"We"re all going the same place anyways"

[MaryRita85]

I need some help responding to this phrase. I just entered into the Church on Easter Vigil and though I know we are the One True Church and am in the process of reading through the whole bible, I need help defending our faith, hopefully in a non-threatening way. I believe particular Bible verses would help, and I know I have read some that I would like to use, but I can’t remember where I read them. I was speaking with someone, who is a Protestant, that said that all Christians are going to the same place and that I just choose to worship differently. I don’t want to offend though because this person appears to be very open to Catholicism, they just don’t yet think it matters.
I know this is not true, the Apostolic Succession and their teachings as opposed to Sola Scriptura, the Sacraments…so the Holy Body and Blood, and going to Confession…etc is what makes the huge difference. I need to know how to explain this while not sounding like a know-it-all since I am so new to the faith. Any advice or help,I’m not the most tactful person? Thanks!

 

[JerryZ]

Matthew 16:19

I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Then JESUS reaffirmed the binding and loosing to the 12 Apostles in
Matthew 18:18
Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Note the singular, HE gave the keys to 1 person Peter and his successors not to pope Jerry or Smith or anyone that comes along and claims they have a NEW revelation and HE told the Disciples they could bind and loose too.
Where are the present Disciples of Jesus?
The Catholic Church Bishops are the only ones that:
a) can claim to have been appointed to the Holy Office from an umbroken chain to the 12
b) are in full communion with the 1 Bishop that is in the Chair of Peter.

WE have been warned in:

2 Peter’s 2:1
But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in [1] destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction
[1] Or sects of perdition

1 Jhon 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

 

[RoseMary131]

I need some help responding to this phrase.

. I was speaking with someone, who is a Protestant, that said that all Christians are going to the same place and that I just choose to worship differently.

Does this person mean: “All Christians go to Heaven when they die.”?

 

[Joe_5859]

If we love someone, don’t we want to know them as they truly are rather than simply concocting an image of them in our mind?

The same goes for God. God revealed Himself to the human race in a particular way. We desire to love Him. We want to spend eternity with Him in heaven. Therefore, it should be important to us to actively seek to know Him as He really is rather than as we imagine.

We certainly hold out hope for the salvation of all people. But the only sure means of getting to Heaven is to follow what has been revealed. And that all points to Jesus and what He has passed on to us through the Catholic Church.

 

[MaryRita85]

Thanks guys!
And yes those were some of the verses I meant, how can I memorize where everything is???
Also, yes, that means as long as you believe in God and are a “good” person, you will get into Heaven.
And now that I have the knowledge, you are so right, I do feel that it is my responsibility to inform others. I just want to do it in the best way.My confidence, in my self, is lacking that I will be able to discuss.

 

[prayerandstudy]

And now that I have the knowledge, you are so right, I do feel that it is my responsibility to inform others. I just want to do it in the best way.My confidence, in my self, is lacking that I will be able to discuss.

I understand being hesitant to discuss. The times that God has been able to use me in sharing with others are after I have prayed ahead of time. Pray that God will guide you through the Holy Spirit and that He will guide your conversation. Also, remember that you are only responsible for sharing whatever God leads you to share. You are not responsible for converting anyone. That is the job of the Holy Spirit and most times we are only links in a chain of people who speak and otherwise give witness to the one in need of conversion. Continue to learn our faith. The Catechism of the Catholic Church is a great resource. Pray. And let God lead you to share what and when He wants you to. I hope that helps.

 

[MaryRita85]

You know I never even thought of that, I felt like it was my “duty” so to speak. But it’s true, no one would have been able to convert me, I was spoken to about the Church and apparently I retained that information for when the Holy Spirit moved me!

 

[SonCatcher]

Have this person look at the parable of the talents. One person begins with five, another with two and still another with one. The servants with five and two go and do commerce with their respective talents (while the servant with one does nothing).

The servants who do commerce each double what they have. However, the second still finishes with less than the first started with. They both receive a reward, ruling over the cities of their master’s dominion. However, one’s reward is greater than the other’s. Which one? The very one that received a greater share in the beginning.

The Catholic Church possesses the fullness of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Those who keep all that she teaches and advance the Gospel in the same will receive a greater reward than what is possible outside the Church. (At times like this, I feel it obligatory to mention that entering Heaven includes one free Church membership )

The third servant serves as a cautionary tale. Even though he shared in his master’s gifts, he was ultimately removed not just from service but from the master’s household owing to his slothfulness. This is one passage that demonstrates a Christian can indeed lose his inheritance of eternal life.

 

[Joe_5859]

You know I never even thought of that, I felt like it was my “duty” so to speak. But it’s true, no one would have been able to convert me, I was spoken to about the Church and apparently I retained that information for when the Holy Spirit moved me!

Fraternal correction is a work of mercy we should all take seriously, but there are conditions to be met before we are obligated to offer it:

• the delinquency to be corrected or prevented is a grievous one;
• there is no good reason to believe that the sinner will adequately provide for himself;
• there is a well-founded expectation that the admonition will be heeded;
• there is no one else just as well fitted for this work of Christian charity and likely to undertake it;
• there is no special trouble or disadvantage accruing to the reformer as a result of his zeal.

 

[berk60]

Matthew 16:19

I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Then JESUS reaffirmed the binding and loosing to the 12 Apostles in
Matthew 18:18
Verily I say unto you, what things soever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven; and what things soever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Note the singular, HE gave the keys to 1 person Peter and his successors not to pope Jerry or Smith or anyone that comes along and claims they have a NEW revelation and HE told the Disciples they could bind and loose too.
Where are the present Disciples of Jesus?
The Catholic Church Bishops are the only ones that:
a) can claim to have been appointed to the Holy Office from an umbroken chain to the 12
b) are in full communion with the 1 Bishop that is in the Chair of Peter.

WE have been warned in:

2 Peter’s 2:1
But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in [1] destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction
[1] Or sects of perdition

1 Jhon 4:1
Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Since the “keys” were given to Peter and passed to his successors “Catholic Church” does the Church have the authority to revoke someones salvation by an anathema? In other words is God the only one who has the authority to damn someone to hell as in Matthew 10:28 or are there others?
I have left the RCC and with much prayer to God have become part of the family at a Bible church.
I believe the teaching of the Catholic Church is that means a anathema to hell even though people don’t like to talk about that sort of thing it was upheld in Vatican 2.
So it comes back to the question of who has the authority?

 

[ExGratia]

What your protestant friend said seems to be the “sin of presumption”. Catholic or not, none of us can be absolutely certain of salvation…we must continue to respond to the grace that God makes readily available to us!

 

[JerryZ]

Since the “keys” were given to Peter and passed to his successors “Catholic Church” does the Church have the authority to revoke someones salvation by an anathema? In other words is God the only one who has the authority to damn someone to hell as in Matthew 10:28 or are there others?
I have left the RCC and with much prayer to God have become part of the family at a Bible church.
I believe the teaching of the Catholic Church is that means a anathema to hell even though people don’t like to talk about that sort of thing it was upheld in Vatican 2.
So it comes back to the question of who has the authority?

The Church does not revoke any one’s salvation it is our actions contrary to Holy Mother Church and by extension to Jesus’s will that looses our salvation. Who founded the Catholic Church? hint a certain carpenter born in Bethlem.
What is Anathema? It is to separate ourselves from the true Church either by grievous actions or our stubborness to accept Her teachings on faith and morals.

Only God knows who will be damned since He alone knows our hearts and we cannot hide anything from Him.
And as has been already said salvation outside the Church is possible but certainly harder to achieve because outside of Her we do not have the sacraments.

 

[themonk86]

Since the “keys” were given to Peter and passed to his successors “Catholic Church” does the Church have the authority to revoke someones salvation by an anathema? In other words is God the only one who has the authority to damn someone to hell as in Matthew 10:28 or are there others?
I have left the RCC and with much prayer to God have become part of the family at a Bible church.
I believe the teaching of the Catholic Church is that means a anathema to hell even though people don’t like to talk about that sort of thing it was upheld in Vatican 2.
So it comes back to the question of who has the authority?

The CC has never claimed the authority to revoke someones salvation by an anathema. I think you misunderstand the way the CC uses the term anathema. Here is a link to what the CC means when it says anathema.

newadvent.org/cathen/01455e.htm

Also I think it’s interesting you mentioned how you left the CC for a “Bible” church when the CC is the church mentioned in the Bible. Maybe if you want to private message me, will you tell me your biggest issue with the CC? Hope the link helps and God Bless.

 

[MaryRita85]

I suppose I don’t need to try to convert everyone this week
How sad is it that I make up supposed conversations in my head so I can give a rebuttal!?lol

 

[MaryRita85]

Could anyone help me figure out what this means in context?
Romans:
11For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.”j 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him.k 13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
This makes it sound like anyone who believes is saved and I know this means that God is God of all but how could I defend this scripture?

 

[berk60]

The Church does not revoke any one’s salvation it is our actions contrary to Holy Mother Church and by extension to Jesus’s will that looses our salvation. Who founded the Catholic Church? hint a certain carpenter born in Bethlem.
What is Anathema? It is to separate ourselves from the true Church either by grievous actions or our stubborness to accept Her teachings on faith and morals.

Only God knows who will be damned since He alone knows our hearts and we cannot hide anything from Him.
And as has been already said salvation outside the Church is possible but certainly harder to achieve because outside of Her we do not have the sacraments.

I’ve accepted Jesus Christ as my Savior by confessing to Him that I am a sinner and believing that He was sent by the Father to die for my sins making atonement for them on the cross and I believe that God raised Him from the died. Through the precious blood of Jesus I am reconciled back to the Father and now I live for Jesus as the Lord of my life. This I have done outside of the Catholic Church. Is this what you are talking about when you said it is possible to be saved outside of the Church but harder?

 

[Joe_5859]

Could anyone help me figure out what this means in context?
Romans:
11For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.”j 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him.k 13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
This makes it sound like anyone who believes is saved and I know this means that God is God of all but how could I defend this scripture?

Romans 10:13 is actually a quote from the Old Testament prophet Joel 2:32.

Peter also quotes this text in Acts 2:21 and uses it to build the case for all of them to come and be baptized (Acts 2:38). So it’s not simply a matter of calling on the name of the Lord with no accompanying action. As Jesus himself says, “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven” (Matthew 7:21).

Also, take a look at the verses following those you mentioned in Romans 10:

14 But how can they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how can they believe in him of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone to preach? 15 And how can people preach unless they are sent?

Jesus sent the Apostles to preach and this mission is passed down through their successors, the bishops of the Catholic Church. You cannot separate the message from the mission nor the mission from those who have been legitimately sent by Christ. And that will always lead back to the Catholic Church.

 

[Aloysium]

Could anyone help me figure out what this means in context?
Romans:
11For the scripture says, “No one who believes in him will be put to shame.”j 12For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; the same Lord is Lord of all, enriching all who call upon him.k 13For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
This makes it sound like anyone who believes is saved and I know this means that God is God of all but how could I defend this scripture?

I would just give the person the head’s up that he may not have it straight.
I do not believe I can convert someone unless the Holy Spirit is involved.

The issue is not how one understands any particular verse, but how the whole fits together.
There are also very many interpretations. Having the teachings of the Church beats going on one’s own steam or listening to particular preachers.

I take the above quote to be speaking to the fact that Jesus came for all of us; not that just saying His name will be granted eternal happiness. How I understand it is that calling on the name of the Lord, He will guide us to His Church and thereby closer to Himself.

 

[WD615]

I would say that all of us are not going to the same place. Whether that means all humans or all Christians. I think that the Parable of the Ten Virgins found in Matthew 25 would be instructive. The foolish virgins who forgot their oil were left outside crying, “Lord, lord open to us,” But they were not let in.

The teaching of the Church is that the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation like Christ is necessary for salvation and the only way to Heaven. This is sometimes formulated as “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” or “outside the Church there is no salvation.” But the Catechism (847) says the doctrine of “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” is “not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church.”

Also from Lumen Gentium, “Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church… is necessary for salvation… Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.”

So, I have a question of my own that I think may help create a better answer for the OP’s question and help clear up my own understanding. To any more learned readers out there, what is an example of someone who is ignorant through a fault of their own?

In addition, what does “knowing the Catholic Church is necessary” entail? In this situation is there a substantive difference between “knowing” and “believing?”

Thanks for anyone’s help. And I hope this helps craft a better answer to the question of the necessity of joining the Catholic Church.

 

[berk60]

I would say that all of us are not going to the same place. Whether that means all humans or all Christians. I think that the Parable of the Ten Virgins found in Matthew 25 would be instructive. The foolish virgins who forgot their oil were left outside crying, “Lord, lord open to us,” But they were not let in.

The teaching of the Church is that the Catholic Church is necessary for salvation like Christ is necessary for salvation and the only way to Heaven. This is sometimes formulated as “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” or “outside the Church there is no salvation.” But the Catechism (847) says the doctrine of “extra ecclesiam nulla salus” is “not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church.”

Also from Lumen Gentium, “Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church… is necessary for salvation… Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.”

So, I have a question of my own that I think may help create a better answer for the OP’s question and help clear up my own understanding. To any more learned readers out there, what is an example of someone who is ignorant through a fault of their own?

In addition, what does “knowing the Catholic Church is necessary” entail? In this situation is there a substantive difference between “knowing” and “believing?”

Thanks for anyone’s help. And I hope this helps craft a better answer to the question of the necessity of joining the Catholic Church.

Well that must be me as I posted in #16.
I have given my life to Christ because I am a sinner and believe that Jesus died for me. I am so in love with Christ that I have made Him the Lord of my life and ask Him to continually sanctify me by His most gracious mercy to be transformed into His image. This I have done after leaving the Catholic church were I spent over 30 years in. It’s not about rules and regulations and crossing your “T’s” and dotting your “I’s”. It’s about a personal relationship with the Savoir and whoever comes to Him, He will no wise cast out.