We were admonished prior to mass today.

[Crystal_H]

Rickwood…
I am the original poster… and I did NOT say that the the pastor forbade all hand holding… read the post above…

thanks!

Crystal

 

[Rickwood]

Just to clarify… he did not forbid hand holding for those who are married or with their children… simply that it is not an accepted practice to hold hands during the “Our Father” as a part of the “ritual”
Sheesh… I think that some are too sensitive or read far too much into things.

PS. My DH and I almost always hold hands during the homily

I didn’t reailze that this was such a sensitive topic…

This makes no sense at all. None.

The Church has never said that holding hands during the Lord’s Prayer is “not an accepted practice.” Individuals have, but never the Holy See, USCCB, etc.

However it’s also not a directed part of the Mass. * It would therefore be wrong to impose our desire to hold hands with others who might not care to hold hands.*

It also makes absolutely no sense to exempt married couples and adults with their children to hold hands WHILE not allowing others to. In may parish it’s largely the same 750 each Sunday morning and many blocks of people (not married and not parents/children) choose on their own to hold hands. To suggest they could be kept from doing so while married couple/children are exempt just makes no sense.

 

[Rickwood]

Rickwood…
I am the original poster… and I did NOT say that the the pastor forbade all hand holding… read the post above…

thanks!

Crystal

The original post, verbatim:

Well, not really…Today, our priest let us know that there will no longer be any hand holding during the Our Father… and one should not leave their place to “pass the peace”. Whew…
I have been waiting( and praying) for this to happen. I hope that next week he asks us not to clap at the end of mass for the choir! (even though they are wonderful!)

There were lots of befuddled looks though. I hope they find out why and not just complain.

Peace to you all,
Crystal

 

[Crystal_H]

Dearest Rickwood…
In all Charity… I am going to ask to moderator to please close this thread…
I did not intend to start an argument or be petty. Have a wonderful rest of a long weekend.

GOD BLESS!

Moderator … Can we close this please?

Thanks.

 

[Rickwood]

A beloved custodian at the (public) school I teach at passed away last week. Very devout Catholic man … four priests concelebrated the Mass together assisted by a deacon.

As members of our faculty discussed plans to attend the funeral, **my principal and I made it quietly known that we did not hold any one’s hands during the Our Father. **

We have a mixture of Catholics and Methodists on our faculty, and it ended up a very interesting scenario… none of the male staff members held hands, and only two of the female staff people did. The rest all folded their hands properly, regardless of denomination.

That’s actually scary! :bigyikes:

While no one should feel forced/cajoled to hold hands if they don’t want to, you and the principal somehow felt it was your right to make it known that “we did not hold any one’s hands during the Our Father?”

What in the world gave you the notion and sadly, the nerve to make your personal desires “quietly” known to others? :nope:

 

[scylla]

The Pastor cannot forbid anyone to do anything I agree. He can suggest certain things but he cannot forbid as we all have free will.

I agree that we can certainly hold hands, it is a very American thing and I am sure many enjoy this sort of thing since we have become a society which enjoys self fulfillment. If you do really enjoy it and feel it is something you cannot live without you are certainly welcome in my diocese where we do this sort of thing all the time.

I am glad that the OP’s Priest has the guts to try and guide the parish into a faithful expression of the Catholic faith and even if you disagree with his admonition it is certainly admirable that he cares enough about the faith to say something. There are few priests who have the guts to try and guide the parish and there are many who just seek to please the people.

I applaud this Priest (outside of Mass) for his efforts to promote a focus on Christ.

God Bless and please try and see the good intentions of one Priest who actually is promoting a focus on Christ, even if you don’t like it.
Scylla

 

[Rickwood]

The Pastor cannot forbid anyone to do anything I agree. He can suggest certain things but he cannot forbid as we all have free will.

Has nothing to do with free will. Has everything to do with hand holding not being a prohibited activity by the Church during Mass.

I am glad that the OP’s Priest has the guts to try and guide the parish into a faithful expression of the Catholic faith and even if you disagree with his admonition it is certainly admirable that he cares enough about the faith to say something. There are few priests who have the guts to try and guide the parish and there are many who just seek to please the people.

I applaud this Priest (outside of Mass) for his efforts to promote a focus on Christ.

God Bless and please try and see the good intentions of one Priest who actually is promoting a focus on Christ, even if you don’t like it.
Scylla

There is nothing “unfaithful” about holding hands which you are inferring.

While I think it would be good for any pastor to note that it is not a required practice and that no one should feel pressured to hold hands and that no show-boating should go on (which is universally wrong during Mass, hand-holding or anything else), it would be wrong to condemn the practice as the Church does not.

 

[elts1956]

I don’t think you get it…

Just because it’s not in the GIRM/RS/etc. does not mean it’s prohibited, nor must it be “instituted.” The OP said this:

Which suggests there will be NO hand-holding allowed at all. The priest doesn’t have that sort of authority.

If the priest doesn’t have the authority, then who does? Isn’t the priest the person we rely on to direct us in all things spiritual?

Hand holding has never been an intrinsic part of the Mass.

 

[elts1956]

I don’t think you get it…

Just because it’s not in the GIRM/RS/etc. does not mean it’s prohibited, nor must it be “instituted.” The OP said this:

Which suggests there will be NO hand-holding allowed at all. The priest doesn’t have that sort of authority.

He doesn’t have the authority to insist upon that. While he can most certainly say there is no requirement to institutionally hold hands and that people should not initiate hand-holding with people they are not already certain want to hold hands with them, he lacks the authority to make a sweeping claim across the board.

Sometimes when my girlfriend attends Mass with me we unobtrusively hold hands – and not just during the Lord’s Prayer. If my pastor made such a declaration I would quietly ignore it.

If you really feel comfortable with holding hands, why unobtrusive? And yes, the priest does have the authority.

 

[kyria]

At mass once, a lady once grabbed my hands and raised both our hands up in prayer. I was a bit taken back at first, and then thought, well that it ok because she and I just had done a course together, and I think she was the thought of person who very much wanted to bond with a fellow Christian and Catholic.

To be honest sometimes I wonder why we are so worried about some practices that we perceive to be from outside of the Catholic faith, when I see some of those practices showing love. And I can’t see holding someone’s hands as a practice that is necessarily outside of the Catholic Faith, because I can’t see it as being outside of Christ.

I’ve decided that if it involves love, and Christ talked about love, then I am not going to worry about such things as this. If someone leaves their pew to shake my hand, then I see it as a sign that they wish to shake my hands as a fellow Christian and spread love, and because I see Christ as love, I honestly just at this stage can’t see how it brings into disrespect anything in the mass.

My daughter taught me to touch and see touch as love, as I wasn’t a touchy feeling person, but since I’ve become more in tune with Christ in my heart and focused on Love I am much more different about touch.

Love is expressed in many forms and one of them is touch. Because I see touch and love as also touching and being touched by Christ. Maybe I am a bit soppy here, but what is sacredness? Is it unsacred and disrespectal to Christ to touch and spread love? and display love?

I’ve been to Charismatic masses were everyone has held hands, even across the pews. I didn’t see it as disrespectul or as something Christ would be opposed to. I saw it as a display of love with people who love Christ very much, in more ways then I’ve ever seen, and we were each touching each other with that love.

Because I see Christ as Love, I am sticking with Love. I like the idea of raising one’s hands up in prayer, but I also don’t mind if someone holds my hands while we do that.

I see this as boiling down to personal preference, not as anything that is going to affect the mass. But then I am one of these joyful Catholics, maybe I am the odd one.

 

[Rickwood]

If the priest doesn’t have the authority, then who does? Isn’t the priest the person we rely on to direct us in all things spiritual?

Hand holding has never been an intrinsic part of the Mass.

The Church itself – the Holy See, USCCB, etc.

Actually no, I don’t rely on my pastor to add restrictions to the Mass.

 

[Rickwood]

If you really feel comfortable with holding hands, why unobtrusive? And yes, the priest does have the authority.

Because I really don’t want to offend that small number of people who are upset by seeing others hold hands. It’s their problem but I don’t want to add to their discomfort.

And no, the priest does not have the authority to universally condemn hand-holding during the Mass.

 

[Pani_Rose]

Yes, thanks Crystal. I was just curious if he expounded upon the request.

We pray with our hands held open, also…but that even feels so different to me as well. Whatever happened to folding our hands, in the form of a …prayer? lol

Actually, the wider open and higher the hands the more we desire to receive what God desires for us.

 

[Rickwood]

If you really feel comfortable with holding hands, why unobtrusive? And yes, the priest does have the authority.

At mass once, a lady once grabbed my hands and raised both our hands up in prayer. I was a bit taken back at first, and then thought, well that it ok because she and I just had done a course together, and I think she was the thought of person who very much wanted to bond with a fellow Christian and Catholic.

To be honest sometimes I wonder why we are so worried about some practices that we perceive to be from outside of the Catholic faith, when I see some of those practices showing love. And I can’t see holding someone’s hands as a practice that is necessarily outside of the Catholic Faith, because I can’t see it as being outside of Christ.

I’ve decided that if it involves love, and Christ talked about love, then I am not going to worry about such things as this. If someone leaves their pew to shake my hand, then I see it as a sign that they wish to shake my hands as a fellow Christian and spread love, and because I see Christ as love, I honestly just at this stage can’t see how it brings into disrespect anything in the mass.

My daughter taught me to touch and see touch as love, as I wasn’t a touchy feeling person, but since I’ve become more in tune with Christ in my heart and focused on Love I am much more different about touch.

Love is expressed in many forms and one of them is touch. Because I see touch and love as also touching and being touched by Christ. Maybe I am a bit soppy here, but what is sacredness? Is it unsacred and disrespectal to Christ to touch and spread love? and display love?

I’ve been to Charismatic masses were everyone has held hands, even across the pews. I didn’t see it as disrespectul or as something Christ would be opposed to. I saw it as a display of love with people who love Christ very much, in more ways then I’ve ever seen, and we were each touching each other with that love.

Because I see Christ as Love, I am sticking with Love. I like the idea of raising one’s hands up in prayer, but I also don’t mind if someone holds my hands while we do that.

I see this as boiling down to personal preference, not as anything that is going to affect the mass. But then I am one of these joyful Catholics, maybe I am the odd one.

I enjoyed reading your post…

The problem I see with hand-holding is while it is neither prescribed nor prohibited by the Church it could indeed make some people feel uncomfortable and/or lose their focus if their hand was grabbed like your own was.

 

[Rickwood]

Actually, the wider open and higher the hands the more we desire to receive what God desires for us.

Really?

My desire to receive what God wants for me peaks not when I hold my hands in the orans position, but when I hold them 5-on-5 just about level with my chest.

That’s just me though. I don’t believe the orans is prohibited either.

 

[kyria]

I enjoyed reading your post…

The problem I see with hand-holding is while it is neither prescribed nor prohibited by the Church it could indeed make some people feel uncomfortable and/or lose their focus if their hand was grabbed like your own was.

Very true, and at first I was uncomfortable and taken aback, but you know what, on whom should my focus truly be on? Because that lady’s focus really was on Christ, and by grabbing my hand she got me to let go of some of my inhibitions that were holding me back on focusing on Christ within my heart. I had been too worried what would others think, then considering what would Christ think. But I do see your point, we aren’t all touchy feely, and we don’t have to be, but we should also understand those who choose to display Christ’s love in a more physically open way and why are they doing so? it was the why that got me to contemplate a deeper relationship with Christ.

God Bless,

 

[quiet52]

He did say why we do not hold hands. He explained that it was never part of the mass. It originated aver the last few DECADEs as an ecumenical sign of unity with protestants and was introduced illicitly and does not have a place in our mass. We have been asked to pray in the orans posture with our hands open to our Father.

Crystal

The USCCB has told us that there is no specified posture during the Our Father. I think your pastor should have explained that no parishioner should impose hand-holding on another, but that family members or friends “may” hold hands, and that individuals may also choose to pray in the orans posture or with hands folded in prayer. To be in line with the Vatican and the USCCB, your pastor should not require that the parishioners pray in the orans posture.

 

[elts1956]

Because I really don’t want to offend that small number of people who are upset by seeing others hold hands. It’s their problem but I don’t want to add to their discomfort.

And no, the priest does not have the authority to universally condemn hand-holding during the Mass.

If the hand holding is considered part of the service, then I think he can. He is the only immediate religious representative of the Catholic Church we have. Who else are we supposed to listen to?. He must have his reasons for saying no more handholding. Perhaps you could ask him privately. I don’t know when this practice came into being, but it isn’t done at all Catholic Masses.

 

[Cat]

This is interesting. Perhaps someone could clarify.

We were told in our parish that it is the “orans” position (am I spelling that right? I’m very terrible with foreign languages) that is objectionable, because we are making ourselves look like the presiding priest. HE is the one who should be holding his hands up in that position, but we should adapt the more humble position of folding hands.

Is this not correct?

I personally cannot hold my hands in an “up” position. Too many bad memories of really hyper-emotional Pentecostal worship services, where everyone automatically raises their hands during the songs and prayers, which go on and on for sometimes as long as 20 minutes or more…

I have no objection to how others worship the Lord, though. I would say in our parish, the hand-raisers are a smaller group, although they are there. The hand-holders are about half the congregation in any given Mass, but it’s mainly families who hold hands, which I have no obejction to at all. We don’t ever see it stretch across the aisles or even across the pews.

I think it’s a good thing when families hold hands in Mass, and I would question any attempt to stop this practice. Any attempt to break up families, even figuratively, I don’t believe is of God, but of man.

What comes to my mind is that hand-holding position that many NFL teams use during a kickoff–it seems that if big, tough guys need to hold hands to stop the offensive, then it’s a good idea! Volleyball teams also use a hand-holding play once in a while. AND of course, synchronized skating almost always involves variations of hand-holding-the hardest maneuevers become easier when the skaters are holding onto each other. I think that hand-holding in Mass sends a powerful message to the anti-family forces that assail us constantly in the the U.S. Perhaps other countries should stop looking at us strangely and try it–many other countries have even worse problems with the break-up of families than we do, although our problems are bad enough.

 

[Seatuck]

The USCCB has told us that there is no specified posture during the Our Father. I think your pastor should have explained that no parishioner should impose hand-holding on another, but that family members or friends “may” hold hands, and that individuals may also choose to pray in the orans posture or with hands folded in prayer. To be in line with the Vatican and the USCCB, your pastor should not require that the parishioners pray in the orans posture.

Correct. We have been instructed to not mimic the gestures of the priest and that is what using the orans posture during the Our Father does. So we should not be doing that.The rubrics for the Deacon do not have him making the gesture so why would we do it?

ewtn.com/expert/answers/orans_posture.htm