We Changed the Church and Regret It

[ProVobis]

I’d rather have translations from the Church, right or wrong, than from a non-Church source.

But even those within the Church and the Vatican disagree on the translations. Aside from initial adverse reaction to the OF, the Latin texts have never really been the issue or centers of controversy. And who’s talking about non-Church sources for translations anyway?

Here’s what Cardinal Arinze says on the matter:

"The Latin liturgy expresses not only facts but also our feelings, our sentiments, for example, in front of God’s transcendence, majesty, mercy and boundless love (cf. Liturgiam Authenticam, n. 25). Expressions like ‘Te igitur, clementissime Pater’, ‘Supplices te rogamus’, ‘Propitius esto’, ‘veneremur cernui’, ‘Omnipotens et misericors Dominus’, ‘nos servi tui’, should not be deflated and democratized by some translating iconoclast.

“Some of these Latin expressions are difficult to translate. The best experts in liturgy, classics, patrology, theology, spirituality, music and literature are needed so that translations beautiful on the lips of holy Mother Church can be worked out. Translations should reflect that reverence, gratitude and adoration before God’s transcendent majesty and man’s hunger for God which are very clear in the Latin texts.”

Yet he doesn’t really say (and I haven’t found any sources) that they meet this objective.

 

[ProVobis]

Eastern Catholics do accept the Papacy, I wonder how Latin gets into that equation?

Here’s how. As Pope John XXIII eloquently states in Veterum Sapientia:

Venerable languages

The Church has ever held the literary evidences of this wisdom in the highest esteem. She values especially the Greek and Latin languages in which wisdom itself is cloaked, as it were, in a vesture of gold. She has likewise welcomed the use of other venerable languages, which flourished in the East. For these too have had no little influence on the progress of humanity and civilization. By their use in sacred liturgies and in versions of Holy Scripture, they have remained in force in certain regions even to the present day, bearing constant witness to the living voice of antiquity.

A primary place

But amid this variety of languages a primary place must surely be given to that language which had its origins in Latium, and later proved so admirable a means for the spreading of Christianity throughout the West.

And since in God’s special Providence this language united so many nations together under the authority of the Roman Empire – and that for so many centuries – it also became the rightful language of the Apostolic See.3 Preserved for posterity, it proved to be a bond of unity for the Christian peoples of Europe.

The nature of Latin

Of its very nature Latin is most suitable for promoting every form of culture among peoples. It gives rise to no jealousies. It does not favor any one nation, but presents itself with equal impartiality to all and is equally acceptable to all.

Nor must we overlook the characteristic nobility of Latin for mal structure. Its "concise, varied and harmonious style, full of majesty and dignity"4 makes for singular clarity and impressiveness of expression.

 

[ProVobis]

What value is the correct word in Latin if the people understand it to be a different word anyway?

Is that the fault of Latin or the crazy, ever-changing vernacular you were raised in? No one owes you a precise translation because many times something either can’t be translated at all or it can easily be misinterpreted. Either it’s important in your life to understand the untranslated truth or it isn’t.

 

[ProVobis]

What value is the correct word in Latin if the people understand it to be a different word anyway?

Is that the fault of Latin or the crazy, ever-changing, illiterate-influenced, and monophonic vernacular you were raised in? No one owes you a precise translation because many times something either can’t be translated at all or it can easily be misinterpreted. Either it’s important in your life to understand the untranslated truth or it isn’t.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Latin, as a ‘dead’ language, does not change. Our vernacular acquires vulgar connotations all the time, especially in these ‘tolerant’ times. Learn Latin yourself and you need no translation. Priests do this. Schoolchildren used to. Thus the faith is preserved for the next generation, intact.
See above.
The Holy Spirit is used to excuse what Men want, these days. Bishops are men. Men make mistakes. The Holy Spirit may also simply be giving we mortals what we’ve wanted for hundreds of years: modernism, an updated faith, to teach us a lesson. Also, free will is involved. The hierarchy has decided to go down this road. The faith will remain. Solemn worship will be preserved here and there. Whatever is not godly will perish in time. And thus, I hope, the Church wil be inoculated against modernism and experimentation for two hundred years.

It’s said on our behalf, but we are not its focus. With ad-orientem, lay lectors, EMHCs, the vernacular and ‘the People’s Mass’ the laity might think their presence is essential. It simply isn’t. It’s an offering made by the priest, for his intention. Do you agree that a valid Mass can be said without a congregation?

yes, you are right. i have heard all kinds of worldly names added to the word Mass. right now i read in the paper that i got from Church, it says. 7:00 PM Kickoff Mass. what in the world is this?

 

[At_Trent]

yes, you are right. i have heard all kinds of worldly names added to the word Mass. right now i read in the paper that i got from Church, it says. 7:00 PM Kickoff Mass. what in the world is this?

One that starts at 6:15 and ends at 6:30 so everyone makes it home for the kickoff…at 7

 

[wisdomseeker]

One that starts at 6:15 and ends at 6:30 so everyone makes it home for the kickoff…at 7

 

[At_Trent]

We are united in Faith, not language. Its faith that unites us. If we think its language, then we got it all wrong.

Agreed, but Latin would serve to bolster that unity, don’t you think ?

 

[At_Trent]

I kid you not. I have been to a 4:15 pm Saturday Mass were the priest who normally gives a nice homily climbs the pulpit and says “I know everyone is excited about the game, so I’ll be brief” And he was, very brief.

 

[pnewton]

yes, you are right. i have heard all kinds of worldly names added to the word Mass. right now i read in the paper that i got from Church, it says. 7:00 PM Kickoff Mass. what in the world is this?

Was the kick-off for some program, like CCE or CYO? It is fall after all.