"We are in the millenium reign now."

[Lev23]

Often, the belief of those Christians who state that there is a reign of Jesus Christ from Jerusalem over the whole earth after His second coming, is flat out rejected. In addition, those who reject the reign of Christ from Jerusalem after His second coming say the 1000 year Kingdom is now.

I have no problem with the fact that Christians have the eternal reign of Christ in us and in the Church at this moment.

But it is to those who claim that the 1000 year Kingdom is now and reject Jesus’ reign in person after His second coming, please explain this—

Zechariah 14:9
The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

This chapter deals with the Lord’s coming, what the Church knows as Jesus’ 2nd coming to Israel. It also talks about time, that “year after year”(Zech 14:16-19) the survivors of the nations that went up to attack Jerusalem will have to go there to worship the Lord at the feast of Tabernacles.

So getting back to verse 9, how is it at this moment that the Lord’s name and His name only is the only one here on earth? In fact, there are many “names” right now. Most if not all reject the absolute truth of the Gospel of the God of Israel’s one and only Son, Jesus Christ.

The fact that some churches that partake in ecumenical councils also prove there are many “names” at this present tim(I’m not arguing about ecumenical efforts).

One point of the Lords name and His name only over the whole earth is that the devil will be bound for that earthly reign of Jesus until the end of it, where the devil is released to deceive all he can and will go attack Jesus at Jerusalem, as described in Revelation 20.

Please explain.

 

[Pax]

Lev23 in Christ,

It could simply be that the Lord’s ruling from Jerusalem is a reference to the Church. The one thousand year reign is a reference to a “long time” and not an exact number of years. The one thousand year reign could be a reference to the time past when the Church was unified prior to the reformation. Likewise, we could be in the period of tribulation as we speak. This is all subject to a great deal of speculation.

God bless.

 

[Victorious]

It could simply be that the Lord’s ruling from Jerusalem is a reference to the Church.

That’s what I think. The Old Testament is a foreshadowing of the New Testament: “Israel” and “Jerusalem” are figures of the Church. Remember that during the time covered by the Old Testament, God was thought of as a national God, the God of the Jews, acknowledged by the Jews while the pagans had their own gods. Under the New Covenant, He is acknowledged the God of all, even though we do not all act accordingly all the time.

 

[Victorious]

One point of the Lords name and His name only over the whole earth is that the devil will be bound for that earthly reign of Jesus until the end of it, where the devil is released to deceive all he can and will go attack Jesus at Jerusalem, as described in Revelation 20.

The devil is bound. He has already lost the war: the Death and Resurrection of Jesus decisively defeated him. He is also bound in virtue of the weapons the Church has at her disposal, especially the Sacraments and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as well as the various sacramentals we have been given for our everyday use – all of whose merits are derived from the Sacrifice at Calvary (and the Mass is the same Sacrifice). But the devil will not be finally defeated until the End of Time. What we have right now is mop-up operations.

 

[Todd_Easton]

Revelation 20:4-5 speaks of two different resurrections, “the first resurrection,” a selective resurrection of only martyrs at the beginning of Christ’s thousand year reign, and another resurrection, a general resurrection of “the rest of the dead” at the end of the thousand years. It is possible that the first resurrection of martyrs mentioned in Revelation 20:4-5 is not a future event but the past event that happened about the time of Christ’s own resurrection, recorded in Matthew 27:52-53: “the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.” This places the resurrected Christ and many resurrected saints in the beloved city, Jerusalem, in the first century A.D.

 

[Pax]

Revelation 20:4-5 speaks of two different resurrections, “the first resurrection,” a selective resurrection of only martyrs at the beginning of Christ’s thousand year reign, and another resurrection, a general resurrection of “the rest of the dead” at the end of the thousand years. It is possible that the first resurrection of martyrs mentioned in Revelation 20:4-5 is not a future event but the past event that happened about the time of Christ’s own resurrection, recorded in Matthew 27:52-53: “the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.” This places the resurrected Christ and many resurrected saints in the beloved city, Jerusalem, in the first century A.D.

That is certainly a reasonable interpretation of actual scriptural events.

 

[Lev23]

Lev23 in Christ,

It could simply be that the Lord’s ruling from Jerusalem is a reference to the Church. The one thousand year reign is a reference to a “long time” and not an exact number of years. The one thousand year reign could be a reference to the time past when the Church was unified prior to the reformation. Likewise, we could be in the period of tribulation as we speak. This is all subject to a great deal of speculation.

God bless.

Or it could simply mean that the Lord will rule from Jerusalem after His second advent, like the OT and NT scriptures state will happen.

 

[Lev23]

That’s what I think. The Old Testament is a foreshadowing of the New Testament: “Israel” and “Jerusalem” are figures of the Church. Remember that during the time covered by the Old Testament, God was thought of as a national God, the God of the Jews, acknowledged by the Jews while the pagans had their own gods. Under the New Covenant, He is acknowledged the God of all, even though we do not all act accordingly all the time.

He is the God of Israel and is currently bringing in people from all nations to be adopted into the promises of Israel with Israel, making the two one in Christ. This in no way nullifies Christ ruling from Jerusalem after His second advent.

**Ephesians 2:11-22
Therefore, remember that formerly you who are Gentiles by birth and called “uncircumcised” by those who call themselves “the circumcision” (that done in the body by the hands of men)— remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God’s people and members of God’s household, built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become a holy temple in the Lord. And in him you too are being built together to become a dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.**

Also see Jeremiah 31:31-37

 

[Lev23]

The devil is bound. He has already lost the war: the Death and Resurrection of Jesus decisively defeated him. He is also bound in virtue of the weapons the Church has at her disposal, especially the Sacraments and the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, as well as the various sacramentals we have been given for our everyday use – all of whose merits are derived from the Sacrifice at Calvary (and the Mass is the same Sacrifice). But the devil will not be finally defeated until the End of Time. What we have right now is mop-up operations.

Focusing on the devil being bound, how can he be bound when St.Peter the Apostle states this?-
1Peter 5:8
Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

 

[Lev23]

Revelation 20:4-5 speaks of two different resurrections, “the first resurrection,” a selective resurrection of only martyrs at the beginning of Christ’s thousand year reign, and another resurrection, a general resurrection of “the rest of the dead” at the end of the thousand years. It is possible that the first resurrection of martyrs mentioned in Revelation 20:4-5 is not a future event but the past event that happened about the time of Christ’s own resurrection, recorded in Matthew 27:52-53: “the tombs also were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised, and coming out of the tombs after his resurrection they went into the holy city and appeared to many.” This places the resurrected Christ and many resurrected saints in the beloved city, Jerusalem, in the first century A.D.

This resurrection could not be referring to those in Matthew 27:52-53 because Revelation 20:4-5 gives the specific information it was the tribulation saints in the last seven years prior to the Lords second advent to Israel.

Revelation 20:4-5
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

This first resurrection is conclusion of the pre-tribulation rapture, that is OT saints and the dead in Christ resurrected, along with those who remained alive and in Christ that were changed in a twinkling of an eye and caught up to met with the Lord in the air.

 

[Thing]

This resurrection could not be referring to those in Matthew 27:52-53 because Revelation 20:4-5 gives the specific information it was the tribulation saints in the last seven years prior to the Lords second advent to Israel.

Revelation 20:4-5
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

This first resurrection is conclusion of the pre-tribulation rapture, that is OT saints and the dead in Christ resurrected, along with those who remained alive and in Christ that were changed in a twinkling of an eye and caught up to met with the Lord in the air.

At first glance I would have thought that that Rev. verse was talking reassuredly about the souls of the likes of John the Baptist and St. Paul and many others presumably who died, were beheaded, for their attachment to Christ.
That they never did worship the Beast. The Beast symbolizes satans power in the world in every age, I suppose.
They came to life when they died and did reign with Christ for a thousand years, or as someone said, for a very long time. After which, very long time, there will be the end of time and the Ressurrection of all the dead and the Final judgement.

 

[Victorious]

Focusing on the devil being bound, how can he be bound when St.Peter the Apostle states this?-
1Peter 5:8
Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

He is bound in the sense that his doom is certain. He has lost the war. He has been decisively defeated, even though he has not been completely subdued, and we are not at his mercy unless we choose to be.

 

[ryanoneil]

Often, the belief of those Christians who state that there is a reign of Jesus Christ from Jerusalem over the whole earth after His second coming, is flat out rejected. In addition, those who reject the reign of Christ from Jerusalem after His second coming say the 1000 year Kingdom is now.

I have no problem with the fact that Christians have the eternal reign of Christ in us and in the Church at this moment.

But it is to those who claim that the 1000 year Kingdom is now and reject Jesus’ reign in person after His second coming, please explain this—

Zechariah 14:9
The LORD will be king over the whole earth. On that day there will be one LORD, and his name the only name.

This chapter deals with the Lord’s coming, what the Church knows as Jesus’ 2nd coming to Israel. It also talks about time, that “year after year”(Zech 14:16-19) the survivors of the nations that went up to attack Jerusalem will have to go there to worship the Lord at the feast of Tabernacles.

Please explain.

The Church has understood this as applying to Jesus’ 1st coming. Read chapter 18 below.

earlychristianwritings.com/fathers/eusebius_de_08_book6.html

 

[ryanoneil]

Focusing on the devil being bound, how can he be bound when St.Peter the Apostle states this?-
1Peter 5:8
Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and steal his property, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house. (Mt 12:29)

The strong man (Satan) has been bound ever since Christ’s advent when he started plundering his house. The gospel has not stopped spreading and souls have come into the kingdom for the past 2,000 years. A chained lion can still devour someone if they get to close.

 

[ryanoneil]

Revelation 20:4-5
I saw thrones on which were seated those who had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony for Jesus and because of the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his image and had not received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended.) This is the first resurrection.

This first resurrection is conclusion of the pre-tribulation rapture, that is OT saints and the dead in Christ resurrected, along with those who remained alive and in Christ that were changed in a twinkling of an eye and caught up to met with the Lord in the air.

Why do you associate this with a pre-tribulation rapture? The dead rise first before the rapture, and the dead in (Rev 20:4) died during the tribulation.

For the Lord himself, with a word of command, with the voice of an archangel and with the trumpet of God, will come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. Thus we shall always be with the Lord. (1 Thes 4:16-17)

What confuses most people about the first resurrection is that it is NOT the resurrection of the body. The first resurrection is going to heaven to reign with Christ after we die. The thrones in Rev 20:4 are in the heavenly throne room and not on earth. Our bodily resurrection happens when the 1,000 years is ended.

Notice the order of events in (1 Cor 15:22-24)

For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life, but each one in proper order: Christ the firstfruits; then, at his coming, those who belong to Christ; then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power.

The order is clear. Christ was raised bodily from the dead. Second, Christians will be raised from the dead bodily. Third, the end comes. There is no mention of a two-stage coming of Christ, split into a secret rapture and a later second advent. There is one resurrection of the body and one return of Christ. Immediately after this coming (not seven or a 1,007 years later), the end arrives, at which time Christ “delievers the Kingdom to God”.

Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For that which is corruptible must clothe itself with incorruptibility, and that which is mortal must clothe itself with immortality. And when this which is corruptible clothes itself with incorruptibility and this which is mortal clothes itself with immortality, then the word that is written shall come about: "Death is swallowed up in victory. (1 Cor 15:51-54)

The last trumpet does not sound seven or 1,007 years before the end. The last trumpet will sound “last”. “Death is swallowed up in victory” at the end, not before the battle of Armageddon or before the battle with Gog and Magog. This cannot be refering to a rapture before the Great Tribulation and the Millenium if people will continue to be born, to live, and to die during that time. Death is swallowed up in victory in (Rev 20:14). The rapture happens once immediately before the final judment and eternity.

 

[Lev23]

The Church has understood this as applying to Jesus’ 1st coming. Read chapter 18 below.

earlychristianwritings.com/fathers/eusebius_de_08_book6.html

Thanks for the link.
I’ve read the chapter, and it is very descriptive. But it fails to deal with certain details of Zechariah 14, like verses 12-19.

The prophecies of scripture concerning Jesus’ first coming where fufilled to the letter in plain understanding for any Jew to comprehend, according to the witness report of the Apostles. Jesus’ second coming prophecies will be filled in the same way.

Sure, some the details of the second coming prophecies of Jesus seemed cryptic to the church at first. But I don’t think that qualifies the removal of a future earthly reign of the Messiah from Jerusalem, and therefore reading back into prophecies that concern the second advent to Israel and considering them fulfilled.

 

[Lev23]

How can anyone enter a strong man’s house and steal his property, unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house. (Mt 12:29)

The strong man (Satan) has been bound ever since Christ’s advent when he started plundering his house. The gospel has not stopped spreading and souls have come into the kingdom for the past 2,000 years. A chained lion can still devour someone if they get to close.

One aspect of Satan not being bound, as described in Revelation 20 is his ability to “deceive the nations”. Surely the nations have been and still are deceived. The UN, EU, etc. ALL of them have plans, and NONE of those plans include the King who is coming, Jesus Christ.
**Revelation 20:3
He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

Verses 7-8
When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore.**

Only when the King, Jesus Christ is reigning here on earth and Satan is bound for the Kingdom, will this happen-

**Isaiah 2:1-5
This is what Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:
In the last days
the mountain of the LORD’s temple will be established
as chief among the mountains;
it will be raised above the hills,
and all nations will stream to it.

Many peoples will come and say,
“Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
to the house of the God of Jacob.
He will teach us his ways,
so that we may walk in his paths.”
The law will go out from Zion,
the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

He will judge between the nations
and will settle disputes for many peoples.
They will beat their swords into plowshares
and their spears into pruning hooks.
Nation will not take up sword against nation,
nor will they train for war anymore.

Come, O house of Jacob,
let us walk in the light of the LORD.**

Nation is still going up against nation today.

**Matthew 24:3-9
As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains.**

 

[brb3]

a future earthly reign of the Messiah from Jerusalem

Do you accept the literal 1000 year ‘earthly’ reign of Christ to the Jewish Nation at some later date [after the removal of the Church] … in a rebuilt 3rd Temple ?

What scriptures support this idea ?

 

[ryanoneil]

Thanks for the link.
I’ve read the chapter, and it is very descriptive. But it fails to deal with certain details of Zechariah 14, like verses 12-19.

The prophecies of scripture concerning Jesus’ first coming where fufilled to the letter in plain understanding for any Jew to comprehend, according to the witness report of the Apostles. Jesus’ second coming prophecies will be filled in the same way.

Sure, some the details of the second coming prophecies of Jesus seemed cryptic to the church at first. But I don’t think that qualifies the removal of a future earthly reign of the Messiah from Jerusalem, and therefore reading back into prophecies that concern the second advent to Israel and considering them fulfilled.

Except Zechariah 14:12-19 isn’t second coming prophecy. Zechariah prophecied Christ Advent and the 70 years of covenantal transition associated with it (otherwise known as the “Day of the Lord”). There are no 2,000 year jumps forward and backward between chapters or verses.