G
gentlefaith
Guest
thank youIt means “I am God.” This word should not cross human lips because only God is God.
(You might recall that Jesus was crucified for pronouncing the word “Yahweh.”)
- Status
B
Brendan
Guest
So, to use a secular analogy here.
If a blogger got a hold of a letter that the CBS Board of Directors sent to the CBS regional office head describing some format changes.
AND it that change was reported on during CBS Nightly News itself.
You still would not consider the news to be valid until it was posted on CBS.com?
Is that pretty much what you are trying to say here?
S
SenorSalsa
Guest
Is there anyone that can answer the second question about the Lamb of God?
J
jmcrae
Guest
I am under the impression that the words of the prayers of the Mass are not supposed to be changed around, even when sung.
However, I am also aware that there is more than one version of the Lamb of God prayer in English - it’s possible that you were hearing a different version of it than what you are used to.
J
Jean_Anthony
Guest
Please everyone, don’t take the thread off topic by challenging sources. If you have any questions about people’s sources contact the forum moderator. Thank you.
C
clock
Guest
Is it just an american word?
I’ve never even heard it before
I’ve never even heard it before
J
JimR-OCDS
Guest
The information on the Pope’s directive to stop using the word
“Yahweh,” in prayer, song or text at Mass, was linked on the
USCCB website, to the Catholic News Service.
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0804119.htm
It is in “The Catholic Free Press” this week, which is my diocesan paper.
It is official, but it just came out this week and parish musicians more than likely have not received the word.
I was fortunate to see twp of our musicians at the vigil Mass at the feast of the Assumption, so I informed them. They were taken back by this, but I know they’ll comply. Ironically, (my parish consist of two parishes) the hymnal in the Church, has no songs with Yahweh in it. However, I know the hymnal at the other church is OCP and has it.
Jim
“Yahweh,” in prayer, song or text at Mass, was linked on the
USCCB website, to the Catholic News Service.
catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0804119.htm
It is in “The Catholic Free Press” this week, which is my diocesan paper.
It is official, but it just came out this week and parish musicians more than likely have not received the word.
I was fortunate to see twp of our musicians at the vigil Mass at the feast of the Assumption, so I informed them. They were taken back by this, but I know they’ll comply. Ironically, (my parish consist of two parishes) the hymnal in the Church, has no songs with Yahweh in it. However, I know the hymnal at the other church is OCP and has it.
Jim
C
Cat
Guest
For gosh sakes, I’m not denying what you said or implying that it isn’t true. Yes, it’s a rule.
I’m just saying that it won’t happen overnight due to practical reasons, and that if a musical director uses a hymn with the forbidden word in it, that is not a sign that he/she is deliberately disobeying Holy Mother Chruch.
Until a few months have passed (I believe that one of the posters posted a time period of 3 months), I think it would be wrong of Catholics to assume the worse about a parish just because a hymn or prayer is used with the offending word.
Certainly if they wish to bring it up, do so, but with gentleness and charity. It’s very possible that the person who chose the hymn honestly wasn’t aware of the new rule. Take the charitable viewpoint.
V
VociMike
Guest
Undoubtedly very few have yet received the word. Nobody should expect them all to be plugged into the Catholic Internet. We should inform musicians and priests with all charity and sincerity, and we should assume, at least for the next few months, that anybody violating the instruction simply hasn’t heard about it yet.
I salute their obedience and the obedience of all who will give over their personal preferences to the teaching of the Holy Father.
M
Mattapoisett64
Guest
I thought the Tetragrammaton YHWH which we transliterate as “Yahweh” stands for the Hebrew “I Am Who Am,” not “I am God.” Means God, yes, but I didn’t think that was what the Hebrew words literally were. And where, exactly, in the Passion Narratives does it say that Christ was crucified for speaking the Divine Name?It means “I am God.” This word should not cross human lips because only God is God.
(You might recall that Jesus was crucified for pronouncing the word “Yahweh.”
Sadly, a whole new “liturgical abuse” for some people to obsess about . . . .
P
pnewton
Guest
I was unaware that discussion of source was considered off topic. I will back off the topic until something substantial comes through regular channels in my diocese.
G
GabrielPenfield
Guest
My pastor gave me a copy of a letter he received from our hymnal publisher, World Library Publications. It quoted the CNS letter and told us which three hymns were affected: “You Are Near” and “Sing a New Song” by Dan Schutte, along with “Yahweh” by Gregory Norbet. Interestingly, none of the songs were published by WLP, but used with permission from GIA and OCP. While I thought about using “Sing a New Song” in a couple weeks, I will instead use the superior hymn “Sing a New Song to the Lord,” music by David G. Wilson (ONSLOW SQUARE) with lyrics by Timothy Dudley-Smith. It is published by the ecumenical publisher Hope and is also in our hymnal. I will not use the above hymns without modification, though I must say I’m tempted to change the first two words of “You Are Near” to “O Lord” in every hymnal, as the song is so well-liked.
B
benedictgal
Guest
Just some FYI for y’all. During my sabattical, I received this email from OCP:
This email was sent last Friday. The letter from Bishop Serratelli was sent on August 8th.
V
VociMike
Guest
Sounds just like a software patch.
N
Nickkname
Guest
From ZENIT:
Vatican Says “Yahweh” Not to Be Pronounced
Calls on Practice Used by 1st Christians
WASHINGTON, D.C., AUG. 19, 2008 (Zenit.org).- A note from the Vatican has reiterated a directive that the name of God revealed in the tetragrammaton YHWH is not to be pronounced in Catholic liturgy.
Bishop Arthur Serratelli, chairman of the U.S. bishops’ Committee on Divine Worship, in a note informing prelates of the Vatican directive, said the indications “do not force any changes to official liturgical texts,” but might cause “some impact on the use of particular pieces of liturgical music in our country as well as in the composition of variable texts such as the general intercessions for the celebration of the Mass and the other sacraments.”
Commonly used songs with phrases such as “Yahweh, I know you are near,” will need to be modified.
The June 29 Vatican message, from the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, clarified that the name of God revealed in YHWH was not pronounced by the first Christians, following the tradition already in use.
It explained: "The venerable biblical tradition of sacred Scripture, known as the Old Testament, displays a series of divine appellations, among which is the sacred name of God revealed in a tetragrammaton YHWH – hwhw. As an expression of the infinite greatness and majesty of God, it was held to be unpronounceable and hence was replaced during the reading of sacred Scripture by means of the use of an alternate name: ‘Adonai,’ which means ‘Lord.’
“The Greek translation of the Old Testament, the so called Septuagint, dating back to the last centuries prior to the Christian era, had regularly rendered the Hebrew tetragrammaton with the Greek word Kyrios, which means ‘Lord.’ Since the text of the Septuagint constituted the Bible of the first generation of Greek speaking Christians, in which language all the books of the New Testament were also written, these Christians, too, from the beginning never pronounced the divine tetragrammaton.”
Theology
The Vatican goes on to note that this practice had “important implications” for New Testament Christology.
“When in fact, St. Paul, with regard to the crucifixion, writes that 'God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name” (Phil 2:9), he does not mean any other name than ‘Lord,’ for he continues by saying, ‘and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord’ (Phil 2:11; cf. Isaiah 42:8: ‘I am the Lord; that is my name’)," the Vatican note explained.
“The attribution of this title to the risen Christ corresponds exactly to the proclamation of his divinity,” it continued. “The title in fact becomes interchangeable between the God of Israel and the Messiah of the Christian faith, even though it is not in fact one of the titles used for the Messiah of Israel.”
“Avoiding pronouncing the tetragrammaton of the name of God on the part of the Church has therefore its own grounds,” the Vatican concluded. “Apart from a motive of a purely philogical order, there is also that of remaining faithful to the Church’s tradition, from the beginning, that the sacred tetragrammaton was never pronounced in the Christian context, nor translated into any of the languages into which the Bible was translated.”
P
pnewton
Guest
S
Sarabande
Guest
I know that in our parish, our director has been informed about no longer being able to use hymns with Yahweh in them. But we don’t use those hymns anyway, unless a bride or family member of a deceased individual requests one of those kinds of hymns. (You are Near is requested sometimes.) The director of worship for the diocese is his boss and informed him of it, so I’m guessing that if it hasn’t already gone out to the rest of the parishes, it will soon.
N
neitsab
Guest
Find yourself another church–seriously!
- Status