We are not to judge others

[Mimi]

In a recent homily, the priest spoke mostly about being careful not to judge others. No mention of others’ actions. It bothers me, but can’t put my finger on what an appropriate response might be. The Bible says “Do not judge lest you be judged”, but we do need to be able to discern another’s motives and judge (for example) whether or not he or she would make a good political leader, or to vote appropriately for a church council member.

Hope I’m not being judgemental about this priest, just the homily.

God bless,
Mimi

 

[buffalo]

We cannot judge whether or not a person will attain salvation, but we can and should judge actions.

True Christian charity demands fraternal correction. Once only has top continue reading the verses to see this.

Fraternal Correction

 

[buffalo]

Love is not tolerance

BISHOP FULTON J. SHEEN

 

[RobHom]

I think you could be complicating the issue. If you consider the fact that it was Christ who said:

In Matthew 7:1, 5

1 Judge not, that you may not be judged, 2 For with what judgment you judge, you shall be judged: and with what measure you mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 Any why seest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye; and seest not the beam that is in thy own eye? 4 Or how sayest thou to thy brother: Let me cast the mote out of thy eye; and behold a beam is in thy own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam in thy own eye, and then shalt thou see to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

I don’t think that the admonition against “judging” is against making “personal decisions” or forming “personal opinions” regarding various issues…where we are concerned. I believe the admonition is a warning against actually “casting judgment” on another person…and doing so “publicly”…where their sins or failures are concerned. It goes along with something else Christ said: “Let he who is without sin cast the first stone”.

If we were to never “judge”…for our own purposes the credibility of a person running for office…we would never know who to vote for. But in reality…when doing that kind of “judging”…we are not actually judging the person…we are forming a “personal opinion” that may serve as the basis for a decision.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

In a recent homily, the priest spoke mostly about being careful not to judge others. No mention of others’ actions. It bothers me, but can’t put my finger on what an appropriate response might be. The Bible says “Do not judge lest you be judged”, but we do need to be able to discern another’s motives and judge (for example) whether or not he or she would make a good political leader, or to vote appropriately for a church council member.

Hope I’m not being judgemental about this priest, just the homily.

God bless,
Mimi

I think that the priest was correct. It is a very fine line between judging acts and judging the person. I find very few people who can actually do so, though most all claim they can. Jesus was very clear on this point. He counseled against judging others or telling them of their sins, when they themselves had sin to a degree that should keep them fully occupied.

While it may sound correct to say, actions can be judged, I would argue that this is not what is meant either. Our responsibilites in a civil context (jury duty for instance) requires us to judge actions based on certain well stated principles. We are given rules by which to do so, and yes, we do not pass judgement, A judge does this. But this does not mean that we can carry this over to our lives in general.

We are simply unable to know most of the time the heart and reasons behind actions. It will often be incorrect when we attempt to do so. Thus we should follow Jesus, IMO and not judge. Certainly when called upon, advice is appropriate, but I would argue that except in exceptional instances when there is very good cause to believe that the person may be unaware of the “sin” unsolicited advice is inappropriate.

One of the reasons I say this is that you might well be interfering by your attempt to tell someone of their “misdeeds” of an ongoing relationship of priest/penitent for instance. You cannot look upon a situation and assume you know anything but the most obvious of facts. To intervene in someone’s life without welcome could do a grave injustice to them and others.

I wouldn’t speak so assuredly on this myself, but the fact that Jesus took two occassions to speak so strongly on the point, seems to suggest it was a very important point to him. His and others experiences with the Pharisees and their constant remonstrance with those who deviated from their believed righteousness, serve as a serious point to us, or should.

 

[rwoehmke]

We are simply unable to know most of the time the heart and reasons behind actions. It will often be incorrect when we attempt to do so. Thus we should follow Jesus, IMO and not judge.

If we follow this sort of advice we have no way to determine whether our tax accountant is a scoundrel we don’t want to patronize or whether we should vote for Bill Jones or Bob Smith. Buffalo has hit the nail on the head, we cannot and should not judge whether one is going to hell or not, but we sure are not going to walk through life like naifs and let every Tom, **** and Harry rip us off in one way or another. If the guy acts like a scoundrel, I don’t care if his heart is pure gold and his reasons flawless, he ain’t gonna get my vote. Theres a vast gulf between being judgemental in the manner Jesus repudiates and being stupid.

 

[Genesis315]

This passage from St. Catherine of Siena’s Dialogue may help a little:

Another thing is necessary for you to arrive at this union and purity, namely, that you should never judge the will of man in anything that you may see done or said by any creature whatsoever, either to yourself or to others. My will alone should you consider, both in them and in yourself. And, if you should see evident sins or defects, draw out of those thorns the rose, that is to say, offer them to Me, with holy compassion. In the case of injuries done to yourself, judge that My will permits this in order to prove virtue in yourself, and in My other servants, esteeming that he who acts thus does so as the instrument of My will; perceiving, moreover, that such apparent sinners may frequently have a good intention, for no one can judge the secrets of the heart of man. That which you do not see you should not judge in your mind, even though it may externally be open mortal sin, seeing nothing in others, but My will, not in order to judge, but, as has been said, with holy compassion. In this way you will arrive at perfect purity, because acting thus, your mind will not be scandalized, either in Me or in your neighbor. Otherwise you fall into contempt of your neighbor, if you judge his evil will towards you, instead of My will acting in him. Such contempt and scandal separates the soul from Me, and prevents perfection, and, in some cases, deprives a man of grace, more or less according to the gravity of his contempt, and the hatred which his judgment has conceived against his neighbor.

Or this maxim for attaining to perfection from St. Alphonsus Liguori:

1. To speak well of all, and to excuse the intention when you cannot defend the action.

 

[adrift]

2 [1] This is not a prohibition against recognizing the faults of others, which would be hardly compatible with Matthew 7:5, 6 but against passing judgment in a spirit of arrogance, forgetful of one’s own faults.

 

[yellowbird]

In Sunday’s homily my Priest said we can judge someone’s actions as sinful. He said we cannot say where they’d end up if they died, but sin is sin and we’re allowed to call it just that.

I love my Priest. He doesn’t sugar coat anything.

 

[Swan]

I think that the priest was correct. It is a very fine line between judging acts and judging the person. I find very few people who can actually do so, though most all claim they can. Jesus was very clear on this point. He counseled against judging others or telling them of their sins, when they themselves had sin to a degree that should keep them fully occupied.

While it may sound correct to say, actions can be judged, I would argue that this is not what is meant either. Our responsibilites in a civil context (jury duty for instance) requires us to judge actions based on certain well stated principles. We are given rules by which to do so, and yes, we do not pass judgement, A judge does this. But this does not mean that we can carry this over to our lives in general.

We are simply unable to know most of the time the heart and reasons behind actions. It will often be incorrect when we attempt to do so. Thus we should follow Jesus, IMO and not judge. Certainly when called upon, advice is appropriate, but I would argue that except in exceptional instances when there is very good cause to believe that the person may be unaware of the “sin” unsolicited advice is inappropriate.

One of the reasons I say this is that you might well be interfering by your attempt to tell someone of their “misdeeds” of an ongoing relationship of priest/penitent for instance. You cannot look upon a situation and assume you know anything but the most obvious of facts. To intervene in someone’s life without welcome could do a grave injustice to them and others.

I wouldn’t speak so assuredly on this myself, but the fact that Jesus took two occassions to speak so strongly on the point, seems to suggest it was a very important point to him. His and others experiences with the Pharisees and their constant remonstrance with those who deviated from their believed righteousness, serve as a serious point to us, or should.

As usualy, I agree completely. I don’t think it can be emphasized enough that we don’t know another’s heart - we have no idea what might cause someone to act in a certain way. Nothing happens in a vacuum! “There but for the Grace of God go I” - we would do well to remember that, along with “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”. So, drop that rock!

 

[annem]

Swan

I don’t think it can be emphasized enough that we don’t know another’s heart - we have no idea what might cause someone to act in a certain way.

Dear Swan, I am sure we all agree. tWe are all broken, and understand things so imperfectly. And none of us can judge why a person sins.

However, we all do have to do our best to not sin. Keep at it no matter how hard it is. And it is our duty to tell people the truth of what God asks of us. Luke 17:3 “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him.”

God bless, Annem

 

[E.E.N.S]

In Sunday’s homily my Priest said we can judge someone’s actions as sinful. He said we cannot say where they’d end up if they died, but sin is sin and we’re allowed to call it just that.

I love my Priest. He doesn’t sugar coat anything.

Indeed.

We need to call sin sin, but judging motives (hearts) or eternal destinations is for God alone. People so often are quick to jump on the “don’t judge lest ye be judged” bandwagon without realizing this very necessary distinction.

 

[elvisman]

In Matt. 7:17-20, Jesus emphatically states the following:

***"Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. ***
***A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. ***
***Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. ***
So by their fruits you will know them."

---

We cannot judge a person’s heart but we certainly CAN judge their actions. We are advised to do so by Jesus himself.

 

[rpp]

Being judgmental essentially consists of determining the state of another person’s soul and condemning them to Hell.

We can look at a person’s actions and try to offer correction. In fact, as Catholics, were are actually morally obligated to do that.

When a person is challenged because of some sinful behavior they like to engage in, say homosexual acts, and they respond “Your judgmental,” that is both false and a cop-out. (Presuming you did not say something like “you’re going to Hell.”)

Being judgmental is something very few people on this forum actually engage in. I guess the best example of judgmental actions are the tactics and words of Pastor Fred Phelps of Westboro Baptist Church.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I think that the priest was correct. It is a very fine line between judging acts and judging the person. I find very few people who can actually do so, though most all claim they can. Jesus was very clear on this point. He counseled against judging others or telling them of their sins, when they themselves had sin to a degree that should keep them fully occupied.

While it may sound correct to say, actions can be judged, I would argue that this is not what is meant either. Our responsibilites in a civil context (jury duty for instance) requires us to judge actions based on certain well stated principles. We are given rules by which to do so, and yes, we do not pass judgement, A judge does this. But this does not mean that we can carry this over to our lives in general.

We are simply unable to know most of the time the heart and reasons behind actions. It will often be incorrect when we attempt to do so. Thus we should follow Jesus, IMO and not judge. Certainly when called upon, advice is appropriate, but I would argue that except in exceptional instances when there is very good cause to believe that the person may be unaware of the “sin” unsolicited advice is inappropriate.

One of the reasons I say this is that you might well be interfering by your attempt to tell someone of their “misdeeds” of an ongoing relationship of priest/penitent for instance. You cannot look upon a situation and assume you know anything but the most obvious of facts. To intervene in someone’s life without welcome could do a grave injustice to them and others.

I wouldn’t speak so assuredly on this myself, but the fact that Jesus took two occassions to speak so strongly on the point, seems to suggest it was a very important point to him. His and others experiences with the Pharisees and their constant remonstrance with those who deviated from their believed righteousness, serve as a serious point to us, or should.

I don’t think this could have been explained much better…Thank you.

 

[Ender]

We need to call sin sin, but judging motives (hearts) or eternal destinations is for God alone. People so often are quick to jump on the “don’t judge lest ye be judged” bandwagon without realizing this very necessary distinction.

While we may not judge one’s intentions we may certainly judge his actions; you are right that this distinction must be made.

(Aquinas ST II/II 60,2 ad 1)
*“Thou shalt not judge. (Mt 7:1) In these words our Lord forbids **rash **judgment which is about the inward intention, or other uncertain things, as Augustine states. Or else He forbids judgment about Divine things, which we ought not to judge, but simply believe, since they are above us, as Hilary declares in his commentary on Mt. 5. Or again according to Chrysostom, He forbids the judgment which proceeds not from benevolence but from bitterness of heart.”

*So long as we judge fairly with the right intention about those things which we can know (actions), judgment is appropriate and indeed necessary.

Ender

 

[fix]

The Bible says “Do not judge lest you be judged”, but we do need to be able to discern another’s motives and judge (for example) whether or not he or she would make a good political leader, or to vote appropriately for a church council member.

I think part of the problem is taking this one single phrase and creating an entire new theology out of it. That is what we have today when we constantly speak about being “judgemental”.

It seems we want some type of moral relativism where each person does whatever they want and demands no one speak against seroius sin.

Every part of the bible must be reconciled. And our interpretations should not contradict Church teaching.

I am not talking about your priest. I am just stating some general observations I see from reading posts.

 

[Brendan]

I think that the priest was correct. It is a very fine line between judging acts and judging the person.

Huh? Who here cannot distingish between an act and a person.

A person is a living rational entity. An act is the end result of a verb.

Two completely different things.

Can you distingish between a thief and a theft, a murderer and a murder? I can.

Is a rapist the same thing a rape? Is a homosexual the same thing as sodomy?

So how can anyone have problems distinguishing between a person and and action?

The Bible is pretty clear on that.

James 5:19-20

My brothers, if anyone among you should stray from the truth and someone bring him back, he should know that whoever brings back a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

James knows that we can recognize when a person sins, and that they are in the state of sin. He also praises when we bring them back to the Truth. Doing so even removes the temporal effects of our own sins.

That is why Admonishment of Sinners is an Act of Mercy.

 

[Ted_in_Charlott]

We are all sinners. We all have had times in our lives where we have done or said or even thought wrong. Thats’ the person, and they are due mercy from us.

Forgive us our tresspasses (sins) as we forgive those that tresspass (sin) against us. The operative words are “us” and “those”. Forgive is the act.

Get the beam out of your own eye in order to be the speck out of your brother’s eye. (You get the drift)

Forgive your brother 7 times 70 times (ditto)

Love thy neighbor as thyself (ditto)

Let the one without sin cast the first stone (ditto)

Love, mercy, forgiveness, get your own life in order.

And when you have to deal with person that has committed a sinful act, there are prescribed ways of handling it. Matthew 18 comes to mind:

15 But if thy brother shall offend against thee, go, and rebuke him between thee and him alone. If he shall hear thee, thou shalt gain thy brother. 16 And if he will not hear thee, take with thee one or two more: that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may stand. 17 And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican. 18 Amen I say to you, whatsoever you shall bind upon earth, shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever you shall loose upon earth, shall be loosed also in heaven.

Peace

 

[RachelsAlumni]

Yes. It is clearly written we are not to judge others.

Romans 14
The Weak and the Strong

4Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

9For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. 10You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11It is written:

• " ‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
  ‘every knee will bow before me;
  every tongue will confess to God.’ "*12
  So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.

13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another.

There is a distinction to be made between judgment as criticism which is outward directed and emotional in nature vs. discernment between good & evil which is inward directed and objective in nature. Discernment of good & evil is one of the gifts of the Holy Spirit, it is directed toward our good or sanctification and guided by the Holy Spirit.

The devil is known as “The Accuser” as opposed to The Holy Spirit who is known as “The Advocate”.