We Are Called to Suffer

  • Thread starter Thread starter elizabeth22
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
E

elizabeth22

Guest
My husband and I currently attend Mass regularly at a pretty small parish. We’ve been there about five years and as we’ve gotten to know the priest better, we’re having extreme difficulties dealing with his handling of parish matters. To start with, he is extremely liberal and we are not the only ones that recognize this. I’ve seen him drunk and tell jokes that aren’t the least bit “proper” for a priest to be repeating. During the '08 elections he and I got into a tiff regarding abortion. I said that abortion is a grave evil and he said I needed lessons in moral theology. I’ve requested that our priest pray for the unborn during the Mass and he refuses. These are just a few examples. I’ve been talking to a friend in the parish about leaving and she says we are all called to suffer, and that this is my husband and I being called to suffer for the church. I know all about redemptive suffering, but do I have to be miserable at Mass, plus listen to a priest that IMHO doesn’t act in a holy manner? I guess I would just like to hear some opinions on this, because it is really causing me a great deal of anguish.
 
I don’t feel as if I am called to suffer. I think that’s a trite phrase that encourages passivity.

Suffering is inevitable in life, and some people seem to get way more unequal shares, but I don’t consider it particularly a Christian calling. Hopefully, though, Christ strengthens us in the face of suffering.

If you dislike this priest so much, maybe a different parish might be near by?
 
Yes, we have a couple others nearby. I know we are not to ask for suffering, but to accept what comes along. I tend to think however, that this parish thing does not fall into the redemptive suffering category.
 
elizabeth22 said:
My husband and I currently attend Mass regularly at a pretty small parish. We’ve been there about five years and as we’ve gotten to know the priest better, we’re having extreme difficulties dealing with his handling of parish matters. To start with, he is extremely liberal and we are not the only ones that recognize this. I’ve seen him drunk and tell jokes that aren’t the least bit “proper” for a priest to be repeating. During the '08 elections he and I got into a tiff regarding abortion. I said that abortion is a grave evil and he said I needed lessons in moral theology. I’ve requested that our priest pray for the unborn during the Mass and he refuses. These are just a few examples. I’ve been talking to a friend in the parish about leaving and she says we are all called to suffer, and that this is my husband and I being called to suffer for the church. I know all about redemptive suffering, but do I have to be miserable at Mass, plus listen to a priest that IMHO doesn’t act in a holy manner? I guess I would just like to hear some opinions on this, because it is really causing me a great deal of anguish.
Click to expand...
I would look for a new parish.
 
Sounds like your priest has a drinking problem. I think you can contact the bishop about that so he can sober up.
 
Pray for him, and know you go to Mass for Jesus, not the experience.
 
We are called to suffer but not to abuse ourselves (or allow ourselves to be spiritually abused without necessity). We’ve had some very bad priests in my own diocese – so many that a large group of the faithful has fully accepted the fact that we’re going to have to simply move from parish to parish, as bad priests replace good ones and the good ones move elsewhere. We’re living through a difficult time in the Church and society and in my opinion, it’s important to find a parish where you can be strenghtened with orthodox, traditional Catholic teaching. No parish is perfect, but the situation you describe sounds quite bad.
 
***A wise deacon once told me that priests are like snowflakes - no two are alike.

Pray for this man and do not be discouraged.***
 
Middleman said:
I don’t feel as if I am called to suffer. I think that’s a trite phrase that encourages passivity.

Suffering is inevitable in life, and some people seem to get way more unequal shares, but I don’t consider it particularly a Christian calling. Hopefully, though, Christ strengthens us in the face of suffering.
Click to expand...
God does call us to suffer for Him…and to rejoice.

'For example, Acts 14:22 says that Paul told all his young churches, “Through many tribulations we must enter the kingdom.” And Jesus said, “If they persecuted me, they will persecute you” (John 15:20). And Peter said, “Do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal among you, which comes upon you for your testing, as though some strange thing were happening to you” (1 Peter 4:12). And Paul said (in 2 Timothy 3:12), “Indeed, all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.”
 
Being called to suffer and sticking with this priest need not go together.

This is the kind of priest who should be taken from his post by the bishop and sent to rehabilitate somewhere, and be re-educated. It is definitely something to talk to the bishop about, if he is a good bishop, or even perhaps if he is a poor bishop.

You have every reason to leave unless for some particular, clear and compelling reason you think you can do good there that outweighs the good elsewhere and God is calling you to remain.

You also have to think of the danger to your soul this priest can be because of his bad habits, and realize you may be required to leave.

Being miserable at mass sounds like a highly pertinent factor right there. Sometimes one has no choice because all the nearby priests are bad… but perhaps you do. 🙂

Sometimes people -are- forced to work with a bad priest like this, I have seen saints do that. It depends on if God gives you the grace to handle it, and the call.

If you do leave, do not feel guilty about it. 🙂 I think objectively from what you’ve said, not knowing everything it is the most probable best choice.
 
Thank you for replies and advice. I’m sure you can tell this is difficult for us. I guess I have to remember that priests are broken too. We will probably try a different parish this fall. God bless.
 
I’ve encountered the same notion with people who think you’re called to silently endure whatever nonsense is taking place.

First, let me say if you have children who attend this Mass with you - GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE! Why poison the minds of your children by subjecting them to this nonsense.

Secondly, if you don’t have children who attend this Mass with you - GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE! Find a Priest who is Catholic and will give you faith whole and entire.

It is a false sense of chivalry to suggest that we should sit idly by while the Priest says and does whatever he wants contrary to the Faith. When my wife and I made the decision to attend the latin mass exclusively we had people tell us that we should not leave and if all the good families do as we planned and leave the parish there will be no good examples and the parish will suffer. Let the parish die off then - growing up post V2 I turned the other way all my life and filtered out the good from the bad. You kind of get in the habit of thinking this way and ignoring the bad stuff and trying to strain out the little good. But enough is enough! When my wife and I had children and I saw my little ones sitting there listening to the Priest dissent from Church teaching it was the last straw and we left never to go back.

If people want to sacrifice themselves to heresy and dissent by sitting through this nonsense then let them. But how dare they ask you to sacrifice yourself or your little ones to this behavior which is offensive to God.
 
RosaryCrusader said:
I’ve encountered the same notion with people who think you’re called to silently endure whatever nonsense is taking place.

First, let me say if you have children who attend this Mass with you - GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE! Why poison the minds of your children by subjecting them to this nonsense.

Secondly, if you don’t have children who attend this Mass with you - GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE! Find a Priest who is Catholic and will give you faith whole and entire.

It is a false sense of chivalry to suggest that we should sit idly by while the Priest says and does whatever he wants contrary to the Faith. When my wife and I made the decision to attend the latin mass exclusively we had people tell us that we should not leave and if all the good families do as we planned and leave the parish there will be no good examples and the parish will suffer. Let the parish die off then - growing up post V2 I turned the other way all my life and filtered out the good from the bad. You kind of get in the habit of thinking this way and ignoring the bad stuff and trying to strain out the little good. But enough is enough! When my wife and I had children and I saw my little ones sitting there listening to the Priest dissent from Church teaching it was the last straw and we left never to go back.

If people want to sacrifice themselves to heresy and dissent by sitting through this nonsense then let them. But how dare they ask you to sacrifice yourself or your little ones to this behavior which is offensive to God.
Click to expand...
With all due respect, it sounds alot like the church hopping that I saw and experienced as a Protestant.

I understand the sentiments (trust me, I do) but ultimately we go to Mass to worship God and receive the Eucharist, that should be our mindset as difficult as it is. We do not go looking for an aesthetic experience or a feeling of “ancient-ness.” Heck, if that’s what Mass is about, I’ll go become a “traditionalist” Roman or a Greek Orthodox. I think the true Catholic expression in this situation is to persist courageously in prayer, worship God during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (which is accomplished even when the rubrics are just barely followed), and trust in Christ and His promise of fidelity to His Church.

Regarding the priest, I think you should report him to the bishop and ask others to support you in that endeavor. This the job of the bishop and you have the right as a lay person to make your complaint to your chief shepherd.

As my spiritual father told me once, the “solemnity” liturgically and the amount of fidelity to Holy Orthodoxy that is exhibited in a given parish owes alot to the priest(s) in that parish. I remember when Fr. Dwight Longenecker visited my parish for the Vigil of Pentecost. He celebrated the Holy Mass of Paul VI with great reverence and in harmony with all the liturgical directives. He even sung most of the parts of the Mass. It was his reverence which revealed to me that the Mass of Paul VI can stand toe to toe with even the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, provided of course it is done in continuity with the way Mass has always been celebrated and, above all, according to the rubrics.

Finally, I have no doubt that whatever suffering you may be feeling is a treasure-trove of blessings for you and the whole Church, and especially for the great liturgical renewal that is coming.

I personally find the notion which I have felt implied here (namely, that the suffering you are facing is not worth being a part of that which we call “redemptive suffering”) a very un-Catholic concept.

Forgive me if I have been an offense.
 
Antonius_Lupus said:
With all due respect, it sounds alot like the church hopping that I saw and experienced as a Protestant.

I understand the sentiments (trust me, I do) but ultimately we go to Mass to worship God and receive the Eucharist, that should be our mindset as difficult as it is. We do not go looking for an aesthetic experience or a feeling of “ancient-ness.” Heck, if that’s what Mass is about, I’ll go become a “traditionalist” Roman or a Greek Orthodox. I think the true Catholic expression in this situation is to persist courageously in prayer, worship God during the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass (which is accomplished even when the rubrics are just barely followed), and trust in Christ and His promise of fidelity to His Church.

Regarding the priest, I think you should report him to the bishop and ask others to support you in that endeavor. This the job of the bishop and you have the right as a lay person to make your complaint to your chief shepherd.

As my spiritual father told me once, the “solemnity” liturgically and the amount of fidelity to Holy Orthodoxy that is exhibited in a given parish owes alot to the priest(s) in that parish. I remember when Fr. Dwight Longenecker visited my parish for the Vigil of Pentecost. He celebrated the Holy Mass of Paul VI with great reverence and in harmony with all the liturgical directives. He even sung most of the parts of the Mass. It was his reverence which revealed to me that the Mass of Paul VI can stand toe to toe with even the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, provided of course it is done in continuity with the way Mass has always been celebrated and, above all, according to the rubrics.

Finally, I have no doubt that whatever suffering you may be feeling is a treasure-trove of blessings for you and the whole Church, and especially for the great liturgical renewal that is coming.

I personally find the notion which I have felt implied here (namely, that the suffering you are facing is not worth being a part of that which we call “redemptive suffering”) a very un-Catholic concept.

Forgive me if I have been an offense.
Click to expand...
This is precisely the wrong headed advice I was warning against. Church hopping would be more accurately described as visiting different church’s until you find a Priest who has some qualities or characteristics that are desirable to you. It’s completely on superficial grounds. The situation described by the OP is one of a moral nature. A Priest dissenting from Church teaching on abortion and appearing drunk among some parishoners not only needs to reported to the Bishop but you need to leave that parish. You’re not going to be receiving Catholic teaching and it’s scandalous especially to young pious ears of children who may be present. This priest is doing the devils work [condoning abortion] and no Catholic in his right mind would stick around to listen to such gibberish.

Your advice reminds me of a parent who was being abused by their son. This parent said that they didn’t lay down the law because they wanted to preserve peace and that they were called to suffer and they were offering up the abuse for their son. What nonsense! A parent’s duty is to correct their child and it’s sinful neglect to allow this behavior unpunished - and to think that this parent thought it was a virtuous act in getting beat by their child! 😦
 
We are all called to carry our cross…It doesn’t mean we have to put up with someone who is doing harm to the Body of Christ…You must pray for him but I would also report this to the Bishop…When drinking is involved the bishop will do an intervention, if he feel the priest needs to go away to dry out

He might not even be responsible for the things he says while under the influence, but he can’t be allowed to lead people astray
 
We aren’t called to redemptive suffering. We’re called to bear our sufferings in a redemptive manner. I fail to see how keeping your mouth shut on behalf of a pastor who is not teaching the faith, let alone one who indulges in public drunkenness falls under the category of redemptive suffering. Being patient with one who lacks some of the talents you’d hope for or putting a lapse behind you is one thing. What the OP describes sounds like another kettle of fish entirely.

Assuming that you are truly describing drunkenness or even a habit of drinking to the point where personal restraint is lost, and not an isolated incident where a priest drank too much and said some things that he would take back in any other moment, the vicar of clergy should be notified. He cannot address problems that no one tells him about. Assuming you took the problem to the priest already, and did not see both a recognition of fault and an improvement in behavior, then you should take your concerns to the vicar of clergy. I do not mean tattling or accusing. I mean telling him about behavior or statements that concerned you and how the priest’s response to you when you raised the concern with him personally was unsatisfactory. (If you have cause to believe your pastor would be vindictive if you took this to him first, you may skip that and tell the vicar of clergy why you didn’t talk to your pastor yourself first.)

Canon law doesn’t require you to stay in any particular parish. Charity binds you in how you treat this priest–that you deal with the problem with as much patience, kindness, and graciousness as you can and do not indulge in gossip, for instance–but it doesn’t bind you to his parish. You may leave because he is not ministering to your spiritual needs, even if the problem is in your ability to receive what is an otherwise satisfactory effort on his part.

As for “church hopping”, I also think it is a bad habit to make onesself a critic of churches. Still, just because we don’t pick a church as if it were a restaurant does not mean that we may not choose our pastors with as much care as we would use in choosing a physician. Keep your priorities in place–choose what is best for your health, not just what you like–but don’t suffer bad care from someone you don’t trust has your best interest in either his heart or his ability and think you’re doing anyone a favor.

If you’re stuck out in the middle of nowhere with no other person who can dispense the sacraments you need, or if there are other extenuating circumstance, then you may be in another boat. But just as you wouldn’t have hunted this priest down as a sort of a human hair shirt for yourself, you don’t have to stick around for the sake of the suffering you’re getting. Even if the priest is innocent of your suffering, you’ll still be doing both of you a favor if you go elsewhere for your pastoral needs.
 
Middleman said:
I don’t feel as if I am called to suffer. I think that’s a trite phrase that encourages passivity.

Suffering is inevitable in life, and some people seem to get way more unequal shares, but I don’t consider it particularly a Christian calling. Hopefully, though, Christ strengthens us in the face of suffering.
Click to expand...
Yet as followers of Christ, we are most certainly called to suffer regardless of how you “feel” about it. Suffering is the essence of Christian living since all love demands a measure of suffering.

Our Lord has told us through the Gospels, if we wish to follow Him, we “are to take up our cross” to do so. His words are never trite or wasted. HE is the living Word of God.

**from Mark 8:
"34 He summoned the crowd with his disciples and said to them, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.” **
(usccb.org/nab/bible/mark/mark8.htm)

That doesn’t sound very pleasant or easy or trite to me.
 
Easter Joy has given you excellent advice. I think you are obliged to let the bishop know for this priest’s well-being and the well-being of other parishoners who may not know enough to be concerned. That does not mean you need to stay in this parish. Pray for this priest though and all priests that they may stay faithful to the Truth the church teachers and be strong in their beliefs.
 
catharina said:
Yet as followers of Christ, we are most certainly called to suffer regardless of how you “feel” about it. Suffering is the essence of Christian living since all love demands a measure of suffering.

Our Lord has told us through the Gospels, if we wish to follow Him, we “are to take up our cross” to do so. His words are never trite or wasted. HE is the living Word of God.

**from Mark 8:
"34 He summoned the crowd with his disciples and said to them, “Whoever wishes to come after me must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me.” **
(usccb.org/nab/bible/mark/mark8.htm)

That doesn’t sound very pleasant or easy or trite to me.
Click to expand...
Suffering is a fact of life. We have certain commandments to follow as Christians. If we follow them, we will also suffer.

But it is not loving to remain silent in this situation. Furthermore, silence is probably not the route of greatest suffering. It may well be much more painful in the short run to have to speak up for truth that is not being taught.

Again, we are not talking about being patient with a priest who gives correct but less-than-exciting homilies, who is socially awkward, whose mother did not teach him table manners, or any other relatively inconsequential fault like that. We’re talking about giving tacit approval to a priest who is silent on or who opposes the teachings of the Church. That is putting the lamps under baskets, instead of on a lampstand, where they belong.

Our appointed cross will lead us to do some hard things, but not everything that is hard is our appointed cross.
 
EasterJoy said:
Suffering is a fact of life. We have certain commandments to follow as Christians. If we follow them, we will also suffer.

But it is not loving to remain silent in this situation. Furthermore, silence is probably not the route of greatest suffering. It may well be much more painful in the short run to have to speak up for truth that is not being taught.

Again, we are not talking about being patient with a priest who gives correct but less-than-exciting homilies, who is socially awkward, whose mother did not teach him table manners, or any other relatively inconsequential fault like that. We’re talking about giving tacit approval to a priest who is silent on or who opposes the teachings of the Church. That is putting the lamps under baskets, instead of on a lampstand, where they belong.

Our appointed cross will lead us to do some hard things, but not everything that is hard is our appointed cross.
Click to expand...
I have no doubt at all that this family MUST take action within their diocese regarding the erroneous “teachings” of the priest. I have no doubt either that the suffering of the actions and reports that MUST be taken/made will lead to more suffering for them as they are the ones who will be bearing “bad news” - yet such suffering is a GOOD.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top