We ARE saved by Works.

[DiscernVoc]

Until the Canon of scripture in 300 something (someone here knows the date, hour and exact year lol) there was no bible.

The Catholic Church is the reason we have scripture because it preserved the bible during the dark ages.

Tradition preceded the Bible. I found a church father in 125 AD writing about the “real prescence” in the Eucharist.
I don’t think they had time to argue “Symbolic or literal” it was obviously literal.

Do you honestly think that “the” church has only been here for the last 600 yrs?

Visit and Orthodox Christian service and you will see how the very early church worshipped.Itt was liturgical and sacramental.

No music programs, no razzledazzle, no expository bible teaching…just the Sacraments…and look at what happened JUST on that alone.

History doesn’t back up your position…and there is
quite a bit online. Check it out yourself and keep an open mind.

I see people saying things that are not accurate about the other side of the fence as well…so don’t get all puffed up!

Barbara

So if you realize all these truths, what’s stopping you from becoming Catholic? I don’t mean this in a negative way, but it seems like you are on that path.

 

[justacloserwalk]

So if you realize all these truths, what’s stopping you from becoming Catholic? I don’t mean this in a negative way, but it seems like you are on that path.

I guess you should pray for me to discern the Lords will for my life.
I think I am not alone in this either.

Barbara

 

[guanophore]

Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.”
Our sin, but Jesus paid the penalty by dying on the cross. Why would He judge us for something that He already paid For?

1. Because not all the people whose sins were paid (all) did not get into the shopping bag and go with Jesus and
2. Even if our sins are forgiven, the effects of them remain. Remember Nathan confronting David about murdering Uriah? God tells David he has forgiven him. However, the child still dies.

Eph. 1:14 “Who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession to the praise of His glory.”
Our inheritance has a guarantee. And our sin can’t void that guarantee.

There are many ways to void a warranty, Robert. One can throw away the documentation, so that one has no proof the warantee belonged to them. One can tamper with the device, against the instructions, and void it that way.

Why do you think that Jesus teaches that blasphemy against the HS cannot be forgiven? It is because rejection of the HS voids the guarantee!

Romans 8:33 “Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.”
Our sins have been justified by God. Not by anything we have done, but by what Jesus has done.

By this reasoning, you can say that the whole world is saved, since Jesus died for the sins of all. If everyone is not saved, then Jesus only died for the sins of the “elect”.

He did say it but not in those exact words. That is what the “great commission” is all about. When you or I share the gospel with someone, we have the “keys” or the keys to salvation or heaven for them if they choose to accept God’s gift.

You are extrapolating things that are not there. Yes, we are all called to make disciples, but the keys were given to Peter. You cannot understand what this means without understanding the key of David, which was given to Christ.

 

[guanophore]

No, “It is Finished” statements, OK? You are making a MAJOR leap of Faith to mean that Jesus is talking about His Work is done and all of us “Pre-Destination’ers” can just sin our evil little hearts out because we know we’re going to heaven.

The Bible never tells us to sit on our evil little hearts, just because of our status as one of God’s chosen. Actually it is just the opposite. Read John 15:1-4.

God Bless,
Robert

And, if it were all finished, why did Jesus need the great commisssion? Why would He allow Paul to make up what was lacking through suffering.

 

[guanophore]

But Jesus will not take away His gift of salvation, because of our works, or lack of works.  "Ye are saved by grace through faith, not of works, lest any man boast."  The work of salvation was done by Jesus on the cross.

I’m not saying that works aren’t important. They are, and God will reward us for the things that we have done in His name.

No, but salvation can be lost by allowing faith to be lost. Once the HS, given to preserve the believer is pushed away, or “burned up” (fuel exhausted) there is no presence left to hold the guarantee. Observe the parable of the bridesmaids:

Matt 25:1-13
25:1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be compared to ten maidens who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. 2 Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. 3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them; 4 but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 As the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. 6 But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’ 7 Then all those maidens rose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ 9 But the wise replied, ‘Perhaps there will not be enough for us and for you; go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast; and the door was shut. 11 Afterward the other maidens came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ 12 But he replied, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ "

All were maidens.
All went out to meet the groom.
The wise kept their lamps full.
The foolish were not allowed in.

 

[guanophore]

A branch that is not abiding in Christ "is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." This is is amplified by 1 Cor 3:15:  "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so by fire."

He does say that. What is a vine supposed to do? Bear fruit. And it is pruned, if it isn’t bearing good fruit. Also, notice the word wither. If He were talking about eternal damnation, the word wither would be inappropriate. As a Christian, if we are not bearing fruit, we will wither away spiritually.

Indeed, Robert, we finally agree on something! Faith CAN wither away!

Heb 6:4-8
4 For it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. 7 For land which has drunk the rain that often falls upon it, and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is cultivated, receives a blessing from God. 8 But if it bears thorns and thistles, it is worthless and near to being cursed; its end is to be burned. "

 

[DiscernVoc]

I guess you should pray for me to discern the Lords will for my life.
I think I am not alone in this either.

Barbara

I will.