We are not responsible for our sin

[STT]

We all are familiar with sin, resistance against it and temptation for performing it. We all as rational agent always decide to avoid sin. I claim that we sin when temptation is so strong that our resistance collapses. Therefore we are not responsible for our sin.

 

[Della]

We all are familiar with sin, resistance against it and temptation for performing it. We all as rational agent always decide to avoid sin. I claim that we sin when temptation is so strong that our resistance collapses. Therefore we are not responsible for our sin.

Sorry, your proposition is flawed. If we were capable of being rational at all moments in our lives, we could not sin.

 

[sudy]

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Therefore, we are responsible for our sin.

 

[hu324b]

Sorry I chose every sin I committed - I will not blame God for the choices I made - i will ask for his mercy.

Guilty!

 

[Della]

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Therefore, we are responsible for our sin.

Of course, this was written to fellow baptized Christians who therefore had received God’s saving grace–a fact I’m sure you did not mean to overlook.

Those without that saving grace are a different story. We cannot do the will of God all on our own. Those who have been baptized, but who reject God’s grace cannot hope to resist temptation in all circumstances.

Still, we are responsible for our sins because anyone can see evidence for God’s goodness and seek to do the right, at which point God’s grace is there to aid them due to Christ’s redemptive death on the cross.

 

[Della]

Sorry I chose every sin I committed - I will not blame God for the choices I made - i will ask for his mercy.

Guilty!

Indeed, no one can sin “accidentally.” Our sins are always a matter of choice.

 

[sudy]

Of course, this was written to fellow baptized Christians who therefore had received God’s saving grace–a fact I’m sure you did not mean to overlook.

Those without that saving grace are a different story. We cannot do the will of God all on our own. Those who have been baptized, but who reject God’s grace cannot hope to resist temptation in all circumstances.

Still, we are responsible for our sins because anyone can see evidence for God’s goodness and seek to do the right, at which point God’s grace is there to aid them due to Christ’s redemptive death on the cross.

Hmm… it’s true that when I wrote what I did, I was thinking of fellow Christians, as the OP was referring to all of us.

The OP also writes about resisting temptation, and being familiar with sin, too, so his conscience is aware of right and wrong, and our conscience will bear witness against us. In Romans 2:12-16 it says something about this.

In any case, I’m definitely not speaking about invincible ignorance, but I’m also not here to judge the OP or anyone else. I’m happy to let God decide who is and isn’t guilty.

 

[STT]

Sorry, your proposition is flawed. If we were capable of being rational at all moments in our lives, we could not sin.

So you believe that we could sometimes become irrational? A glass of wine or poison. Which one do you pick up?

 

[STT]

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your strength, but with temptation will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Therefore, we are responsible for our sin.

There are two scenario available: (1) Temptation is beyond your strength and (2) Temptation is not beyond your strength. You sin in first case and don’t sin in the second case.

 

[davidv]

There are two scenario available: (1) Temptation is beyond your strength and (2) Temptation is not beyond your strength. You sin in first case and don’t sin in the second case.

God assures us that (1) is never true.

Given (2), not sinning is only one of the two possible outcomes. The other outcome is to give in to temptation, despite having the strength to resist it, and sin.

 

[STT]

God assures us that (1) is never true.

Given (2), not sinning is only one of the two possible outcomes. The other outcome is to give in to temptation, despite having the strength to resist it, and sin.

You position is paradoxical. That is true because we are rational beings and always make rational decision which means that we won’t sin and because we know that we sin. Therefore your claim is not true.

 

[Bookcat]

That is true because we are rational beings and always make rational decision which means that we won’t sin and because we know that we sin.

Not sure what is meant there.

 

[STT]

Not sure what is meant there.

We won’t sin if the temptation is not beyond our strength since we are rational being. In another hand we observe that we sin. David claimed that God does not allow temptation beyond our strength. This situation is paradoxical.

 

[davidv]

You position is paradoxical. That is true because we are rational beings and always make rational decision which means that we won’t sin and because we know that we sin. Therefore your claim is not true.

Everyday life is ample evidence that humans make irrational decisions, despite having the capacity to be rational.

My claim stands, unaffected by the faulty argument presented here.

 

[Bookcat]

We won’t sin if the temptation is not beyond our strength since we are rational being. In another hand we observe that we sin. David claimed that God does not allow temptation beyond our strength. This situation is paradoxical.

Nope not paradoxical.

1. Human persons have a fallen nature which includes a darkened intellect, a weakened will and concupscience…
2. Human persons - even those who are in true life -in grace - can still make choices contrary to reason. Free will is free will. One can choose to eat those three bags of oreos despite the knowledge that such is disordered and not good for you.
3. David quoted Scripture correctly. Such applies yes to Christians in the life of grace. Such though does not remove the ability to choose evil. Just because God does not allow me to be tempted beyond my strength -does not mean that I will cannot still choose evil despite this. One can have the strength to say no -but still choose freely to say yes.

 

[Bookcat]

For sin there must be responsibility - without knowledge and will being involved there is not formal sin committed. One does not sin by killing someone in ones dream.

 

[STT]

Everyday life is ample evidence that humans make irrational decisions, despite having the capacity to be rational.

My claim stands, unaffected by the faulty argument presented here.

That is not true but lets buy the idea for a second. Again there are two scenarios here (1) We are rational when we make decision and (2) We are irrational when we make decision. In first case we don’t sin since sin is not rational. We are irrational in the second case therefore we are not responsible for our sin. Do you treat irrational people the same way you treat rational people?

We are inherently ration being. Saying that we could be irrational means that our nature is buggy, we are simply not perfect. Therefore we are not responsible for the bug or our irrational decision.

 

[STT]

Nope not paradoxical.

1. Human persons have a fallen nature which includes a darkened intellect, a weakened will and concupscience…

So we are buggy. Therefore we are not responsible for the bug.

1. Human persons - even those who are in true life -in grace - can still make choices contrary to reason. Free will is free will. One can choose to eat those three bags of oreos despite the knowledge that such is disordered and not good for you.
2. David quoted Scripture correctly. Such applies yes to Christians in the life of grace. Such though does not remove the ability to choose evil. Just because God does not allow me to be tempted beyond my strength -does not mean that I will cannot still choose evil despite this. One can have the strength to say no -but still choose freely to say yes.

Having grace doesn’t resolve the problem.

 

[Bookcat]

So we are buggy. Therefore we are not responsible for the bug.

We are inherently ration being. Saying that we could be irrational means that our nature is buggy, we are simply not perfect. Therefore we are not responsible for the bug or our irrational decision.

Nope. Does not follow.

We have freedom and knowledge and yes responsibility.

Now can there be at times something that interferes with such - so that it is not something one is responsible for? Or at least not fully?

Yes.

But the exception is not the norm.

Having grace doesn’t resolve the problem.

Sure it does - so long as one remains living in Christ - one is not “living in sin.”

One can by grace - avoid each mortal sin. And remain in Christ. In true life.

And if one does misuse ones free will and fall…by grace one can be restored again to that life.

 

[STT]

For sin there must be responsibility - without knowledge and will being involved there is not formal sin committed. One does not sin by killing someone in ones dream.

Well, you first need to show that my argument is wrong.