We sang a song with "Yaweh" in it today

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benedictgal and pnewton, thanks for providing the information about and link to OCP’s handling of the situation. It was refreshing not only to find that they had responded quickly to the directive, but that Dan Schutte himself commented on his choices of text and rhythm changes. While I’m not exactly sure by what means I will go in and change our hymnals, I will certainly not use the hymns until the necessary changes have been made. My previous pastor was not crazy about using “Yahweh” but we did sing some of the songs with the word. Thankfully, we can now get rid of all those “Yahweh” versions of the wedding texts that never seemed right to me.
 
GabrielPenfield said:
benedictgal and pnewton, thanks for providing the information about and link to OCP’s handling of the situation. It was refreshing not only to find that they had responded quickly to the directive, but that Dan Schutte himself commented on his choices of text and rhythm changes. While I’m not exactly sure by what means I will go in and change our hymnals, I will certainly not use the hymns until the necessary changes have been made. My previous pastor was not crazy about using “Yahweh” but we did sing some of the songs with the word. Thankfully, we can now get rid of all those “Yahweh” versions of the wedding texts that never seemed right to me.
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You’re welcome.

To be honest, I don’t think that OCP was responding that quickly on the matter since the letter from the USCCB Chairman of the Committee on Divine Worship was released on August 8th and OCP’s response came a month later. Granted, I’m not a musician nor a composer, but, the better course of action would have been to place a moratorium on the songs until such time as a change could be made. But, that’s just my assessment.
 
benedictgal said:
You’re welcome.

To be honest, I don’t think that OCP was responding that quickly on the matter since the letter from the USCCB Chairman of the Committee on Divine Worship was released on August 8th and OCP’s response came a month later. Granted, I’m not a musician nor a composer, but, the better course of action would have been to place a moratorium on the songs until such time as a change could be made. But, that’s just my assessment.
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OCP’s response was immediate. It took a month to get the composer’s revisions to be able to distribute them.

There are quote’s from OCP when the first news article came out.
 
The response that I am referencing is the email that I received a couple of days ago and which I posted. That, for me, was not an immediate resonse as far as that matter was concerned. While they may have responded in the article, it took them awhile to inform the folks on their email list, of which I am one.

For disclosure purposes, the reason that I received the email was that I used to order materials from them for the Spanish-language Masses. That was several years ago, but, I am still on their mailing list.
 
News travels slowly around my parish, so I emailed the CNS article to the choir director as soon as I saw it. He appreciated being informed and corrected immediately. We used to sing “You Are Near” pretty often.
 
I’m just curious. Why is God’s name being disallowed to be sung at mass? Is it because there are sometimes Jewish visitors to Catholic churches?
 
SenorSalsa said:
The question you raise about using Yawhew will not be effective until 2009. I am an organist and the song ,"Yawhew, I know you are hear, " I always used it at funerals. It is a beautiul song.

As for the Lamb of God, there are numerous music books that use the Lamb of God, but it is sung differently, but it still includes the Lamb of God.
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The directive from the Vatican is posted on the USCCB Web site and can be found here.
The Conference has linked to the document as written and does not say we should wait until 2009 to stop using “Yahweh.” I can’t imagine where that idea came from. The music publishers have also stated that we should not sing the texts until they are updated. Given that OCP has provided new versions of the texts, those are the ones we should use if we want to continue singing the songs. While most of the changes are pretty good, I find having to now sing a pick up note in “You Are Near” is going to be difficult for the congregation to get used to, and wonder why the word “O” was so important. But that was the composers choice.
 
TBolt1000T said:
I’m just curious. Why is God’s name being disallowed to be sung at mass? Is it because there are sometimes Jewish visitors to Catholic churches?
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No. It’s because it’s a made-up word that has nothing to do with God’s name, really.

In written language, the Jews used something like YHWH or JHVH as a placeholder for God’s name, but the pronounciation has been lost. Neither “Yahweh” nor “Jehovah” were ever used as names for God in Biblical times - these are just made-up words that came about in modern times as a result of people trying to guess what word this placeholder is meant to signify.

It would be analogous to someone two or three thousand years in the future trying to figure out how to pronounce KWIM (know what I mean) or ASAP (as soon as possible) - or figure out what these rows of punctuation marks could possibly be referring to - 🙂 (smile).
 
Genesis12345 said:
The question you raise about using Yawhew will not be effective until 2009. I am an organist and the song ,"Yawhew, I know you are hear, " I always used it at funerals. It is a beautiul song.
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Where did you get that info. Generally, CDWDS instructions become effective 90 days after promuglation to the bishop’s conferences.
 
TBolt1000T said:
I’m just curious. Why is God’s name being disallowed to be sung at mass? Is it because there are sometimes Jewish visitors to Catholic churches?
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No, because saying it is pretty much making a claim to be God.

Remember, it is Hebrew for “I AM WHO AM”; note that it is is the first person.

No one, other than God, can claim to be “I AM WHO AM”, ,so why say it in the first person?
 
pnewton said:
Genesis12345;4262538:
You still can. OCP has put out a revised version that omits “Yahweh.” You can pull it up on their website.

ocp.org/directive08
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Although I never liked “You are Near”, using “Yahweh, I know you are near” works more than “O Lord, I know you are near.” It feels forced and awkward because of the different use of vowels. The “ah” and “eh” from “Yahweh” blended much better into the “ai” and “oh” of “I know”

“Oh” and “Oh-r” doesn’t blend as nicely into it. But that’s just my opinion.
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Sarabande said:
pnewton;4264705:
Although I never liked “You are Near”, using “Yahweh, I know you are near” works more than “O Lord, I know you are near.” It feels forced and awkward because of the different use of vowels. The “ah” and “eh” from “Yahweh” blended much better into the “ai” and “oh” of “I know”

“Oh” and “Oh-r” doesn’t blend as nicely into it. But that’s just my opinion.
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What about “Father, I know you are near”? It has the “ah” component. Theologically, it would also work well because it addresses God as Father, which He rightly is. Unfortunately, with OCP’s trend in gender neutralization, it would probably not meet their standards, let alone the composer’s. 🤷
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benedictgal said:
Sarabande;4264915:
What about “Father, I know you are near”? It has the “ah” component. Theologically, it would also work well because it addresses God as Father, which He rightly is. Unfortunately, with OCP’s trend in gender neutralization, it would probably not meet their standards, let alone the composer’s. 🤷
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Actually, yes, I think that would work better. It doesn’t sound as awkward. We get this hymn as a request for weddings once in a while. (We never do it for our regular masses) And there is a running joke with us in the music staff that it’s usually only when I have to cantor for a wedding - as if the bride knows that I don’t like it. So it has been good practice for me to sing stuff I don’t like, but make it sound as if I do and as reverently as possible. LOL So if we do have to do this again, I think I’ll just use “Father”.
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GabrielPenfield said:
You might have misunderstood me, what I was implicating is, the new books will not be ready unil 2009. But, I still attend churches that still use “Yawhew, You Are Near”, personally I think it is a beautiful piece of music and the Church always has to find some kind of flaw or change lectionaries.

It is the same way for the directives after saying, this is the Lamb of God…the people are to remain standing during Communion, the churches I attend do not do that. As I said previously, and I am not judging, but each priest does his own thing. At my parish which is very quaint, the pastor has people receiving communion start from the back of the church in lieu of the front–doesn’t make any sense.

Personally, I do not know why they come out with rules because no one follows them. As an organist, we were tld to choose music from the missalette so everyone can participate, again it is up to the pastor, and I do not think they should be using secular songs prior to mass. But again, who listens to the bishops?
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benedictgal said:
Unfortunately, with OCP’s trend in gender neutralization, it would probably not meet their standards, let alone the composer’s. 🤷
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Maybe it is because the word “Yahweh” is normal translated as “Lord” and OCP just wants to be strict traditionalists. Of not.:rolleyes: They could have also used “Abba” if they wanted to stay trendy.
 
I did misunderstand you–I’m sorry. The fact is, with some missalettes, the 2009 editions may already be printed, and we’d have to wait till 2010.

I don’t want to be told we can’t do certain songs at all because of language, but I’d certainly want to (if reasonably possible) correct the songs in permanent or annual (or tri-annual in our case) hymnals.

Interestingly, what if you are not an OCP subscriber? Is it even legal to change the language in your hymnal? Permission to use the corrected texts were given through Oct. 2009 to OCP subscribers. What about churches which have non-OCP hymnals containing OCP music?

There’s already a discussion on the standing after communion directive. It seems ultimately it’s up to the local bishop. I haven’t heard anything about it at my place, so people just do what they’ve always done, namely, kneel until the priest sits down.
 
jmcrae said:
It means “I am God.” This word should not cross human lips because only God is God.

(You might recall that Jesus was crucified for pronouncing the word “Yahweh.” 😉 )
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According to a Jewish professor in college, who tought about Judaism, the word does not mean I am who am." She told me what the Hebrew words for that phrase were, and all I remember is that it started with “Asher.” She may have been wrong though, you know how these college professors are about this sort of thing.
 
Genesis12345 said:
Personally, I do not know why they come out with rules because no one follows them. As an organist, we were tld to choose music from the missalette so everyone can participate, again it is up to the pastor, and I do not think they should be using secular songs prior to mass. But again, who listens to the bishops?
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Believe it or not, although it may seem as if no one follows them, there people who are doing their best to do so. It’s that way at my parish and a number of parishes I’ve been part of as a musician or ones my colleagues/friends work in. When I help plan wedding liturgies in my freelance work, I always recommend to the bridal couples to the best of my knowledge of the rules.

But you are right, sometimes, if the pastor doesn’t want to follow the rules, he will do what he wants and the music director will have no say in the matter. I have seen it many times when it comes to wedding masses in my freelance work. In my diocese the unity candle is not allowed at all, but there are still pastors who allow it just to avoid a “temper tantrum”, as they call it, from the bride. OR they will insist that the bride have it even though they don’t want it and know it shouldn’t be done.

Same with secular music. Many of the parishes in my diocese actually do follow the rules of using only sacred or absolute music. But in the neighboring parish, it can be pretty horrific with what is permitted depending on the parish.
 
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