We are all part of one faith

[peary]

Hello there. I reject many Catholic ideals. I reject many Protestant ideals. I have no dogma. I do not belong to any denomination.

then why are you here?

Some may call me a Christian; some may call me a neopagan; some may call me an atheist. I do not care, but I do believe that Jesus was divinely inspired. Whether this was because of God’s nature or God’s will, I do not know, and neither do you. I believe Jesus is an important step to being a better person.

Good for you.

Most here are Catholic, and yet they belong to the same Church as the Protestants. As the Anabaptists. As the Anglicans. Stop the nonsense. Stop the fighting. We are all part of the Universal Church, are we not?

No, protestants reject Christ’s Church. They went their merry way and started their own with their own leaders.

Even if your neighbor does not believe in Jesus, is he not a creation of God? All believe they are created by God. Some say they have been created by a Greek god, some a Hindu god, some the Abrahamic god, some by nature. I don’t think it matters much what we call God, He is the goodness in the world. What would He care?

Your point?

So when you look at another being, no matter who they are, think to yourself: they have been created by God. They are here for a reason. Don’t be angry with them, don’t fight with them, whether it’s because of religion, or politics, or money.

OK, Mom.

It is understandable that you are angry at times; anger is something that God gave us. But do not fight unless you have to. Do not think you have to until you are absolutely sure. Remember that no matter what happens, God will prevail, whether you call Him God, or Thor, or Brahma, or Allah.

Yes, Mom.

When you fight with others, are you not turning your back on God? After all, He is the goodness of the world.

What do you consider ‘fighting’? Verbal disagreements are not ‘fighting’. They are verbal disagreements. Now, if it gets physical, then I’d entertain your way of looking at things.

 

[dzheremi]

I’m glad there are at least some people here who stand up to this syncretist garbage. No, we are NOT all one faith. Would that we were! If you were a Catholic, or Orthodox, or of any church with any sort of serious outlook, it would not be necessary to churn out such bland platitudes. Jesus “was divinely inspired”? Excuse me? No, no…Jesus IS the Son of God, the Incarnate Word, the Redeemer of all mankind!

Get away from that, and you get further away from being of “one faith” with each new statement. What you are preaching here, is to put it bluntly (with apologies to the board’s automatic censor), complete ********.

 

[JonNC]

No, protestants reject Christ’s Church. They went their merry way and started their own with their own leaders.

Even your Catechism refutes this.

"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, **whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”**276

Jon

 

[Lib_Christian]

Used to be, now LCMS. And yes, I was aware of the open communion Churches, though it is short of true unity. Thanks for the clarification.

JOn

Jon, I understand. I do think MO synod leaves it up to the pastors now if I’m not mistaken. Correct me if I’m wrong. But I recently read that. And I looked at my local LCMS website and it says at this particular church, as long as you believe in the RP, visitors are welcome to the Communion rail to partake, and common cup, individual cups and grape juice are available. YMMV.

 

[LilyM]

If Jesus is leading you to tell whatever there will be no fighting. We should always use our words carefully.

Jesus Himself said He came to bring not peace but a sword, and that family members would be set one against the other because of Him. Not to mention that the world would hate Him, and we who follow Him as well! OF course where He is there will be fighting, because He was born to be a sign of contradiction.

He Himself, who always chose His words with utmost care, and utmost good will and good intent, fought vigorously, verbally at least, against the Pharisees who tried to trap Him, and phyiscally as well, in casting the moneychangers out of the Temple, no? Or do you not count the fact that He was arrested, tried, beaten, crowned with thorns and crucified as constituting ‘fighting’?

 

[peary]

Even your Catechism refutes this.

Jon

Uh, no Jon, it doesn’t.

PART ONE
THE PROFESSION OF FAITH
SECTION TWO
THE PROFESSION OF THE CHRISTIAN FAITH

CHAPTER THREE
I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY SPIRIT

ARTICLE 9
“I BELIEVE IN THE HOLY CATHOLIC CHURCH”

Paragraph 3. The Church Is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic

**811 “This is the sole Church of Christ, which in the Creed we profess to be one, holy, catholic and apostolic.” These four characteristics, inseparably linked with each other, indicate essential features of the Church and her mission. The Church does not possess them of herself; it is Christ who, through the Holy Spirit, makes his Church one, holy, catholic, and apostolic, and it is he who calls her to realize each of these qualities.

812 Only faith can recognize that the Church possesses these properties from her divine source. **

You are probably referring to…

**818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.” **

and…

**819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.” **

But the Catechism ALSO points out…

**846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

“Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.”( Lumen Gentium 14; cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5.)

 

[wisdomseeker]

Even your Catechism refutes this.

Quote:
"Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276

Jon

The Pope has written a letter to the lutheran church saying that their communion is not the same as the Communion of the CC.

 

[firstmode]

peary:
Peary, I do not agree with the OP at all, but you are so sarcastic and snide in all of your responses. Every time you post on a thread you come across exhibiting a very harmful personality.

I hope it is all because you are mis-represented by the way you type, I really do.

 

[JonNC]

=peary;6118218]Uh, no Jon, it doesn’t.

818

“However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

“Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.”( *Lumen Gentium *14; cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5.)

Where does any of this say we have rejected Christ’s Church? Afterall, it says we cannot be charged with the sin of separation, having been born into our communions. And, our communions are used by the Spirit to bring salvation to us.

If, as you say, the terms mean the same as yours, certainly the tone is quite different.

Jon

 

[peary]

Where does any of this say we have rejected Christ’s Church? Afterall, it says we cannot be charged with the sin of separation, having been born into our communions. And, our communions are used by the Spirit to bring salvation to us.

If, as you say, the terms mean the same as yours, certainly the tone is quite different.

Jon

“Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. HENCE THEY COULD NOT BE SAVED WHO, KNOWING THAT THE CATHOLIC CHURCH WAS FOUNDED AS NECESSARY BY GOD THROUGH CHRIST, WOULD REFUSE EITHER TO ENTER INTO IT OR TO REMAIN IN IT.”(Lumen Gentium 14; cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5.)

 

[peary]

*Originally Posted by *JonNC
Where does any of this say we have rejected Christ’s Church? Afterall, it says we cannot be charged with the sin of separation, having been born into our communions. And, our communions are used by the Spirit to bring salvation to us.

**Yes, because the Body of Christ is divided due to the fact that your denominations rejected the Church as the means of salvation. Now, because you may have a valid Baptism does make it possible for you to share in the grace and the spiritual works of the Church, and that you are a member of the Body of Christ, though imperfectly, and separated from the Church and the Body of Christ.

You reject the Eucharist Who is the lifeblood of the Church. That is what is of great concern.**

 

[wisdomseeker]

*Originally Posted by *JonNC
Where does any of this say we have rejected Christ’s Church? Afterall, it says we cannot be charged with the sin of separation, having been born into our communions. And, our communions are used by the Spirit to bring salvation to us.

Yes, because the Body of Christ is divided due to the fact that your denominations rejected the Church as the means of salvation. Now, because you may have a valid Baptism does make it possible for you to share in the grace and the spiritual works of the Church, and that you are a member of the Body of Christ, though imperfectly, and separated from the Church and the Body of Christ.

You reject the Eucharist Who is the lifeblood of the Church. That is what is of great concern.

Plus, i was listen to John Salsa explanation on the Eucharist. he says that yes man become a part of the Church through Baptism but if he refuses to enter the Church, he is no longer part of the Covenant of God. Salsa has a great book out on the Eucharistia.

 

[peary]

Plus, i was listen to John Salsa explanation on the Eucharist. he says that yes man become a part of the Church through Baptism but if he refuses to enter the Church, he is no longer part of the Covenant of God. Salsa has a great book out on the Eucharistia.

Wow, Salsa has some strong theology there. I would hope that the mercy of God would extend to all of the validly baptized, no matter what denomination and that they may attain salvation. Most never question their religious upbringing in other denominations. Most seem indifferent to the claims of the Catholic Church.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Wow, Salsa has some strong theology there. I would hope that the mercy of God would extend to all of the validly baptized, no matter what denomination and that they may attain salvation. Most never question their religious upbringing in other denominations. Most seem indifferent to the claims of the Catholic Church.

No. most dont want to hear the Truth. they are afraid to know the Truth. that is different. they refuse to hear. that is exactly what happened to the Pharisees. they just refused to hear. refusal to hear is no excuse.

i just had a discussion with a friend who is a Presbyterian. she is the one who wants to call the shots. she refuses to hear anything about the CC. she regards the Church is just another denomination with no authority whatsoever. she tells me what i should say and what i should not say. something is wrong here. something is happening, somehow the CC is letting people believing in something that is not true. there is confusion now and days what the CC is indeed. as long this goes on more people will be lead ashtray without even thinking that it is supposed to be One Church and not many.

Peace.

 

[JonNC]

*=peary;6119426]

Yes, because the Body of Christ is divided*
This is most certainly true

due to the fact that your denominations rejected the Church as the means of salvation.

And your own catechism states that these is enough blame to go around. I will accept my share as a Christian, and I respond to His grace by recognizing the Holy Spirit in you.
By the way, not sure what you mean by my “denominations”. I’m just a member of the Lutheran confession.

Now, because you may have a valid Baptism does

make it possible for you to share in the grace and the spiritual works of the Church, and that you are a member of the Body of Christ, though imperfectly, and separated from the Church and the Body of Christ.
And I recognize the same in you.

You reject the Eucharist Who is the lifeblood of the Church. That is what is of great concern.

**
Please find a quote where I reject the Eucharist!
Cardinal Ratzinger does not even accuse Lutherans of this!

I count among the most important results of the ecumenical dialogues the insight that the issue of the eucharist cannot be narrowed to the problem of ‘validity.’ Even a theology oriented to the concept of succession, such as that which holds in the Catholic and in the Orthodox church, need not in any way deny the salvation-granting presence of the Lord [Heilschaffende Gegenwart des Herrn] in a Lutheran [evangelische] Lord’s Supper.

Jon

 

[JonNC]

Plus, i was listen to John Salsa explanation on the Eucharist. he says that yes man become a part of the Church through Baptism but if he refuses to enter the Church, he is no longer part of the Covenant of God. Salsa has a great book out on the Eucharistia.

Is Mr. Salsa a member of the Magisterium, or is this his personal interpretation?

Jon

 

[AmericanJosiah]

.

IMHO, all Christians ARE of one faith. That faith is in Christ.

We are not all of one creed (and never have been). We have not agreed on exactly what corpus of beliefs must be accepted as such (not more, not less) - unless The Nicene Creed is that, we have a “status” disagreement. And the world’s current 2.1 billion Christians (and of course the 4 billion or so brothers and sisters now in heaven) are not in full agreement on every issue of doctrine or ethics - and we never have been. So there is a disagreement on these issues.

.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Is Mr. Salsa a member of the Magisterium, or is this his personal interpretation?

Jon

he speaks the Truth of the CC. as i mentioned before the Pope has written a letter to the luttheran church telling them that the Communion in their congregation is not the same as the Eucharist in the CC. what you have is simbolic and not the True Body and Blood of Christ. sorry, but it is the reality. i know that the bishop of te lutheran congregation got mad. but so what the Truth must be told wihtout the fear that someone is going to be mad about it.

Peace.

 

[JonNC]

he speaks the Truth of the CC. as i mentioned before the Pope has written a letter to the luttheran church telling them that the Communion in their congregation is not the same as the Eucharist in the CC. what you have is simbolic and not the True Body and Blood of Christ. sorry, but it is the reality. i know that the bishop of te lutheran congregation got mad. but so what the Truth must be told wihtout the fear that someone is going to be mad about it.

Peace.

That the Catholic Church and Lutherans have an asymmetrical opinion of each other’s Eucharist - that we believe that yours is as valid as ours, but you see yours as valid but ours as not - is one of the sad divisions we have. While we hope and pray that one day you will see the real presence of Christ which is truly in our Eucharist, that’s not to say we need you to for it to be so.
I am not particularly offended, much less moved, that you don’t. After all, you are professing the teachings of your communion, and I would not expect or encourage you to do otherwise. Nonetheless, I will continue to recognize not only the Holy Spirit in you and the Catholic Church, but also His real presence in your Eucharist. and may you be blessed by it.

Jon

BTW, I see your Salsa, and offer you one USCCB document.
usccb.org/seia/koinonia.shtml

 

[captainmike]

Hello there. I reject many Catholic ideals. I reject many Protestant ideals. I have no dogma. I do not belong to any denomination.

Some may call me a Christian; some may call me a neopagan; some may call me an atheist. I do not care, but I do believe that Jesus was divinely inspired. Whether this was because of God’s nature or God’s will, I do not know, and neither do you. I believe Jesus is an important step to being a better person.

Most here are Catholic, and yet they belong to the same Church as the Protestants. As the Anabaptists. As the Anglicans. Stop the nonsense. Stop the fighting. We are all part of the Universal Church, are we not?

Even if your neighbor does not believe in Jesus, is he not a creation of God? All believe they are created by God. Some say they have been created by a Greek god, some a Hindu god, some the Abrahamic god, some by nature. I don’t think it matters much what we call God, He is the goodness in the world. What would He care?

So when you look at another being, no matter who they are, think to yourself: they have been created by God. They are here for a reason. Don’t be angry with them, don’t fight with them, whether it’s because of religion, or politics, or money.

It is understandable that you are angry at times; anger is something that God gave us. But do not fight unless you have to. Do not think you have to until you are absolutely sure. Remember that no matter what happens, God will prevail, whether you call Him God, or Thor, or Brahma, or Allah.

When you fight with others, are you not turning your back on God? After all, He is the goodness of the world.

There are two types of people in the world, those who proclaim Jesus Christ as God, and those who do not. Those of us who do must never tire of proclaiming that he is Lord and attempting to do this will. In doing so, we will sometimes create conflict (though not physical violence–we are not jihadists, after all). As our Lord said in Matthew 10:34: “I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword.” In other words, in doing his will, others may not like it (in fact, in other verses, Christ assures that the world will “hate” us because of him).

Those who put “Coexist” bumper stickers on thier car are living in a fantasy world. The various religions are not all the same, and they are not all equally valid. There is only one way to the Father–Jesus Christ.