We want an EF mass. The priest says we sound like schismatics

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Peeps said:
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gracepoole:
Why include this? How does your dislike of any language other than English impact the OP’s question
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Because I was responding to this statement by the OP:

"Someone above me said something like a lot of people don’t like the EF . That’s to bad in my opinion, because that is our Catholic history. To not like it is just as bad in my opinion as someone being flagged on here for complaining about the OF. "

The implication that I received from the OP was that there is something “wrong” with not liking the EF. I think the quote implies this.
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For the record, I’d be more concerned that as described, you dislike anything in a foreign language. Beyond the EF, I imagine this stunts your life in countless ways. 😦
 
Prodigal1984 said:
There is. If someone on this site says anything negative about the OF they are flagged. Please refrain from speaking negatively about a valid form of Mass.
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Prodiga1984, I did not speak negatively about a valid form of the Holy Mass. I spoke negatively about myself by describing how I don’t like things that I can’t understand.

I’ve posted in the next paragraph what I wrote. You will find not one word against the
Extraordinary Form of the Mass; on the contrary–I had good things to say about the EF Mass! I merely described myself and my reasons for not liking it. And yes, we have a Latin Mass parish in our city that has been around for at least 2 decades and is fully approved by the Diocese, and I have played organ there several times and have many friends there.

Here’s my quote:

“BTW, I don’t like the EF Mass. I appreciate that it is part of Christian Church history, and I’m glad that it is available for people who love it. But I don’t like anything that I can’t understand. I don’t like foreign films, I don’t like singing songs in a foreign language (other than perhaps Kum Ba Yah!), I don’t like poetry that isn’t in English. I like my own language, and I like to understand everything that is being said or sung or written.”

Prodical1984, I do understand and respect that Latin is the Official Language of the Church. But I don’t understand it and I would always want to see/read/hear a translation. I’m not saying anything negative about Latin–it’s just me. I don’t get anything out of stuff I don’t understand.
 
The resistance to having an EF celebrated at a parish, often has to do with legistics more so than the language.

Usually, it’s a minority of parish members requesting the EF, but it attracts people from far and wide, and it disrupts the normal activities of that parish. This also includes parishioners having parking available for the OF Masses that they attend as EF attendees stay around long after the EF Mass to have fellowship and share in refreshments. Sounds good, unless you’re a member of that parish trying to set up for CCD classes or other events. .

Jim
 
ProVobis said:
It appears that statements to the effect that one dislikes or hates something are very provocative on CAF. Just sayin.
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Yep. Unfortunately, this is probably one reason why some people quietly leave the Catholic Church and many Protestant churches as well. If we are not free to speak up in a respectful way, then it’s hard to stick around. Sharing negatives as well as positives is part of the process by which improvements can begin. Making suggestions for changes, describing obstacles, asking for reasonable adjustments–there is no “negativity” in this. What people are looking for is respect and a willingness to help them fit in.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The resistance to having an EF celebrated at a parish, often has to do with legistics more so than the language.

Usually, it’s a minority of parish members requesting the EF, but it attracts people from far and wide, and it disrupts the normal activities of that parish. This also includes parishioners having parking available for the OF Masses that they attend as EF attendees stay around long after the EF Mass to have fellowship and share in refreshments. Sounds good, unless you’re a member of that parish trying to set up for CCD classes or other events. .

Jim
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Yeap.

I would also say one of the bigger issues is making sure there is a priest available to cover when the Latin Mass (or other language) priest cannot attend - esp if the Mass is established as an official, publicly announced parish mass.

If it is technically a private mass (which the priest just lets everyone know about), then it can be canceled when there is no priest. But pastors are not going to be keen on that for a Sunday mass, esp if the Latin mass is towards the end of the day. They are not going to want to potentially see people miss their Sunday obligation because a Sunday latin mass was canceled.

It’s one thing to have a weekly, public knowledge, private mass on a Saturday evening or during the week. Canceling a mass Mon - Sat isn’t going to run the risk of someone missing their Sunday obligation. But canceling a Sunday afternoon or evening mass could.

Honestly, there are just so many factors as to why an individual pastor might not want a non-vernacular mass (whether it is Latin, Spanish, French, etc) at his parish - esp if he doesn’t have diocesan back up & support.

Again, the best answer is to work with the diocese and local Latin mass societies to establish a regional Latin Mass apostolate or Latin Mass parish
 
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gracepoole said:
For the record, I’d be more concerned that as described, you dislike anything in a foreign language. Beyond the EF, I imagine this stunts your life in countless ways. 😦
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You’re probably right about missing out, but wouldn’t say I live a “stunted” life.

I have so many blessings in my life, so many wonderful involvements in various musical groups, two beautiful and loving daughters and an amazing son-in-law, my parents-in-law (who are rapidly failing in health but still looking for any adventure they can find in life!), a fun brother who is one of my best friends, and interests/hobbies (e.g., touring historic sites, collecting uranium glass, flea-marketing and vintage shopping, reading, etc.), and of course, enjoying life with my husband of 40 years–I really don’t think I’m missing out on much.

I have never been interested in travelling outside of the U.S.–never.

I like opera, but nowadays, the translations are posted and can be read throughout the opera.
Most of the Spanish-speaking or African-language speaking people in our neighborhood (we live in a very diverse neighborhood!) prefer to speak English as much as possible when they’re with non-family member

There are plenty of books written in English, and any non-English books are usually available in an English translation as well, so I think I’ll have enough reading material until I get to the place where I can’t see to read anymore!

And since I’m usually the one accompanying the soloist or choir singing in a foreign language, I don’t have to worry about being able to speak it or understand it–I just have to pay attention to the director (or soloists) and make sure I’m doing my best to support the singing with my accompaniment.

And of course, I have my Catholic faith–I’m a convert (2004), and I love Holy Mother Church more than ever! And I am so grateful for the Mass and love receiving Jesus in Holy Communion, and that our parish has a 24/7 Adoration Chapel where I can worship Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.

No, I’m not stunted.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Usually, it’s a minority of parish members requesting the EF, but it attracts people from far and wide, and it disrupts the normal activities of that parish. This also includes parishioners having parking available for the OF Masses that they attend as EF attendees stay around long after the EF Mass to have fellowship and share in refreshments.
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This is very true. EF adherents, especially if they have had to travel a considerable distance, tend to linger and socialize. Refreshments are common and are even necessary, as many traditionalists keep a longer communion fast, in keeping with past practice. I normally go to lunch immediately afterwards.

It makes sense for the EF Mass to be the last Mass of the day, both to accommodate those who have traveled a distance, as well as to avoid the kind of disruption you cite.
 
Peeps said:
any non-English books are usually available in an English translation as well,
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Not true. In Latin alone there have been voluminous works written by scholars and non-scholars which have never been translated into any other language. After all Latin’s been around for 2500 years. And it’s basically immutable unlike English. Heck, most don’t understand Shakespeare without notes or commentary.
 
One thing that I am getting from the OP is that you don’t seem to know much about attending the EF.
You didn’t realize that the EF would meet your obligation. Or that the one hour fast doesn’t change.
Maybe your priest realizes that you need to investigate it a little more before he considers you and your group a stable group?
 
ralfyman said:
FWIW, there is an English version of the EF (and a Latin version of the OF).
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Yes, and I think it would be nice to have the Extraordinary Form said in English! The prayer is very beautiful (when I read the translation) and still meaningful for today. I’ve heard others talk about this, but I didn’t think it was ever done. Is it done? I just didn’t think it was liturgically correct to pray the EF Mass out loud in the vernacular. That would be nice.

I would be dismayed if the Ordinary Form was prayed in Latin! I don’t even like it during the rare times in our parish Masses when one of the prayers is sung in Latin–I just have no comprehension of the foreign language and the prayer becomes a translation exercise for me instead of an actual prayer (although I know that God hears all prayers and answers them!).
 
HomeschoolDad said:
An hour’s drive in the United States is so common as to be totally unremarkable. For the most part we do not have public transportation that could be used for a round trip, during daytime hours, on a Sunday.
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This is correct. I drove an hour to Mass last Sunday because a church was having a special festival. I live in a heavily populated area so there are many Masses closer to me than an hour away, but there are parts of USA where one might have to drive at least 40 minutes to get to any Mass at all.
 
Catholic25 said:
Unity matters more than personal preference. Unity in the Roman Catholic Church would be better served by everyone observing the normative liturgy of the Roman Rite.
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So which liturgy do you propose as the normative? I mean both are still living liturgies. The Church never abrogated the EF. That was the normative liturgy for over a millennium. Who was it, Pope Saint Gregory the Great who introduced most of the rubrics in the Tridentine Mass?
 
It sounds like your issue is more with being called “schismatic” rather than his decision whether or not to allow the mass.

I wonder if you emailed him something like, “Father, in reference to our conversation I want to assure you we’re not trying to do anything schismatic, and accept your decision not to offer the EF mass. If what we suggested seemed disruptive, I apologize.” This gives him the opportunity to reflect on his reaction without tying it to a decision, and raises the level of good will of the whole situation. Maybe (just maybe) if he sees the parishioner is the one taking the pastoral approach in this situation, he’ll change his mind about whether to offer the mass.

This situation resonates with some of the ones I’ve encountered. There seem to be a lot of people who want the make the Church so accommodating to the “average person” that traditional teachings and hard sayings are glossed over so as not to scare anyone away. I myself have been called a zealot and “too spiritual” by some who, in my opinion, want to dumb down the faith and turn it into a social services agency. I do believe these people mean well, but, I humbly suggest, there are many who are seeking the “nice” rather than the Good.

I share this experience because the reaction you described drew all these memories to the surface. I don’t mean to crusade against those who put their energies into more active ministry and less contemplation (if that’s actually the case). It just helps me to be aware that it’s a reality and that other see it too. Sometimes just knowing that you’re not the only one with an issue helps. A problem shared is a problem halved, as it were.
 
ralfyman said:
FWIW, there is an English version of the EF (and a Latin version of the OF).
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I did not know that! I would attend an EF if it was done in English (or French) … but Latin is not in my list of languages I can understand…
 
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