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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
I think the BBC and Muslims would be in a world of hurt, if Jesus did not teach his followers to Love our enemies.
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MartinJordan
Guest
As far as I can see in the OT, God the Father didn’t say “Hate your enemies” either:newidea:I think the BBC and Muslims would be in a world of hurt, if Jesus did not teach his followers to Love our enemies.
In Leviticus 19:18 the closest you could get was “Love your neighbor”, there was no concluding “hate your enemy”. It was only the Scribes who seemed to voice that in.
St. Thomas Aquinas : True victory is won by the conversion of our enemies, rather than their destruction.
MJ
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Ladervijd
Guest
Great.there doesn’t seem to be one thing in here that makes any sense.
Certainly didn’t mean to promote, nor contribute to escalation of violence, nor overally justify such.
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
The commandment states ; Thou shalt not kill. Jesus tells his followers if you hate your brother, you have committed murder.
If God had told me to “kill the infidels”? I would have to question his killing of infidels, just as Moses interceded the killing of the disobedient after the Exodus, when Moses claimed to Abrahams promised covenant. Why would God tell anyone to “kill the infidels”? when God is the one who created these?
Once more, Jesus teaches us, “If they strike you on the cheek, offer them the other one”. Man it takes an act of God working in Christians in order to live as Christians in the world. The Saints have proven this can be done “always” in Jesus Christ who lives in us as the body of Christ.
“Suffer for those who persecute you” is the clarian call of the Catholic Saints.
Without Love, we can do nothing.
Hey were did you get that light bulb head thing? I want one?
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BlindManWalking
Guest
Not killing, but murder. Huge difference actually.The commandment states ; Thou shalt not kill. Jesus tells his followers if you hate your brother, you have committed murder.
If God had told me to “kill the infidels”? I would have to question his killing of infidels, just as Moses interceded the killing of the disobedient after the Exodus, when Moses claimed to Abrahams promised covenant. Why would God tell anyone to “kill the infidels”? when God is the one who created these?
Once more, Jesus teaches us, “If they strike you on the cheek, offer them the other one”. Man it takes an act of God working in Christians in order to live as Christians in the world. The Saints have proven this can be done “always” in Jesus Christ who lives in us as the body of Christ.
“Suffer for those who persecute you” is the clarian call of the Catholic Saints.
Hey were did you get that light bulb head thing? I want one?
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Thou shall not kill, is the text, yet the interpretation of the law is not to murder “context”, “context”.
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beehumble
Guest
To a mystic Jesus once reportedly said,"
“This is the time of Mercy so that all might come to repentance; I have an eternity to punish.”
And mystics have reported on that punishment - on the horrible sufferings of hell.
So woe to those who mock Jesus and His Church and His people, should they not repent their time will come, they will pay their dues.
God bless you.
“This is the time of Mercy so that all might come to repentance; I have an eternity to punish.”
And mystics have reported on that punishment - on the horrible sufferings of hell.
So woe to those who mock Jesus and His Church and His people, should they not repent their time will come, they will pay their dues.
God bless you.
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BlindManWalking
Guest
The text is actually thou shall not murder. Strong’s word 7523. It’s very plainly murder and the renderings of “kill” are unfortunately out of context with modern understanding.
The Hebrew language has different words for the action, just as we do. The Hebrew word implies murder and should be translated as such or else we get stupid doctrines of total pacifism which have no biblical basis.
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LemonAndLime
Guest
I just think the BBC are being smart. If you mock Jesus then Christians do get angry, but a lot of people can laugh about it. In many parts of the Muslim world however, it’s not that they can’t take a joke but unlike for example with Catholics, they have actual rules about how you treat the name and image of Muhammed. We don’t believe that drawing Jesus is blasphemy for example (no matter how you do it). Also, regardless of whether you believe they’re justified, mocking Islam = protests. You can’t control the actions of others so you have to control your own - so to avoid causing a riot, just don’t tip the boat.
My :twocents:.
My :twocents:.
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Here see for yourself;
Exodus 20:13 You shall not kill.
Here is Jesus speaking and interpreting the commandment “you shall not kill”.
Matthew 5:21“You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’* 22* But I say to you, whoever is angry* with his brother will be liable to judgment,
I am not debating the interpretation of thou shall not kill, to be thou shall not murder. We agree here. But some text still maintain the translation of “you shall not kill”.
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BlindManWalking
Guest
I could care less about poor translation done with certain dubious intent.
The language, the actual text (not the translation), says murder.
Here: interlinearbible.org/matthew/5.htm
Jesus ain’t “interpreting” anything. He’s speaking in plain language. We’ve already established the Hebrew concept, now look at the Greek, another language specific to the point of no excuse.
The Greek rendering is… tada! Murder.
Not killing. This smacks of a dubious translator intent, as if God didn’t know the correct word to use. The only other option is historical context, though no excuse. The word is very clearly murder and should be very clearly translated as such.
This is analogous to the rendering of “corn” instead of “wheat” when the Apostles picked it in the fields and were accused by the Pharisees.
It was not corn as we know maize. It was wheat.
I understand this, but, someone who was reading might think that somehow the Apostles were munching on actual maize. They weren’t. Just like the rendering of killing instead of murder is incorrect to today’s understanding.
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
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Moro_Rock
Guest
On the other hand Mock Jesus and you’re likely to wake up in hell when you die .
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Kouyate42
Guest
I agree. Mocking the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) is also a grave sin which will lead to the fires of the Hellfire.
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BlindManWalking
Guest
*resisting the temptation… here.
According to you, the Martyrs of Cordoba are in Hell.
Good luck convincing us of that ma’am.
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Kouyate42
Guest
It’s part of Islamic law that the Holy Prophet (saw) is so revered, any mockery of his name is to be punished.
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BlindManWalking
Guest
So you are then claiming that 1) the Christian Martyrs of Cordoba “deserved” to be killed and 2) they are in Hell
Am I understanding you correctly?
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Kouyate42
Guest
I am of the opinion that no earthly court or judicial system has the power to allow death for blasphemy, but rather lesser punishments are to be given.
As to no 2, this is what the Qur’an teaches.
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BlindManWalking
Guest
Your opinion contradicts hadith to a level of ridiculousness, as the Quran is silent on this matter in explicit terms.
#2- Cool, another reason for me to warm myself with its contents.
The hilarious thing about this little exchange is I’ll likely end up with an infraction for uncharitable posts while you remain unscathed for saying martyrs are in Hell.
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Kouyate42
Guest
Eh, I’ll just leave this right here:Your opinion contradicts hadith to a level of ridiculousness, as the Quran is silent on this matter in explicit terms.
#2- Cool, another reason for me to warm myself with its contents.
The hilarious thing about this little exchange is I’ll likely end up with an infraction for uncharitable posts while you remain unscathed for saying martyrs are in Hell.
The Noble Qur'an:
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