We are Gods ? John 10;34 Gen 3;4- 3;22

[simpleas]

John 10:34

33The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” 34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '? 35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),…

Gen 3:4

4“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

Gen 3 :22

22And the Lord God said, “The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil.

So from the written inspired word, and even Jesus states it, we are Gods? Maybe in the spiritual sense, as being spiritual beings, capable of rational thought. But why wasn’t Adam and Eve capable of rational thought? They had to learn from experience that they needed to rely on God, but God allows them to become more like him with a knowledge of Good and Evil.

What does Jesus mean by being God? Why doesn’t he just say we are children of God, not use the words you are Gods, if we aren’t meant to do our own will but Gods will?

Thanks.

 

[Neofight]

What does Jesus mean by being God? Why doesn’t he just say we are children of God, not use the words you are Gods, if we aren’t meant to do our own will but Gods will?

Thanks.

Jesus is quoting Psalm 82:6…but read it in context by adding verse 7:

6  I say, “You are gods,
  sons of the Most High, all of you;
7 nevertheless, you shall die like men,
  and fall like any prince.

This passage is speaking of how man should be fair (especially to the poor) in their judgment (judges, are in a sense, like a god, because of the power they have).

But, in verse 7, we see that although man is like a god, he is not God because he lacks immortality (however, he does have the promise of immortality through the salvation offered by Christ).

Also…pay close attention to god (lower case) and God (upper case)…it makes a significant difference.

Peace and all Good!

 

[JRKH]

Jesus is quoting Psalm 82:6…but read it in context by adding verse 7:

6  I say, “You are gods,
  sons of the Most High, all of you;
7 nevertheless, you shall die like men,
  and fall like any prince.

This passage is speaking of how man should be fair (especially to the poor) in their judgment (judges, are in a sense, like a god, because of the power they have).

But, in verse 7, we see that although man is like a god, he is not God because he lacks immortality (however, he does have the promise of immortality through the salvation offered by Christ).

Also…pay close attention to god (lower case) and God (upper case)…it makes a significant difference.

Peace and all Good!

Interesting thread…Quick comment on the matter of upper and lower case “G”.
I don’t think this is a valid argument since there is no upper or lower case in Hebrew - I’m not sure about Greek - but I don’t think there is upper and lower case in Greek. So the matter of “case” is an interpretation used in translation.
So the question is whether the terms used in the Psalm and in John is the same - - in the Septuagint Greek.

Just wondering.

Peace
James

 

[Neofight]

Interesting thread…Quick comment on the matter of upper and lower case “G”.
I don’t think this is a valid argument since there is no upper or lower case in Hebrew - I’m not sure about Greek - but I don’t think there is upper and lower case in Greek. So the matter of “case” is an interpretation used in translation.
So the question is whether the terms used in the Psalm and in John is the same - - in the Septuagint Greek.

Just wondering.

Peace
James

Good point on the Upper Lower case thing…however, it may be quite valid because the typical reader and one pondering scripture is doing so in the vernacular context of the text they are reading/studying and not the Greek or Hebrew (or even Latin translation)…I’m only assuming the OP was talking an English translation, probably RSV2CE or NABRE.

Peace and all Good!

 

[JRKH]

Good point on the Upper Lower case thing…however, it may be quite valid because the typical reader and one pondering scripture is doing so in the vernacular context of the text they are reading/studying and not the Greek or Hebrew (or even Latin translation)…I’m only assuming the OP was talking an English translation, probably RSV2CE or NABRE.

Peace and all Good!

No argument there…but the ones who did the translation must have had a reason for translating as they did…The real answer for the OP is going to lie there in the reasoning…

Peace
James

 

[Columba_Tom]

I’m not a Greek scholar. I had a look at gospel-john.com/greek/chapter-10.html for some guidance.

What we seem to have is “gods”, (θεους), which is what we are, and “the God” (του θεου).

The varieties of possible translations are interesting too: “θεους” generally could cover “a general name of deities or divinities”. I wonder if the suggestion could be that we enjoy some aspect of divine nature?

I had a look at the Hebrew in Genesis too: the serpent said, literally, “…and you become as Elohim ones knowing of good and evil”. Which I take to mean “god-like in that respect”. (But even then he was the Father of Lies!)

 

[simpleas]

Jesus is quoting Psalm 82:6…but read it in context by adding verse 7:

6  I say, “You are gods,
  sons of the Most High, all of you;
7 nevertheless, you shall die like men,
  and fall like any prince.

This passage is speaking of how man should be fair (especially to the poor) in their judgment (judges, are in a sense, like a god, because of the power they have).

But, in verse 7, we see that although man is like a god, he is not God because he lacks immortality (however, he does have the promise of immortality through the salvation offered by Christ).

Also…pay close attention to god (lower case) and God (upper case)…it makes a significant difference.

Peace and all Good!

Thanks, I see what you mean about man not being God, and man being a fair judge etc, but Jesus doesn’t quote all the psalm, the psalm says “I once said you are gods, sons of the most high, all of you”
Jesus states that it is written in the law, I said you are gods. And points out that they say he is blaspheming when he said that he was the son of God.
If some people are judges of others, does that mean they are gods because they have been chosen by God? What of everyone else?

btw I’m reading from the Jerusalem Bible.

Thanks.

 

[simpleas]

I’m not a Greek scholar. I had a look at gospel-john.com/greek/chapter-10.html for some guidance.

What we seem to have is “gods”, (θεους), which is what we are, and “the God” (του θεου).

The varieties of possible translations are interesting too: “θεους” generally could cover “a general name of deities or divinities”. I wonder if the suggestion could be that we enjoy some aspect of divine nature?

I had a look at the Hebrew in Genesis too: the serpent said, literally, “…and you become as Elohim ones knowing of good and evil”. Which I take to mean “god-like in that respect”. (But even then he was the Father of Lies!)

Thanks, yes I’m not thinking we are Gods, as I can clearly see our limitations I was pondering the serpents words “be like gods” then God saying “the man has become like one of us” And then Jesus pointing to the psalm “I said you are gods”.
I thought there was some connection between them that I haven’t worked out yet.

Your thought/question :

I* wonder if the suggestion could be that we enjoy some aspect of divine nature?*

Isn’t our soul an aspect of Divine nature? God gave life to the creature he made, his image and likeness. So that could be the supernatural spark that is in each of us?

This might sound strange, but I don’t think the serpent was lying, in that, he said they would become like gods, with knowledge of good and evil, and they did aquire that knowledge, but not in the way they may have believed the serpent was proposing, it caused more harm than good to have this god like knowledge…
But then it is thought of as a necessary fault sometime later!

Thanks.