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Robert_Simmons
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I’ve heard Protestant “Revolt” used.
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nucatholic
Guest
hm all I could think of was “The Great Blunder”
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Annunciata
Guest
I’m with you Amanda,
I was only looking for for a similar word and since my understanding was the subject to be another word for Protestant Reformation, I thought my response was appropriate. Sorry if it was taken to be offensive.
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Shibboleth
Guest
Still at 23 and holding strong.
Sorry if I came off a bit strong. One of the big drawbacks of the www is that sometimes humor travels very poorly over electronic mediums. If all of use were sitting at a coffee shop talking about this subject, I probably would have had no objection and would have laughed and added a few in jest. Unfortunately over the medium of the Internet it is difficult to perceive one’s intent. I cannot determine if some of the statements were meant to be derogatory in their seriousness or loose banter.
If they were simply leisurely jests then I am sorry that I was judgmental on the subject.
Sorry if I came off a bit strong. One of the big drawbacks of the www is that sometimes humor travels very poorly over electronic mediums. If all of use were sitting at a coffee shop talking about this subject, I probably would have had no objection and would have laughed and added a few in jest. Unfortunately over the medium of the Internet it is difficult to perceive one’s intent. I cannot determine if some of the statements were meant to be derogatory in their seriousness or loose banter.
If they were simply leisurely jests then I am sorry that I was judgmental on the subject.
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Annunciata
Guest
Very nice! I was feeling very badly about offending you…I don’t know why I even commented on the subject anyway. I’m sorry.
p.s. I think I need a vacation from this forum
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Shibboleth
Guest
Please do not take a vacation from this forum, especially based on what I stated. This morning I was thinking, “My goodness, if Kerry wins the election I do not know if I will be able to stomach some of the things that will be said on this message board system.” What I finally concluded is that I will have to be very picky and careful about what threads I choose to read for a while and participate in…Very nice! I was feeling very badly about offending you…I don’t know why I even commented on the subject anyway. I’m sorry.
p.s. I think I need a vacation from this forum
I am on this web site because I do cherish the things that Catholic individuals have to teach me. Often times on Protestant web sites Catholics get treated so harshly that I cannot stomach reading any threads where a Catholic has been kind enough to add his or her beliefs. So I never really get a chance to learn about Catholicism. That is why I get equally upset when I see the opposite happen.
So please do not stop teaching people like me on this message board system, it the best place people like me can go.
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Servant1
Guest
I agree, Shibboleth. Same with your previous short post.
Perhaps this thread is or should be seen as an exercise in restrained invective. No matter the opinion of clever name used to call the Reformation something else, centuries of literature and discourse have set the mold. It is not going to change. The phenomenon, the age, the activities, the whole of the Reformation will CONTINUE to be referred to and discussed using the term REFORMATION. Like or not, good or bad, accurate or inaccurate. Live with it. It ain’t gonna change, and there are more important things to crusade about.
Charis kai eirene!
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Apologia100
Guest
As a tremendous football fan, I vote for “Christian Free Agency”. Considering most non-Catholic denoms attempt to woo propsective congregants with fancy billboard slogans, TV and radio advertising, theatre style productions, big-screen TVs, live music, charismatic ministers, and after service socials, I think it is perfect. It functions just like pro-sports free agency, teams woo potential players with money, “team accomplishment” etc… So, if someone says they are a Protestant, just think, “Free Agent”. They are then either under contract, which means they have a church they like and aren’t likely to leave. THey are Restricted Free Agents, which means they are in a church, but the thought of leaving has crossed their minds (be advised, it is usually because of doctrinal reasons). Finally, they could be Unrestricted Free Agents, meaning they are unchurched, but looking. They could also be retired, which means they have given up on “religion” and have settled for a life of spiritual dormancy.
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larryo
Guest
I believe the rebellion launched by Martin Luther would be better termed the “Deformation.” What did the so-called Reformation reform? My understanding of 16th century history concludes that the true reformation came about through the Catholic Council of Trent. Protestantism is the greatest disaster to befall the Church since the heresies of Arius and Mohammed. Regarding Islam, I’m using the term “heresy” in the sense employed by Hillaire Belloc in his book, The Great Heresies.
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Apologia100
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Catholicism I believe uses heresy to describe Mohamedism, because it is a corruption of Catholicism (remember, Islam started in the 7th century, way before the Deformation, or Christian Free Agency Period, or whatever). Without Christianity, there would never have been an Islam.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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I do not believe that there is any evidence that Mohammad was a Catholic, so it is not a heresy.
According to St Thomas, a heresy is defined as “a species of infidelity in men who, having professed the faith of Christ, corrupt its dogmas”.
As there is no evidence that Mohammad ever professed a faith in Christ, it is not a heresy.
I do not even think the Church teaches this.
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Apologia100
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Point take, I guess one would call it heterodoxy then, as you aptly described, Mohamed was not a baptised Catholic, so therefore could not be a heretic. It is still heterodoxy, because it has its roots embedded within Catholicism, but is a corruption of such.
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Friar_David_O.Carm
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This I can agree with 100%.
If you look at Islam, and (if you are stong in the Faith) read a bit of the Qur’an, you will see that much is taken not only from the Church but also from the Jewish Faith.
As you say, it is a corruption of the Faith.
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Stylite
Guest
Robert Simmons:
-Stylite
Dr. Warren Carroll usues that term in his history series. A reformation tries to fix problems, while a revolt tries to change the fundamental structure of something. The true Catholic reformation came with the Council of Trent and the great saints who went to work trying to fix the abuses in the Church.
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Fidelis
Guest
Robert Simmons:
This is also what I hear increasingly used. Works for me.
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parishminister
Guest
I am sure that all of the Catholics on these forums are really very sad that the Reformation ever happened…after all, because of that point in Church history, we are separated from our Christian brethren. While we may all agree that Luther made a big mistake, we should not forget that some of his points (in terms of abuses) were quite valid, though Church officials named him a heretic and put a price on his head (so he never had a chance to defend his case).
Let’s all remember that we are called to love one another, as Jesus loved us…regardless of schisms, reformations and heresies.
I am very glad that so many non-Catholics choose to spend time
on these forums…let’s not become like some of the forums Shibboleth described, talking badly about other Christians, even for the sake of getting a laugh. Yes, we should have a sense of humor, but not at each other’s expense.
Pax Chrisit…
Let’s all remember that we are called to love one another, as Jesus loved us…regardless of schisms, reformations and heresies.
I am very glad that so many non-Catholics choose to spend time
on these forums…let’s not become like some of the forums Shibboleth described, talking badly about other Christians, even for the sake of getting a laugh. Yes, we should have a sense of humor, but not at each other’s expense.
Pax Chrisit…
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Stylite
Guest
Parishminister,
Yes, you are right that we must be charitable to our Christian (and non-Christian) brothers in these forums. Catholic truth speaks loudly enough for itself.
However, precision isn’t a bad thing. Properly speaking, Luther may have started as a reformer, but became a revolutionary when he attempted to fundamentally change the Church. Objectively speaking, this shouldn’t be offensive to anyone. Or is it?
God Bless,
Stylite
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parishminister
Guest
Agreed, the Truth should never be offensive to anyone, as long as it is offered in love and not used as a weapon:heart: ,as St. Francis of Assisi said “Preach the Gospel at all times…if necessary, use words”.
Peace…
Peace…
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Catholic_Eagle
Guest
How about “Hell’s delight” or “joy”
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Zski01
Guest
I sense a lot of animosity on these replies to the original post.
Just remember, Protestants are Christians. They are people who have responded to God’s grace, just as we have, to enter into justification under the blood of His Son. They are in pursuit of the truth just as we are.
If you view Protestants as the Catechism calls them (“separated brethren”) I think you’ll find your time in dialogue (not arguing, but dialogue) as fruitful and filled with mutual respect.
The Reformation was not all bad: there were some abuses of the Church back then. I don’t see Martin Luther or John Calvin or Zwingli as saints by a long shot, but I think that you need to read their writings to understand their complaints, misplaced as I believe they were, and understand what they were arguing.
Just remember, Protestants are Christians. They are people who have responded to God’s grace, just as we have, to enter into justification under the blood of His Son. They are in pursuit of the truth just as we are.
If you view Protestants as the Catechism calls them (“separated brethren”) I think you’ll find your time in dialogue (not arguing, but dialogue) as fruitful and filled with mutual respect.
The Reformation was not all bad: there were some abuses of the Church back then. I don’t see Martin Luther or John Calvin or Zwingli as saints by a long shot, but I think that you need to read their writings to understand their complaints, misplaced as I believe they were, and understand what they were arguing.
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