We Still Pray for Heretics, Schismatics and the Conversion of the Jews

[OraLabora]

I think the Church has spoken on this, through her hierarchy, expressing a desire for more charitable language; while the current 2008 EF prayer is more “direct” than the OF prayer, it is far less inflammatory than the 1962 missal; no matter what the correct Latin root of the translation to “perfidious” is, readers of today’s English will associate the word with treason.

Any further discussions strikes me as trying to figure out how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. We all have our preferences, and we all have our differences; for some, charitable language works better, others prefer themselves to be told directly in harsh terms. Part of the variety of the human condition I guess, we’re all different.

What matters to us as Catholics is that in liturgical matters, it isn’t we, the laity, that get to decide. Roma locuta est , causa finita est…

 

[floresco]

I wasn’t clear. I should have had a paragraph break. It is the old prayer that refers to Israel as a whole. That I think is unclear.

It is the new prayer that uses “people” which I think is better. It is the new prayer that uses “fullness of redemption”, which I find understandable and believe everyone here understands it.

Here is the list of versions of the Good Friday prayer from the article I recommended.
Old Latin version
1955 version (Revised Holy Week under Pope Pius XII)
1960 version (Pope John XXIII)
1970 version (Pope Paul VI - Novus Ordo)
2008 supplement to 1960 version (Benedict XVI’s replacement version for those using the 1962 Missale)

The only one of these that refers to “Israel” is the 2008 one, the most recent. The one you like is the 1970 one. While it is new in comparison to some of them, it is older than the one you seem to be calling “the old prayer.”

 

[floresco]

What matters to us as Catholics is that in liturgical matters, it isn’t we, the laity, that get to decide. Roma locuta est , causa finita est…

In the past sixty years, there have been five different versions of this prayer. That does not seem like a very finita causa to me.

 

[pnewton]

While it is new in comparison to some of them, it is older than the one you seem to be calling “the old prayer.”

It is the the one we used this year. Israel was not named and it used the phrase “fullness of Redemption”, at least I am pretty sure. I still have the missalette and will double check.

 

[floresco]

It is the the one we used this year. Israel was not named and it used the phrase “fullness of Redemption”, at least I am pretty sure. I still have the missalette and will double check.

The prayer used in the OF Good Friday service was written in 1970. This is the one you are describing with “fullness of redemption”. The prayer Pope Benedict composed for the EF Good Friday service was written in 2008. This is the one you have been calling “the old prayer,” but it is, in fact, the most recent.

 

[JReducation]

Since our Holy Father has made it possible for some of us to celebrate the Traditional Mass according to the 1962 Missal, I thought I’d share something interesting.

Yesterday, I attended my first Good Friday liturgy as a Catholic.

I have heard many times on this forum that one is no longer to pray for the conversion of Jews nor is one to refer to people who practice other faiths as heretics or schismatics (except for maybe groups like the Old Catholics). Yet, we do pray these prayers in the EF.

Below are the English translations of the prayers of the Great Intercessions which occur during the Good Friday Liturgy:

Since the Holy Father does allow this liturgy, what are your thoughts on statements like we that we are not to consider Protestants for example, heretics?

What does this say about ecumenism?

You have to read these prayers with the spirit of Canon Law. In Canon Law, the term heretic, apostate and schismatic applies only to one who is baptized into the Catholic Church.

The answer to your question is, no. Protestants are not heretics, even though their ancestors were. The Church has made it very clear that they are not to be held responsible for the sins of their fathers anymore than we are to be held responsible for the sins of our fathers who pushed them over the edge. There are two sides to every rebellion.

If you observe the prayer for the Jews, it’s praying that they be acknowledge Christ as savior and be saved. It does not say that we pray they will convert to Catholicism. It is consistent with what Pope Benedict and Pope John Paul said. We do not proselytize to the Jews or to the Muslims. We make Christianity available and we invite. We have no idea how and when God is going to bring them into communion with the Church. It could be one by one at the moment of death or through some big event. We just don’t know. We are confident that he will offer them communion with the Church. It will be up to each individual to accept it or not. We pray that when it happens, that they will accept it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV

 

[Thomas_Casey]

Question answered.

CLOSED