degree of proximity.

3- Random chance is acceptable at least because of our limited knowledge and intelligence. You can also find apparently logic patterns in random events. The book “INNUMERACY: MATHEMATICAL ILLITERACY AND ITS CONSEQUENCES” will give you a good idea of what I am talking. It is a book that does not need any math knowledge beyond middle school.

4- I will believe in this kind of events when I will see them documented/evaluated in a scientific manner. That refers to the scientific procedure of collecting data, and not giving an explanation.

5- If a person is willing to understand what is the proper thing to do, then this person cannot prove himself “unintelligent”. You are addressing your religious concerns through reason and faith like a good Catholic should do. Please, you should also try to remember that every “intelligent” person can have his “idiot” moment.

 

[Cristiano]

Please, you should also try to remember that every “intelligent” person can have his “idiot” moment.

When I said that I was not referring to you but at my experience with a lot of people with Ph.D.s

I have quite a few of those moments myself, and you can easily verify that with my family members.

 

[cheddarsox]

This practice is known as dowsing. It has nothing to do with witchcraft. Some people are able to sense water, cables, minerals underground. Their senses, and nervous system cause the stick(s) they carry to move. While the process is not fully understood, no spirits are called upon or anything else.

While I guess it could be seen as “divining”, it is no more so than me knowing rain is coming because my arthritic toe hurts or I can “smell” it on the wind.

It is a natural gift that some people have, and that others learn. Nothing spooky about it.

 

[Deo_Volente]

Grace & Peace!

In the matter of dowsing and the inexplicable, I would suggest you keep in mind that the church made a distinction very early on between what it called “natural magic” and magic which dealt with demonic forces. Natural magic involved magnetism, or knowing the healing properties of plants and herbs, for instance (though it also involved the belief in sympathies between the natural and celestial worlds and the science of harmonizing those sympathies–for an example of this science at work, see Botticelli’s painting “Primavera”).

For the most part, the church did not condemn “natural magic” and in many cases, speculations in natural magic formed the basis for various branches of science.

And I guess what I’m trying to say is this–the church is not anxious to discover the devil in every detail. Or, to put it another way, it does not say that because something is inexplicable, it is therefore diabolical. There are many mysteries in this world–and thank God for them! We are increasingly prey to a worldview which sees the universe as a series of data or facts to be explained or mastered. But creation is an expression of a deep deep mystery of love. The realm of fact and data can penetrate this mystery only so far. As Shakespeare wrote, “There are more things in heaven and on earth than are dreamt of in your philosophy.” God be praised!

Under the Mercy,
Mark

Deo Gratias!

 

[THutch04]

Thank you for that explanation! In my (obviously uneducated) opinion, it seems like all you’re doing is using two metal rods to see if you can find water. You’re not invoking any spirits in order to do this. I don’t see a problem with it.

 

[rwoehmke]

Just as there are some people who are truly psychic who do not actively seek to know the future, there are also people who can dowse. Some use sticks, some a forked branch, some metal rods. I don’t think it has anything to do with the instrument. For some unknown reason certain individuals are gifted with some sort of “sixth” sense without ever dealing with the occult or deciding they are going to seek a particular gift when they don’t have it. Persons who have a genuine gift usually become aware of it and can’t explain why they have it. It just is. I do know of one thoroughly Catholic family where one or more women in each of three generations appear to be gifted with some psychic awareness by which they know things without even trying to do so. The knowledge just pops into their minds. For them it is more of a burden than a gift because they cannot select and learn things they do not want to pass on. Of course they are not always sure that what they know will happen and the truth usually comes out after the fact. Some might call it sort of deja vue.

 

[kage_ar]

Seems easier just to dial 1-800- Dig Safe or whatever your regions locates group advertises…

 

[CathCentrist]

This practice is known as dowsing. It has nothing to do with witchcraft. Some people are able to sense water, cables, minerals underground. Their senses, and nervous system cause the stick(s) they carry to move. While the process is not fully understood, no spirits are called upon or anything else.

While I guess it could be seen as “divining”, it is no more so than me knowing rain is coming because my arthritic toe hurts or I can “smell” it on the wind.

It is a natural gift that some people have, and that others learn. Nothing spooky about it.

I agree. I am sensitive to power lines and towers and “feel” them when I drive past them. MAybe I should reject this “gift” in case its from the devil

 

[gallo]

I agree. I am sensitive to power lines and towers and “feel” them when I drive past them. MAybe I should reject this “gift” in case its from the devil

Electrical lines emit a radiation. Some animals such as cats and sharks can sense this radiation so it’s up to the bodies sensitivity. I guess that’s the way with the water, also.
I’m that way with many types of cell phones. The microwaves emitted make my head hurt even when I may be near someone else using one.