Waving of the Soseppa

  • Thread starter Thread starter Elvis_George
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

Elvis_George

Guest
Shlomo to all!
So I was watching a Jacobite Qurbana and I saw the bishop waving the Soseppa (which is a piece of clothing used to cover the chalice.)


Do any of you guys know what this represents? Is this used by the Maronites or is it a rather late Antiochian tradition? Is it a Byzantine tradition? I’ve heard that the West Syriac Tradition has been Hellenized, with the bells being one sign of Hellenization. Does Byzantine tradition also have such a practice? In the East Syriac Tradition, the priest does cover the sacred mysteries with a Soseppa and also folds the Soseppa around the sacred mysteries but I’ve never seen the Soseppa being waved or anything.
I have also seen the Syriac Catholic church have the practice (although highly latinised)


And the Syro Malankara church (almost unscathed from Latinisation thanks be to God)


I don’t if the Maronite church has the practice.
 
I don’t think the Maronites use it. I’ll have to watch Abouna more closely when we are able to attend Qurbono once more.

I can’t speak for all Byzantines, but the Melkites at least do this. They have adapted a few Antiochean traditions into the Byzantine Liturgy, so it may be unique to the Melkites, but I’m pretty sure all the Byzantine traditions do this. If memory serves me correctly, it’s supposed to symbolize the descent of the Holy Spirit upon the gifts.
 
This is seen in the Byzantine tradition as well. The priest waves the cloth over the gifts while the Creed is sung. I have heard several reasons, from representing the faith of the Church Fathers, to the movement of the Holy Spirit.

Fr. Thomas Loya told me it once had the practical use of keeping flies away from the gifts!
 
Sorrow. “Abouna” is the Arabic word for “Father”. It’s also represents the extent of my knowledge of Arabic. 😂
 
do have a clip of just the time the priest does that? I don’t rlly now the Byzantine Holy Liturgy that’s why 😦
 
Elvis_George said:
Do any of you guys know what this represents? Is this used by the Maronites or is it a rather late Antiochian tradition?
Click to expand...
Is this at the epiclesis (I didn’t watch much of the video)? It represents the descent of the Holy Spirit on the offering.

Maronites presently do this only during the signing of the chalice on Great Friday. The priest then blesses the congregation with it.

Originally the subdeacons would flutter the large curtain veil. Then it was reduced to a smaller veil that they held and fluttered over the head of the priest. Later it was a smaller chalice veil like this that only the priest fluttered. Now, the priest only flutters his hands over the chalice.

Maybe in the next Qurbono rubrics the Holy Spirit will be relegated to the priest fluttering his pinkies or something…
 
Last edited:
XXI_4 said:
Maybe in the next Qurbono rubrics the Holy Spirit will be relegated to the priest fluttering his pinkies or something…
Click to expand...
God save us from any more revisions and recensions at this moment. For goodness’ sake, give the faithful a chance to adjust to one revision before completely redoing things once more.

That being said, I’m cautiously optimistic that any future revisions will be more along the lines of authentic restorations. But perhaps that is my own naivete talking…
 
Last edited:
Tried showing videos here but the dumb Facebook links aren’t working…
 
Last edited:
No the epiclesis is much later. This occurs right after peace. In the East Syriac Tradition the priest takes the Soseppa,folds it, and arranges it around the sacred mysteries, symbolising Jesus being buried in the tomb. This occurs after the peace, just like in the Antiochian tradition,and the prayer the server says is also very similair. This is one of the reason why adding an Institution Narrative in the Anaphora of Mar Addai and Mari was a mistake cuz this messes all the timings up
 
Then can you tell me when the Nicene Creed is said during a Byzantine Liturgy?
 

Turns out, it’s not during the Creed. And, as you can see, the deacon does the “fluttering” while the priest (or, in this case, the bishop) continues with the prayers.
 
In the Byzantine Tradition, the cloth that @Lobster_Johnson described is called the aer.
 
at what time does this occur? (like the minutes and seconds in this video. The link you sent me was the whole liturgy)
 
Here’s the Divine Liturgy for March 29 at the Ukrainian Catholic Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception in Philadelphia PA (start at 59:20 if you just want to see the Creed):

 
Lobster_Johnson said:
Fr. Thomas Loya told me it once had the practical use of keeping flies away from the gifts!
Click to expand...
so many things, East and west, have such sources to which meaning was later added (altar rails, iconostasis, this, waving the cherubikon, adding Zeon to the Cup, and probably many I’ve never heard . . .)
 
Phillip_Rolfes said:
I don’t think the Maronites use it. I’ll have to watch Abouna more closely when we are able to attend Qurbono once more.
Click to expand...
No, I’m not really joining this thread, but had to say that the OP’s third video actually brought tears to my eyes. It’s been that long since I’ve heard it, and the bonus is that it was done in Syriac!!!

Anyway, it’s the third prayer of the Anaphora, called the Prayer of the Raising of the Veil (or simply the Prayer of the Veil), and yes, the Maronites had it. A result of the 16th Century latinizations was that the rubrics became a bit less ostentatious than those maintained by the SO (and Syro-Malankara), but there were rubrics nonetheless, including the blessing of the congregation with the veil during the Pauline Greeting.

BTW, the fluttering of hands was at the Epiklesis.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top