We sang a song with "Yaweh" in it today

[SenorSalsa]

Has the directive to stop this practice come into affect yet?

I don’t want to bash my Church’s musicians, and am going to assume they did not know, but if I am correct in thinking it is already in affect, I would at least like to point it out to them.

Also, when we sung the Agnus Dei, they sang "Lamb of God…/something that wasnt Lamb of God…/Lamb of God…

I don’t remember the exact title used, but I thought that changing that was also not allowed?

again, I would just like to politely point it out, especially since it isn’t the choir at the Mass time I normally go to, so I don’t know if they normally play by the rules or not

 

[redrosetea]

They might not know about it yet, but they should, we do. Of course they might not be on the net, and I don’t know how publicized this is in regular media

 

[VociMike]

I’ll bet hardly anybody knows about it yet. So just point it out to them and explain it’s a new instruction from the Holy Father.

 

[pnewton]

It is not yet on any official site that I have found. Blogs and news services do not count, as that is how rumors are perpetuated. It is not a rule until it is put out through official channels.

 

[Phemie]

It is not yet on any official site that I have found. Blogs and news services do not count, as that is how rumors are perpetuated. It is not a rule until it is put out through official channels.

That’s true. I’m often the one who hands the pastor new documents but he’s quick to remind me that, until he receives instructions from the bishop, those documents are just so much paper.

Considering the fact that Redemptionis Sacramentum hasn’t made its way to the parishes in our diocese yet, I have no hope that this new rule will be heard of soon. Of course it’s a moot point since all mention of Yahweh was removed from our official hymnal about 14 years ago.

 

[Brendan]

It is not yet on any official site that I have found. Blogs and news services do not count, as that is how rumors are perpetuated. It is not a rule until it is put out through official channels.

Even when the News Service quotes the Chairman of the Bishops Committee on the Liturgy and the publisher of Oregon Catholic Press on the subject?

Bishop Arthur J. Serratelli of Paterson, N.J., chairman of the U.S. bishops’ Committee on Divine Worship, announced the new Vatican “directives on the use of ‘the name of God’ in the sacred liturgy” in an Aug. 8 letter to his fellow bishops.

He said the directives would not “force any changes to official liturgical texts” or to the bishops’ current missal translation project but would likely have “some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments.”

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0804119.htm

I think you might need to read up on Canon law, particularly Canon 16.

The decisions of the appropriate Diacastery become law when they are promulgated, which means that it became law the minute Cardinal Arinze licked the stamps and dropped them into the mail to the world’s bishops conferences.

If publication on an official website was what was required, that would mean that the decrees of the Council of Nicea weren’t official until a few years ago, when then Vatican published them on their website. Do you really want to claim that

 

[Cat]

Even when the News Service quotes the Chairman of the Bishops Committee on the Liturgy and the publisher of Oregon Catholic Press on the subject?

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0804119.htm

I think you might need to read up on Canon law, particularly Canon 16.

The decisions of the appropriate Diacastery become law when they are promulgated, which means that it became law the minute Cardinal Arinze licked the stamps and dropped them into the mail to the world’s bishops conferences.

If publication on an official website was what was required, that would mean that the decrees of the Council of Nicea weren’t official until a few years ago, when then Vatican published them on their website. Do you really want to claim that

C’mon. You have to be practical. Just because the Cardinal has licked the stamps doesn’t mean that our bishops and priests have actually READ what’s in the letters. They have to read the instructions before they can implement them. And implementation involves communicating with the musicians and liturgical directors, who are not always easy to get hold of (especially in the summer in the U.S.). It’s not as easy as licking stamps.

Do you expect your children to obey rules that they have never heard yet?

Or is there some kind of “Liturgical Update” hotline red-alert that all the bishops and priests are supposed to check daily? That would be cool and a good idea, IMO. Years ago, before the Internet existed, I heard that the Mormons are so well-organized that within a half-hour, every Mormon in the world can be contacted if the need so arises. Not a bad plan, is it, especially in this day of computer and cell phone technology.

 

[Brendan]

C’mon. You have to be practical. Just because the Cardinal has licked the stamps doesn’t mean that our bishops and priests have actually READ what’s in the letters. .

Note the difference between what I said, and what you said.

I said that the decision was a rule when promulgated. That is a fact, and has been so since Peter lead the council of Jerusalem.

In fact, lets look at that particular example. Peter and the Council decided what the rule was, and then sent a delegation to inform the Church what the new rule was.

But it would be false to claim that the decision of the Council wasn’t a rule until the folks in Antioch heard about it. No, it became a rule of the Church when the Council acted on Peter’s command. Not a moment later.

It would likely be false to claim that the Christians in Antioch were morally obligated to follow the ruling until they heard about it.

But once the letter arrived, they had to follow the instructions, such is the way of the Church.

So no, I certainly do not expect the music director to follow a ruling they know nothing about, but once they hear of it, they must follow it.

So give them a copy of the letter, much as Peter sent to Antioch.

But the virtue of Prudence demands that it be given attention due to the decrees of the Holy See and hold off hence forth from singing hymns that include the Sacred Name, until contrary instructions come.

 

[VociMike]

Look, it’s a basic tenet of morality that when one has knowledge of decisions made by legitimate authorities one is bound by that knowledge. The people who know about this instruction cannot hide behind legalisms. They are bound to act in accord with the knowledge they posess.

Really, are some people that desperate to sneak in a few more “Yaweh” songs before they’re forced to stop? Is that what this comes down to?

 

[pnewton]

Even when the News Service quotes the Chairman of the Bishops Committee on the Liturgy and the publisher of Oregon Catholic Press on the subject?

Yes. News papers and other media have been wrong before, or don’t you recall some of the fiascos of the past. There are those who are suckered into believing these rumors who are otherwise intelligent people who just make a mistake.

The person who initially posted the letter wouldn’t list his source, but stated that it would be on the USCCB website this last week. He was wrong. It is not there. So did a bishop really say this or did the report write the article from his desk when he came across the same blogger?

By the way, I have searched for other verifications of this story and simply can not find anything that might not be linked back to the original blog. Am I the only one one here that remembers the past? Rather than ask why people are wanting to “sneak in” a few more hymns, we could ask why some are wanting to believe with such haste what might only be a rumor.

 

[gentlefaith]

what is wrong with the word “Yaweh”?

 

[Brendan]

Yes. News papers and other media have been wrong before, or don’t you recall some of the fiascos of the past. There are those who are suckered into believing these rumors who are otherwise intelligent people who just make a mistake.

He quoted the Bishop who sent out the letter, what better source do you require?

The person who initially posted the letter wouldn’t list his source, but stated that it would be on the USCCB website this last week. He was wrong. It is not there. So did a bishop really say this or did the report write the article from his desk when he came across the same blogger?

CNS is a valid news source.

There was also an article in our Diocesan Newspaper, the Michgan Catholic, that had quotes from members of our diocesan staff.

The Chancelory office here recieved the letter.

Why don’t you call up your diocesan channcellory office and ask them if they recieved the letter in question . That is one of the things the office exists for, to respond to questions by the members of the faithful.

That is one of the great things about Vatican II, it empowers the laity to ask questions about what the Church teaches about the liturgy and places a responsibility on the clergy to instruct s

 

[jmcrae]

what is wrong with the word “Yaweh”?

It means “I am God.” This word should not cross human lips because only God is God.

(You might recall that Jesus was crucified for pronouncing the word “Yahweh.” )

 

[Walking_Home]

He quoted the Bishop who sent out the letter, what better source do you require?

CNS is a valid news source.

There was also an article in our Diocesan Newspaper, the Michgan Catholic, that had quotes from members of our diocesan staff.

The Chancelory office here recieved the letter.

Why don’t you call up your diocesan channcellory office and ask them if they recieved the letter in question . That is one of the things the office exists for, to respond to questions by the members of the faithful.

That is one of the great things about Vatican II, it empowers the laity to ask questions about what the Church teaches about the liturgy and places a responsibility on the clergy to instruct s

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I believe I read at the CNS site – that CNS is a division of the USCCB.

 

[cameron_lansing]

The letter from Cardinal Arinze dated July 29 was addressed to the episcopal conferences, and then made known to the individual ordinaries August 8. One would have to consult the actual letter to see the mode of promulgation, determine the date on which the decree takes effect, properly understand the nature of its legal weight, and to know who is responsible for seeing that it is observed. In the case of liturgical matter, the duty falls on the diocesan bishop since he moderates liturgy in his diocese according to the limits in canon 838 et alia.

However, I do not think that canon 16 is relevant from what I gather. I would direct attention elsewhere.

Canon 8 “§1 provides that " Universal ecclesiastical laws are promulgated by publication in the official commentary, [Acta Apostolicae Sedis], unless another manner of promulgation has been prescribed in particular cases. They take force only after three months have elapsed from the date of that issue of the [Acta] unless they bind immediately from the very nature of the matter, or the law itself has specifically and expressly established a shorter or longer suspensive period ([vacatio]).”

That brings us back to whatever the decree says.

This did not apply to the Council of Nicea since it predated the current code of canon law by at least more than a few centuries.

In any case, decrees from the Holy See, once they take legal effect, are to most certainly to be observed and not discounted, ignored or disobeyed.

 

[Brendan]

FYI,

The Diocese of Toledo has that same news story on it’s website.

So, unless someone thinks that Bishop Blair is now decieved, I think pnewton is grasping at straws on this one.

 

[Brendan]

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I believe I read at the CNS site – that CNS is a division of the USCCB.

At the very least, the USCCB news site had this to say about CNS

usccb.org/news/index.shtml

Catholic News Service (CNS), the oldest and largest religious news service in the world, is a leading source of news for Catholic print and electronic media across the globe.

Also, thank you Deacon Cameron.

Your insights into Canon law are alway welcome

So one might assume then, that it takes effect 3 months from the date of promulgation(either Jule 27 or Aug 8) ?

Here is the letter BTW

execulink.com/~dtribe/blog/Name%20of%20God.pdf

 

[pnewton]

FYI,

The Diocese of Toledo has that same news story on it’s website.

So, unless someone thinks that Bishop Blair is now decieved, I think pnewton is grasping at straws on this one.

I am not grasping at straws. That implies I have some motive or agenda. Believe me, I wish it had been posted on the USCCB website. However, being suspicious bt profession, what I see is a supposed Catholic posting a letter, yet he can not say where it came from? The person who gave it to him did not want to be identified? The Catholic Church is not the CIA and we are dealing with teaching the faithful. Why do we have leaks and secrecy?

If I was really wanting to delay things I would not be here fretting on whether this is legitimate, but would not act on it until it came through official channels.

As far as Bishop Blair being deceived (assuming he also publishes your diocesan paper in his spare time), I did happen to Dan Rather.

 

[ibkc]

I am not grasping at straws. That implies I have some motive or agenda. Believe me, I wish it had been posted on the USCCB website.

It has been established that CNS is the news wing of the USCCB. What more do you want?

 

[Brendan]

As far as Bishop Blair being deceived (assuming he also publishes your diocesan paper in his spare time), I did happen to Dan Rather.

I’ve mentioned that I’m in Michigan and my diocesan paper is called “The Michigan Catholic”. Since Toledo is in Ohio, it would be safe to assume that Bishop Blair does NOT publish my diocesan newpaper in his spare time.

Cardinal Maida has oversight of my diocesan paper.

And it has been pointed out that CNS is the news arm of the USCCB.

Take a look at this USCCB website ( Catholic Communication Campaign), under the “Who we are tab”

You will see that Catholic News Service is a branch of the USCCB’s Communication directorate

atlanticvideo.com/clients/ccom/

And from the CNS website - catholicnews.com/aboutcns.htm

While created in 1920 by the bishops of the United States, CNS is editorially independent and a financially self-sustaining division of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops.