We Catholics Are Dead Sure The Church Is The One Church Of Christ And That All Others Are Mistaken

[Guyonthestreet]

Go figure…there was nothing wrong with the Catholic church at the time of the Reformation, except people like Luther who imagined it.

Even the catholic church herself does not say this.

Please cite a credible source for this claim.

Luther was a **Catholic reformer **before he became a ‘protestant’’. In other words, the catholic church had already identified serious issues in the church that needed reform before Luther did his thing!!!

You don’t know this.

Clearly.

You seem to think that you being a catholic somehow entitles you to magically know all there is to know, without having to read and study.

Here, have this for free:

newadvent.org/cathen/04437a.htm

You’re welcome

 

[jean8]

In the Nicene and Apostles’ Creed that is used by Catholic and Protestant alike afirm by stating in the catholic church which means “universal”. Also remember what "church’ also means -The Body of Christ which is not the building but the Christian community. yes the body of christ can mean also the Eucharist but that is not the subject at the moment. Read some of Aquinas, Bonhoeffer, Barth, Calvin
Peace be with all of the Children of God!
cindyfromindy

cindy,
I agree. Read Luther also.
We as christians should not be judging each other. we should be witnessing to those who are not saved.
Jesus died for his church, the body of Christ. That takes in many believing saints of many denominations.The body of Christ in the Eucharist is the Real Presense. Lutherans differ in the teaching from catholics. . I think the Lord is aware of this.

God bless,
jean

 

[jean8]

Even the catholic church herself does not say this.

Please cite a credible source for this claim.

Luther was a Catholic reformer before he became a ‘protestant’’. In other words, the catholic church had already identified serious issues in the church that needed reform before Luther did his thing!!!

You don’t know this.

Clearly.

You seem to think that you being a catholic somehow entitles you to magically know all there is to know, without having to read and study.

Here, have this for free:

newadvent.org/cathen/04437a.htm

You’re welcome

actually Luther did not intend to leave the Cathoilc church.
Have you watched the DVD, Luther. It’s interesting. You can probably rent it at a video store.
I just wached, Pope John Paul ll, starring Jon Voight Excellent movie.

God bless,
jean

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Even the catholic church herself does not say this.

Please cite a credible source for this claim.

Luther was a Catholic reformer before he became a ‘protestant’’. In other words, the catholic church had already identified serious issues in the church that needed reform before Luther did his thing!!!

You don’t know this.

Clearly.

You seem to think that you being a catholic somehow entitles you to magically know all there is to know, without having to read and study.

Here, have this for free:

newadvent.org/cathen/04437a.htm

You’re welcome

Luther, who was a Catholic monk for years, became a heretic and nothing more.

 

[Guyonthestreet]

Luther, who was a Catholic monk for years, became a heretic and nothing more.

You said

Originally Posted by OneTrueCathApos
Go figure…there was nothing wrong with the Catholic church at the time of the Reformation, except people like Luther who imagined it.

So, once again, please don’t avoid the question and answer: cite your source for claiming that there was nothing wrong with the catholic church at the time of the reformation.

You see, the catholic church itself knew it was in a mess, and had already started to reform itself, and Luther, as a catholic, was a part of that reformation, before he went his own way.

I’m happy to teach you your own church histry I’ve provided you with a link in the earlier post. Have a read. Any quesitons, get back to me. Unlike some, I dont care what denomination someone is, I’ll talk to anyone

 

[RDJ]

I can reply that they do not only seem to be so, but that they are actually dead sure. What would be the use of any bureau for the dispensing of authentic information, if the officials had to warn inquirers that there was not even certainty as to whether they had gone to the right inquiry office! No. The True church which is really Christ’s own bureau for the dispensing of authentic information to mankind in His Name, must be visibly discernible as His. The invisible and undiscernible Church theory is impossible, and as I have just said, opposed to the Will of Christ.
Furthermore, Protestants are brought up with the idea that it is not possible for any human being to locate the True Church. So they continue in religious matters to wander where they will, like people in a forest, who follow any line of tracks without bothering to ask where it leads. And they love the risky adventure of experimenting for themselves that they search Scripture for every possible text which they think will support them…go figure…

How can you be dead sure that the Catholic Church is the one true church? I can prove to you that this can’t be true, according to The Bible.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

How can you be dead sure that the Catholic Church is the one true church? I can prove to you that this can’t be true, according to The Bible.

Well, according to Jesus Christ, whose church came BEFORE the Bible, just read Timothy 3:15. Also, a church that has stood for 2,000 years, with an unbroken link from Peter until now is guided by the Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said. Everything was thoroughly Catholic in belief 2,000 years ago. There wasn’t a Protestant to see the light of day until the 15th century.
Being in the Catacombs of Rome myself, the writings on the wall are thoroughly Catholic from 2,000 years ago. Can you beat that?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

You said

So, once again, please don’t avoid the question and answer: cite your source for claiming that there was nothing wrong with the catholic church at the time of the reformation.

You see, the catholic church itself knew it was in a mess, and had already started to reform itself, and Luther, as a catholic, was a part of that reformation, before he went his own way.

I’m happy to teach you your own church histry I’ve provided you with a link in the earlier post. Have a read. Any quesitons, get back to me. Unlike some, I dont care what denomination someone is, I’ll talk to anyone

What is your point here? To defame the institution that Christ established? The point I will make is we stood for 2,000 years…count them, 2,000 years from Christ to St. Peter, until now. No other religion nor anyone else can claim this.
And you would be the last person I’d have teach me or anyone about the Catholic church. It is what it is and you have a hard time dealing with this as most non-Catholic Christians and others do.
Guided by the Holy Spirit…for 2,000 years…imagine…

 

[Guyonthestreet]

What is your point here? To defame the institution that Christ established? The point I will make is we stood for 2,000 years…count them, 2,000 years from Christ to St. Peter, until now. No other religion nor anyone else can claim this.
And you would be the last person I’d have teach me or anyone about the Catholic church. It is what it is and you have a hard time dealing with this as most non-Catholic Christians and others do.
Guided by the Holy Spirit…for 2,000 years…imagine…

My point is you are wrong. Very Wrong. I tried to help you out by pointing you to your own catholic history written by your own church, and you still deny it.

How can I be defaming the catholic church when the catholic church itself in her history, written by her, is full of the most fascinating detail of the abuses that were going on, and the admirable measures she was taking and wanted to take to address these. Luther was originally a part of this process, before he seperated himself. I gave you the link from the catholic encyclopedia. Read it.

As for your point that no other religion nor anyone else can claim this - once again, you are wrong!! The Orthodox Church can. And the Catholic Church acknowledges this. The Orthodox Church has true apostolic succession and valid sacraments.

Once again, it’s my pleasure to help you out with your own catholic religion

You’re welcome

 

[DorianGregorian]

Luther, technically speaking, never stopped being a Priest or a Catholic. Once your Baptized an indelible mark is imprinted, and once somebody receives Holy Orders, there is an indelible mark on the soul (even a Priest who is laicized does not become a layman, [The Lord hath sworn, and he will not repent: Thou art a priest for ever according to the order of Melchisedech.] Pslam 109:4 D-R).

Obviously once Luther was married, under interdict, and excommunicated he did not have the facilities to administer Sacraments or offer the Sacrifice of the Mass, however they became invalid because 5 of the Sacraments he stopped celebrating, and the intent of the Lutheran Church’s Eucharist is flawed which means it is invalid. However Baptism in the Lutheran Church is valid (as is any heretic, although until VII Baptism was* conditionally* administered if requested).

The Church’s Theology wasn’t flawed, some of the human ministers had grown corrupt, and the Liturgy was not formalized, a Mass in Rome was different from a Mass in Spain. Trent corrected these and other errors, however the fact that human ministers were corrupt, did not affect the fact that the Church is infallible. In short people in the Church can be wrong, but the Church itsself can never be wrong (And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, ***and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. ***- Matthew 16:18)

Laus Deo

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

My point is you are wrong. Very Wrong. I tried to help you out by pointing you to your own catholic history written by your own church, and you still deny it.

How can I be defaming the catholic church when the catholic church itself in her history, written by her, is full of the most fascinating detail of the abuses that were going on, and the admirable measures she was taking and wanted to take to address these. Luther was originally a part of this process, before he seperated himself. I gave you the link from the catholic encyclopedia. Read it.

As for your point that no other religion nor anyone else can claim this - once again, you are wrong!! The Orthodox Church can. And the Catholic Church acknowledges this. The Orthodox Church has true apostolic succession and valid sacraments.

Once again, it’s my pleasure to help you out with your own catholic religion

You’re welcome

The Orthodox had broken off from the true church in 1057 in unity with the pope…you are not a good source of information. Why is it that most non-Catholic’s feel they know more about the CC than the CC? I find this so amusing…

 

[Guyonthestreet]

The Orthodox had broken off from the true church in 1057 in unity with the pope…you are not a good source of information. Why is it that most non-Catholic’s feel they know more about the CC than the CC? I find this so amusing…

You don’t seem to b able to understand even your own point. Let me help you. You said no other church apart from the catholic church can claim to be founded on Christ.

I said, yes there is - the Orthodox Church.

Even the catholic chuch recognises this, because the Orthodox have true legitimate valid Apostolic Succession.

There’s some excellent reading material on the Vatican’s own website that might help you out a bit more.

The schism with Rome does not in any way affect the Orthodox’s apostolic succession.

Hmmmm… it does appear I know more about the catholic church than you do

But that’s ok - if you follow the advice you are given here, and listen, read and study, you will grow in your catholic faith I’m sure.

Oh, and don’t forget about charity. Bit deal that, charity, in catholicism

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

You don’t seem to b able to understand even your own point. Let me help you. You said no other church apart from the catholic church can claim to be founded on Christ.

I said, yes there is - the Orthodox Church.

Even the catholic chuch recognises this, because the Orthodox have true legitimate valid Apostolic Succession.

There’s some excellent reading material on the Vatican’s own website that might help you out a bit more.

The schism with Rome does not in any way affect the Orthodox’s apostolic succession.

Hmmmm… it does appear I know more about the catholic church than you do

But that’s ok - if you follow the advice you are given here, and listen, read and study, you will grow in your catholic faith I’m sure.

Oh, and don’t forget about charity. Bit deal that, charity, in catholicism

So the Catholic church recognizes that the Orthodox church was founded upon Christ too? I beg to differ. There is only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH founded by Jesus Christ, and that is the Catholic church.
And are you saying that Catholics are the only ones to practice charity? Is that why you are so rude as a non-Catholic?

 

[Guyonthestreet]

So the Catholic church recognizes that the Orthodox church was founded upon Christ too? I beg to differ. There is only ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH founded by Jesus Christ, and that is the Catholic church.
And are you saying that Catholics are the only ones to practice charity? Is that why you are so rude as a non-Catholic?

Yes I’ve noticed you beg to differ with a lot of facts you are given, even from your own church. Although, to be honest, it does sound more and more like you have your own vesion of catholicism, than the catholicicm I understand that the Pope is the leader of. You still have not answered my question on the other thread. I won’t persue it any further because I know you cant.

And yes, the catholic church does recognise the valid apostolic succession of the Orthodox church. You didn’t know that, did you See, read, study, listen. You’ll discover tons more you dont know about your catholic faith. As I told you before, catholicism is not a magic cloak you put on, and suddenly you know everything. You have to work on it. Some people have more work to do than others

Never mind. Hey, I’ll be around, and I’ll pop in and help you out every now and then. For now, I want to discuss and read about catholicism with people that know what they’re talking about

 

[RDJ]

Well, according to Jesus Christ, whose church came BEFORE the Bible, just read Timothy 3:15. Also, a church that has stood for 2,000 years, with an unbroken link from Peter until now is guided by the Holy Spirit. Just as Jesus said. Everything was thoroughly Catholic in belief 2,000 years ago. There wasn’t a Protestant to see the light of day until the 15th century.
Being in the Catacombs of Rome myself, the writings on the wall are thoroughly Catholic from 2,000 years ago. Can you beat that?

The Bible on celibacy: 1 Timothy 4:1-5
jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_idolaters.jpg
The Second Commandment: Exodus 20:4-6
I have read The Bible, and I haven’t read about anything that sounds like Purgatory. You either accept God’s gift of salvation and have eternal life or reject His will and spend eternity in Hell paying for your sins.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

The Bible on celibacy: 1 Timothy 4:1-5
jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_idolaters.jpg
The Second Commandment: Exodus 20:4-6
I have read The Bible, and I haven’t read about anything that sounds like Purgatory. You either accept God’s gift of salvation and have eternal life or reject His will and spend eternity in Hell paying for your sins.

That is because you are reading an incorrect bible. You have had seven books taken from you by Luther himself.
Remember this Scripture passage which reads:
"Saved, but only as through fire"
You Protestants agree that real Holiness is a requirement from Heaven, but disagree with the purification process, believing instead in some sort of “instantaneous” transformation at death for the redeemed.
Scriptural evidence for Purgatory:
**Psalm 66:12
Ecclesiastes 12:14
Isaiah 4:4
Isaiah 6:5-7
2 Maccabees 12:39-42, 44-45
Matthew 5:22
Matthew 5:25-26
Matthew 12:32
1 Cor 3:11-15
2 Cor 5:10 (Sins are judged here rather than forgiven).
**

 

[Harpazo]

The Orthodox had broken off from the true church in 1057 in unity with the pope…you are not a good source of information. Why is it that most non-Catholic’s feel they know more about the CC than the CC? I find this so amusing…

OTCA,

We Orthodox would say that Rome separated from us. The schism happened in 1054 for Cardinal Umbert and another legate barged into Hagia Sophia and placed a Bull of Excommunication on the altar during Divine Liturgy.

And your Church does teach that we are a sister Church and we were founded by Christ. So, no go there, OTCA.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

OTCA,

We Orthodox would say that Rome separated from us. The schism happened in 1054 for Cardinal Umbert and another legate barged into Hagia Sophia and placed a Bull of Excommunication on the altar during Divine Liturgy.

And your Church does teach that we are a sister Church and we were founded by Christ. So, no go there, OTCA.

In Christ,
Andrew

Well you Orthodox could say anything couldn’t you. But we Catholics are dead sure that We are the true church. And I will go there.

 

[Harpazo]

Well you Orthodox could say anything couldn’t you. But we Catholics are dead sure that We are the true church. And I will go there.

Are you implying that I am lying? Simply read some history regarding that time period and look it up your Catechism or any post-conciliar documents from Vatican II. These are the hard facts. No lies, no deception. Pure facts.

And we are dead sure that we are the true Church of Christ as well. We recognize our Roman brethren as Apostolic. I’m sorry to hear that you cannot do the same, even though your Church does.

In Christ,
Andrew

 

[Guyonthestreet]

And your Church does teach that we are a sister Church and we were founded by Christ. So, no go there, OTCA.

In Christ,
Andrew

Do you seriously think she is going to let a little matter as trivial as the official teachings of the catholic church interfer with her interpretation of catholicism