We need more nuns!

[cara1]

Interesting thread on Phatmass.com Vocation Station right now about communicating with women’s religious orders and the number that simply don’t answer emails or snail mail in a timely fashion, or not at all. Not even to acknowledge receipt or say ‘we’re busy and will get back to you’ , etc. Nada.

It sounds from the multiple posters reporting this problem that often those in charge are older, which means they may not be familiar with email. Others may realize immediately that the candidate is not suitable, but don’t want to say as much. Still, this is not the way to deal with the problem.

Many inquirers appear to be unable to visit communities for financial reasons. If any foundation or money source wants to increase vocations, funding visits to religious houses may be a relatively inexpensive and productive way to encourage them. Inquirers might immediately see that they actually don’t have a vocation, or that a particular house is not for them. Others might be very attracted to a community they hadn’t previously considered seriously. Vocation personnel might realize that an inquirer is potentially suitable, though not sounding so in an email.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

A few years back I wrote to a convent in England, enquiring after the possibility of Retreat; to receive in return post a letter addressed to “Kevina Wilson” enthusiastically asking after my plans for establishing the Order in Australia. True story, believe it or not

…

And since we distinguish Institutes bound by solemn vows and approved by the Sovereign Pontiff from Institutes with simple vows, the expression “Religious Order” has been naturally applied exclusively to Institutes with solemn vows.
At first sight there may appear to be little to distinguish between a Religious Order and a Religious Congregation. The difference, however, is really fundamental. It lies in the nature of the vows taken by their members; in an Order they are solemn, in a Congregation they are simple. The difference between the two practically amounts to this, that simple vows are readily dispensed; while solemn vows are relaxed only in extreme cases. The bodies in which solemn vows are taken are alone properly called Religious Orders.

For more than a hundred years The Holy See has ceased to permit solemn vows in new congregations

 

[Gertabelle]

Domincan Sisters of Mary Mother of the Eucharist (their website)

Founded in 1997 with 4 Sisters
We’ve grown to over 100 Sisters in just 14 years
Average age of the Sisters is 28
Average age of the women who enter is 21
Teachers

Carmelite Sisters of the Most Sacred Heart of Los Angeles (their website)

Autonomous religious institute since 1983 (foundress came to US as religious refugee in 1927 – she is now Venerable Mother Luisita)
Six postulants entered last September (only one entrance day a year)
Education
Healthcare
Retreat work
Strict adherence to the Magisterium and Caremlite spirituality

Poor Clare Nuns of Roswell, NM (their website)

Strictly cloistered contemplatives
What they have to say about their lives and their work:

*“What is the sum total of night vigils, fast and abstinence, silence and prayer, withdrawal and work? What does a lifetime of penance produce? Joy. In a world dizzy with pleasure, there is a dearth of joy. In a welter of luxuries, there is a drought of Christian gaiety. But to the martyrs who sang on their scaffolds, to the confessors who laughed in their labors, to the virgins who despised earthly prestige and station for the love of Christ, the Poor Clares add their humble testimony: it is in giving that we receive. **And giving all, we receive all joy. ***“I will see you again and your heart will rejoice. And your joy no man shall take from you” (Jn 16:22). The contemplative’s heart already rejoices as her whole life keeps watch for his coming.”

Gertie

 

[Captain_America]

Once getting nuns/brothers/priests “signing up” it’s then difficult getting a candidate to stay -

• the work load has to be shared between fewer physically able members;
• there’s a strain on relationships. People need people their own age to relate to and
• If the community is one of aged, does the postulant face the realistic prospects of becoming a geriatric nurse to the others?

Very good points. I’ll add some:

-in teaching, the ability to substantially influence the direction of many people’s lives, on an intellectual and personal basis
-intellectual stimulation and growth
-shared mission. . . both of the order and of the school; it is, in 2011, increasingly rare in the business world for anyone to stay at one place for any length of time, to pursue long-term professional and personal goals

The age factor you mention is important, but again, this is an opportunity to show leadership in dealing with the challenge.

I’m guessing one reason for the nun-dearth is that there must’ve been some amazing changes for women in the 1960s, which led some portion of those who would’ve otherwise been Religious to pursue other directions, perhaps without regard to a personal call.

 

[debraran]

Yes, even in the secular world, when women could be more than teachers and nurses, they dropped also. Even today, some say many teachers aren’t of the caliber of “their day” because it isn’t a sought out field for many reasons and “the best and brightest” will go elsewhere. I don’t agree with all of that but there is some truth to it.

There was also, in many cultures a stigma if you weren’t married by 24 back in the 60’s and maybe even the 70’s to some degree. I remember my nephew being bombarded with “when are you getting married?” and some just being single wasn’t something that was accepted. Some religious might have went into the seminary or convent to just escape, now it’s much more thought out and choices are many. I think vocations now will be more genuine and lasting and I pray for more.

I remember a young woman asking how to know it was God calling and not just wanting to leave this hurried, not always pleasant world. I think many communites can tell that better now and if it isn’t a true vocation, you will know soon enough.

I don’t have the exact quote, but I remember a nun in an old movie telling a young girl, “Being a nun isn’t something you become because you are running away from something, it is something you are running too”.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Escape – chances are if the reasons for escape are the reasons for entering one will find oneself “escaping” from the Religious community one has joined. Not leaving and not associating.
I wonder if numbers entering Religious Life – community or priestly vocation - is related to state of the economy.

 

[debraran]

Kevin, I think so to some degree and I’ve heard priests talk about that also.
When a priest I know, who was in his 60’s at the time, talked of the large vocations then, he said, Deb you have to understand too the depression and economy helped. “3 squares and a bed” he went on to say. Men who weren’t smart enough or talented enough or rich enough to go to college or get a trade, saw the priesthood as a viable career. They had back then, a nice parish, rectory, 2 or 3 priests to help them, some had a cook/housekeeper, stipend, vacations, family nearby many times to supplement income/extras, LOTS of respect, the only downside to some, was not having a wife. He didn’t mean they weren’t reverent or good Catholics, but the draw wasn’t from just a “call” alone, they made a conscious decision. Some left that did that, some didn’t. That explained why he would say sometimes, “That priest is very smart” in admiration, many smart ones he said eventually left and got careers.

I have read posts about men wanting to know if loans will be forgiven and although sometimes a young man is sponsored, today, with student loans so high, I think they make it clear, they have to pay it back if they leave within so many years. It’s not fair to get the help and then not follow through.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

Kevin, I think so to some degree and I’ve heard priests talk about that also.
When a priest I know, who was in his 60’s at the time, talked of the large vocations then, he said, Deb you have to understand too the depression and economy helped. “3 squares and a bed” he went on to say. Men who weren’t smart enough or talented enough or rich enough to go to college or get a trade, saw the priesthood as a viable career. They had back then, a nice parish, rectory, 2 or 3 priests to help them, some had a cook/housekeeper, stipend, vacations, family nearby many times to supplement income/extras, LOTS of respect, the only downside to some, was not having a wife. He didn’t mean they weren’t reverent or good Catholics, but the draw wasn’t from just a “call” alone, they made a conscious decision. Some left that did that, some didn’t. That explained why he would say sometimes, “That priest is very smart” in admiration, many smart ones he said eventually left and got careers.

 

[debraran]

That’s why if you think you have a vocation, you should try to go to college as cheaply as you can. That said, since “cheap” is relative and most colleges are so expensive (I have 3 in) it’s very hard to say, “We want educated nuns” for instance and then they have to pay off the loans. I can also see if they were able too help you, that it wouldn’t be without restrictions for reasons you stated, it’s not the army.

I realize it was easy to join then although this priest said if someone didn’t like you, they could make it very hard. He said when some guys slipped out one night to go to a dance (they were very young and still impulsive) they were punished but he was told he wouldn’t make it, and his superior was very hard on him…he made it though, he said God must have wanted him to finish, but it wasn’t very hard to get through most of the work, it was more who you knew, behavior, etc.
He found his place in a hospital at first and later as the attending priest, he didn’t want to be the pastor, but later as priests dwindled, he had to be and he did fine.He had a deacon to help him and said the 2 or 3 to a parish is a thing of the past except in orders like the Dominicans.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

There’s now mentoring for priests - it’s different from vocational spiritual direction and guidance. It’s more a sort of “orientation to practicality of priesthood” by a priest who has been in the ministry for a while longer than oneself. A big brother project for priests. Believe it or not when a person is ordained they are “lost” needing to be re-orientated. I suppose it’s easier if one comes from a Catholic family, but even then one’s worldview is challenged, a different perspective sets in. Like having children of one’s own.

It may help to shop around for a psychiatrist/psychologist who understands one’s situation - I had one who thought it a mental illness to want to “shut oneself off from the world” and for a person to “talk to God” and explanation she labelled paranoia; and recommended me see a specialist! So much for secular assessment of a spiritual subject. As I say, worth a second, or third opinion.

And one is possibly wise “shopping around” looking at different forms of Religious Life - helps to gain insight at what’s out there and settle down when decisions are made. A bit like looking for a life partner.

And wise to remember that not everything that happens to you is aimed at you. Much of the time, it’s about the person dealing out the abuse.

 

[janessa1850]

Yes, more nuns are needed greatly everywhere. As some of you stated, it was the nuns who taught Catholic youth and most of those entering religious life have had good Catholic examples that they have learned from, including Sisters who taught them in school. As teachers, they could formulate the child’s conscience, bring them up with the morals and teachings of Jesus and act as holy examples. We now have so few holy examples to mentor children. All is corrupt, Christ was thrown out of the public schools, families are disconnected, society is largely do-whatever-you-can-get-away-with philosophy. Furthermore, nuns must be many, and recognizable as persons who have chosen to lead holy lives for the joy of being united with Christ. Nuns must not be invisible or seen in polyester pantsuits. I saw a quote–I don’;t remember the sources—“When religious orders blend in, they disappear.” When Sisters do secular-type work with other secular career-minded folks and dress like everyone else, it is difficult to see their Witness to a Sacrificial Life as a Bride of Christ. I believe nuns should be easily identifiable, be seen in public, and seen as living a “radical” commitment to the Gospels which involves sacrifice, fervent prayer, and Gospel values such as love, reduction of self and ego, and the ability to give of themselves. Oh, the person who posted the 2 or 3 websites and gave facts about the orders, thank you. BTW does anyone know where I can get hold of photos of Maryknoll Sisters back before VII or historical information about their work in Asia? What I’ve found so far is uncaptioned and unverifiable. Thanks!

 

[Captain_America]

re: comments about “mistaken vocations”

Fact of the matter is, I know at least two classmates of mine that put the energy, time and money into law school—hated it—were forced to practice until they could make their escape. They, too, found their skills “useless” and had to adjust. (Actually, in the 2011 economy, we ALL adjust and get to change our ponies now and then).

I might sound like I’m making light of the matter, but a considerable number of people find they don’t like, or aren’t fit, for what they first thought they should do.

Part of this is normal human second-guessing and wish-making; magical thinking that one could be president or have been a millionaire, and so forth, if he had just, etc., etc. … and of course there’s a tendency to think the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

My post was generated by seeing, over a period of years, responses from retiring or older nuns about how very happy they were/have been in their profession. And also then having a teacher friend talk about how different teaching is from typical jobs; for him, there’s a more serious connection to his work than the average guy has.

 

[Schroder]

Interesting thread on Phatmass.com Vocation Station right now about communicating with women’s religious orders and the number that simply don’t answer emails or snail mail in a timely fashion, or not at all. Not even to acknowledge receipt or say ‘we’re busy and will get back to you’ , etc. Nada.

It sounds from the multiple posters reporting this problem that often those in charge are older, which means they may not be familiar with email. Others may realize immediately that the candidate is not suitable, but don’t want to say as much. Still, this is not the way to deal with the problem.

.

.

My friend is a Poor Clare Nun in her 70’s. She’s more clued up about emails etc than I am. She has a terrific sense of humour and is as au fait as the rest of us with what is going on in the world
Nuns are very astute but totally honest and I am absolutely certain that they would find a kind and compassionate way of suggesting to someone that Religious Life was not what they are being called to. Those in charge are often older as you say but they are full of wisdom; humour; compassion; love; etc etc. In other words they are Christ filled and it shows!
I also believe that if someone wanted to go and visit them but did not have the financial means to do so, they should be ‘upfront’ about it as I’m reasonably certain that a way round this could be found.
I never cease to be amazed and thankful that nuns are not at all like those who taught me at school. I thought they were not allowed to smile!
The nuns I know now, both Anglican and Catholic are some of the most ‘feet on the ground’ loving people I have had the privilege of coming to know.
I was so happy when one of them came to our wedding ( many years ago) and still cherish the beautiful vase they gave me.

Below is a quote from Father Stephen Wang of the Diocese of Westminster in the UK. Taken from an article he wrote about “What Is A Vocation” I find it hugely encouraging
“He promises us, by giving us his Holy Spirit, that he will help us to find our true happiness in following him, and that he will give us whatever we need for the journey. You already have a vocation. This vocation to holiness is already a part of your life, given to you at your baptism, and it is so important to remember that. Whatever situation you are in now, however unsatisfactory it seems, you already have a vocation. You might be working, studying, travelling, unemployed, or caring for someone at home; you might be very content, or utterly miserable; full of hope, or close to despair. Whatever your situation, you can trust that God is with you, and that he calls you to be holy in this very situation. Things may well change – and perhaps they need to. But at this moment you must have the confidence to believe that even now there is a meaning and a purpose to your life; and that you can begin to fulfil that by everyday acts of love and kindness and patience.”

I find this hugely encouraging.

 

[cerad2]

I know the RCC does not allow women to become priests. Just out of curiosity, is there a similar prohibition on men becoming nuns?

 

[Ocarm]

I know the RCC does not allow women to become priests. Just out of curiosity, is there a similar prohibition on men becoming nuns?

Although the term is (wrongly) used generically to mean any female religious, ‘nuns’ are specifically women living in an enclosed religious house. Their male equivalents, therefore, are monks, who also live the monastic and contemplative life. So no, there is no prohibition on men and women living similar expressions of religious life.

This wasn’t always the case, however: for a long time the monastic life of a nun was pretty much the only form of community religious life permitted for women, whereas men could also live more active community life as friars or canons regular. Later on institutes like the Daughters of Charity (dating to the early 17th century) were permitted to work outside the enclosure, thereby establishing the principles of apostolic female religious life, which is very common within the modern church. Although these religious sisters are often referred to as ‘nuns’ this is not strictly accurate, because as I said above, that term should only be used for enclosed women.

And that was probably a lot more information than you needed. Hope I wasn’t too pedantic.

 

[KEVIN_WILCOX]

With Church numbers falling since Vatican 2 and places being filled by immigrant Catholics from conservative/orthodox countries we might be seeing a second flowering of Religious Life.