Treat this as a parable. Don’t try to read more into it than I typed. My point was: The father promised that our works help, but they don’t earn us anything. The boy still had to rely on the father to get to heaven, er, Disneyland.
No ridicual taken. Just feeling out individuals biliefs… curious.Why, of course they are, don’t be ridiculous!
Were you baptized with a Trinitarian Formula? If so, you are also Catholic… just not in perfect communion with Christ’s Church!
The problem with “keyboard-talk” is that it can’t always convey my intent. “Of course you are, don’t be ridiculous”, would have revealed my true intent if I’d been able to bring in Balki Bartocomus’ Eastern European accent (remember Bronson Pinchot in that sitcom?). Sadly, the obvious response (Protestant are Christians, and for that matter, Catholics are Christians) is not always shared by our brethren.
Then you were never really Catholic. You could not have been. All truth in protestantism came from Catholicism, including the Bible that you read…teachccd
Wow – this is a long and interesting thread…
In this discussion, I feel very much in the middle. As a Wesleyan/Arminian Pastor, I don’t buy into once saved always saved. I also firmly believe that repentance and a transformed life ALWAYS accompany true salvation. As a Liberty Univ. Grad, I am very familiar with the Calvinistic position, but I just can’t agree with it.
Here’s my 2 cents worth:
*]We all agree that confession is absolutely for salvation (Rom 10:10), as well as the Christian life (1 John 1:9). But what is confession? Clearly it is not giving God new information, because He is all knowing. The English word “confess’ is composed of two Latin words – it literally means to “say with”. When we confess our sins, we agree that God is right and we have been wrong. This is true confession.
If we really agree with God, then we will want to do his will. If we do not wish to follow the will of God, instead of the way of sin, then any “confession” we may make is mere words. It is false. True confession will always be accompanied by repentance – they are two sides of the same coin – it is impossible to have one without the other.
*]Furthermore, anyone who has truly saved is regenerate (2 Cor 5:17). We have access to the Lord’s power (Eph 6:10). We therefore have the ability to live a life of obedience, or in other words good works.
*]All of the above is by Grace.
I really think that this is a “chicken/egg” question. My Calvinistic Professors were fond of saying, “We are saved by faith alone – but the faith that saves is never alone” - meaning that it is always accompanied by good works.
The bottom line, that we should all be able to agree upon is: Without a transformed life, without good works, done by Grace through the power of the Holy Spirit, there is no Salvation.
**I now await the fate of all those who stand in middle - to be shot at by both sides
**
None taken - I consider myself to be first and foremost a member for the “catholic” (universal) church - and as such I deeply appreciate the many positive contributions of my brothers and sisters in the Catholic Church.
The unity is appreciated. TYVM.
Wow – this is a long and interesting thread…
In this discussion, I feel very much in the middle. As a Wesleyan/Arminian Pastor, I don’t buy into once saved always saved. I also firmly believe that repentance and a transformed life ALWAYS accompany true salvation. As a Liberty Univ. Grad, I am very familiar with the Calvinistic position, but I just can’t agree with it.
Here’s my 2 cents worth:
*]We all agree that confession is absolutely for salvation (Rom 10:10), as well as the Christian life (1 John 1:9). But what is confession? Clearly it is not giving God new information, because He is all knowing. The English word “confess’ is composed of two Latin words – it literally means to “say with”. When we confess our sins, we agree that God is right and we have been wrong. This is true confession.
If we really agree with God, then we will want to do his will. If we do not wish to follow the will of God, instead of the way of sin, then any “confession” we may make is mere words. It is false. True confession will always be accompanied by repentance – they are two sides of the same coin – it is impossible to have one without the other.
*]Furthermore, anyone who has truly saved is regenerate (2 Cor 5:17). We have access to the Lord’s power (Eph 6:10). We therefore have the ability to live a life of obedience, or in other words good works.
*]All of the above is by Grace.
I really think that this is a “chicken/egg” question. My Calvinistic Professors were fond of saying, “We are saved by faith alone – but the faith that saves is never alone” - meaning that it is always accompanied by good works.
The bottom line, that we should all be able to agree upon is: Without a transformed life, without good works, done by Grace through the power of the Holy Spirit, there is no Salvation.
**I now await the fate of all those who stand in middle - to be shot at by both sides
**
Because scripture (1 Thess. 5:20-21) tells me to “test all things”…that’s why!
I understand your point. I call it purple and you call it lavender. I was saying Works alone you added faith and that changes everything. I also realize the Catholic Church does not teach works alone as some Protestants lead people to belive.You earn your way to Heaven by having faith and doing Good Works, (TOGETHER) why is this so hard a thing for Protestants to understand ?
Sure, we have free will in our daily decisions, but with respect to our salvation, if God has chosen you before the foundation of time, you will not and cannot reject His gift of salvation. What’s with the Bay-bee?
Eph. 2:19:20 “having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone.” No, it is not confusing, on the contrary it is very clear. If God built His church on only one apostle, why then in this verse does He say that He built it on [all] the apostles?
No, the more work you did for God, in this life,the more Glory you give God, and in return God will Glorify you.I feel I’m taking Gods glory for the sake of my pride.
! Thess 5:21 “Test all things, hold fast what is good”.
I can understand that point of view but it still comes across as a tough pill to swallow for me thinking I could do anything to help earn salvation when I’m so un worthy.
