We wll let him decide when he is older

[PoliSciProf]

How would you respond when a very lapsed Catholic family member (nephew) married to an unchurched wife says in regard to his unbaptised child, “We will let him decide when he is older.” Theological discussion is not going to work in my experience. I am looking for tactful, simple responses that will not provoke arguments and will not harden his heart. This issue often arises at large family gatherings when an elderly aunt (or two) can be counted on to bring the question up. My latest response “Well, I’ll still keep you all in my prayers” with a quick change of topic for the sake of family peace. Your thoughts and suggestions?

 

[LilyM]

How would you respond when a very lapsed Catholic family member (nephew) married to an unchurched wife says in regard to his unbaptised child, “We will let him decide when he is older.” Theological discussion is not going to work in my experience. I am looking for tactful, simple responses that will not provoke arguments and will not harden his heart. This issue often arises at large family gatherings when an elderly aunt (or two) can be counted on to bring the question up. My latest response “Well, I’ll still keep you all in my prayers” with a quick change of topic for the sake of family peace. Your thoughts and suggestions?

My initial response, for what it’s worth, would be to say ‘oh, ok, you going to keep him away from the doctors’ vaccinations and let him decide whether to get those when he’s older too? You going to keep him out of school until such time as he decides he wants to go? You going to wait until he decides he wants a job, which could be never, or make him go out and get one when he needs to?’

I’d present it in terms of parents having an obligation to give their child some sort of spiritual education and look after the child’s spiritual health along with the regular education and the physical health and such.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Now don’t yell. But if the parents or Godparents have no intention in training him/her in the faith even the church will tell you they won’t baptize a child. Only if the child is in danger of death, will many priests baptize a child that has no expectations of being raised Catholic.

 

[aimee]

How would you respond when a very lapsed Catholic family member (nephew) married to an unchurched wife says in regard to his unbaptised child, “We will let him decide when he is older.” Theological discussion is not going to work in my experience. I am looking for tactful, simple responses that will not provoke arguments and will not harden his heart. This issue often arises at large family gatherings when an elderly aunt (or two) can be counted on to bring the question up. My latest response “Well, I’ll still keep you all in my prayers” with a quick change of topic for the sake of family peace. Your thoughts and suggestions?

Perhaps you could say to parents …if you’re going to give the choice …then give him something to choose from…educate him in the faith and when he is older he will choose…

 

[Tantum_ergo]

It is frustrating, and it is heartbreaking to realize that it is more than likely that this child, when he is older, will probably ‘decide’ to do nothing–because, after all, that is what he is most comfortable with and used to.

This is the hardest type of evangelization we face as Catholics–to the ‘lapsed’, the relativists, the indifferentists, the modernists, the 'I’m not into organized religion’ists, the ‘cultural’ Christians.

At least when one speaks to another person strong in a faith, even if it differs from ours, there is that ‘point of contact’ that acknowledges that faith is important, vital, crucial.

Speaking to somebody who does not have the gift of faith, doesn’t recognize it as important, doesn’t really care. . .it’s hard. One can only pray and follow Christ and the saints in one’s own example and let the Holy Spirit ‘work’ however He chooses. Keep your family in your prayers, show your faith visibly. Be the one audibly saying ‘grace’ at family dinners. Wear your crucifix daily. Have your Bible and catechism (pocket versions, and have lots of holy cards and prayer cards in them) in your pocket/purse/briefcase etc. at all times, and use them around the family. Speak up on Catholic teaching if a situation arises, always with charity but with firm and clear conviction.

 

[Twelve]

My parents took me to Mass every Sunday. It was a must, like it or not. I believe it was because of that regular attendance as a child that I felt ashamed during the periods of time (sometimes years at a time) when I wasn’t attending Mass as an adult. My husband was taken to Mass occasionally throughout his childhood and now, as an adult, rarely attends and doesn’t feel obligated to attend - guilt free.

It seems to me that it is easier to help instill good morals and good habits during the formative years in a child’s life. It is a matter of training, and learning, a little at a time. A good argument to me, without a real theological, explosive approach.

Not sure if this helps…

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

Well, it sounds like it is going to be something that your nephew is reminded of by the aunts so that is a good start. You said your response (latest) was to keep the piece. A lot of people would want to do that. Yet Jesus says that is not what he came for. If you feel that baptism is the right thing to do, say it. I’m sure the aunts will be happy about that!

My immediate thought is kind of “old school” and that is, “What if something happens to the child? If he is not baptized, what happens to his soul? Or is it the soul of the parents that will suffer?” I don’t think that argument would carry much weight though, although that is where my heart would be.

I wonder if you can actually agrue the point (yes, arguing can be good) that in order for a child to make a decision as an adult he has to start of with a foundation. Let’s say the child starts off with a foundation of baptism and godparents, even catecism and attending Mass, and then as he begins to get older the parents take the child to say, a Jewish temple or a protestant church a time or two, and then when he is even older the parents engage the child in talks about various philosophers or maybe anthropology and religion. This is the only way the child is going to be able to “decide for himself” when he is older, if the parents are expecting him to decide what religion he will be or follow. Otherwise the kid is just bouncing through life with no thought of religion or even philosophy or, maybe even morals. What happens to people who grow up like that? They become young adults and get confused, maybe even follow a cult. Okay, I’m probably not making any sense right now! But expecting a child to know enough about all religions in order to make a decision when he gets older is like sending him out in the world naked.

 

[jpjd]

Since the parents won’t get him baptized, they probably also have no intention of taking him to church.

I suggest you attempt expose the child to the faith. Ask if you can take him to Mass once in a while. Invite him to your parish festival and other fun, social parish activites, especially with the childrens groups. Buy him age-appropriate books that explain the faith. When you eat with him, say grace before the meal. Take him on errands with you, and on the way, stop by your church to light a devotional candle. Explain what you are doing. Let him observe you using holy water and making the sign of the cross, and genuflecting; and teach him how to do these things and what they mean.

In other words, over the months and years, let him see your faith in action. He may want to be in RCIA some day, thanks to your influence and example.

 

[CAROLOFTHEBELLS]

Since the parents won’t get him baptized, they probably also have no intention of taking him to church.

I suggest you attempt expose the child to the faith. Ask if you can take him to Mass once in a while. Invite him to your parish festival and other fun, social parish activites, especially with the childrens groups. Buy him age-appropriate books that explain the faith. When you eat with him, say grace before the meal. Take him on errands with you, and on the way, stop by your church to light a devotional candle. Explain what you are doing. Let him observe you using holy water and making the sign of the cross, and genuflecting; and teach him how to do these things and what they mean.

In other words, over the months and years, let him see your faith in action. He may want to be in RCIA some day, thanks to your influence and example.

I think this an awesome idea!

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I know of none that don’t start an an argument. My SIL decided to let her kids “choose later” and our pointing out that adults raised that way choose nothing, made her scream and yell. On my side of the family, those with children baptize them, and attempt to send them to religious school or rel. ed. “You’ll thank me when you’re older” is a frequent reply to children who don’t want to go to Mass, don’t want to go to services in the case of the Lutheran children, and don’t want to go to rel. ed.

I think your best bet is jpjd’s idea.

 

[masondoggy]

A parent that decides to “let them decide when their older” is already in the beginning stages of rejecting the Faith themselves. In this case, the child shouldn’t be Baptized. Pushing this issue too much right now can really backfire and push the parent even further and further from “organized religion” rolleyes: )

The only thing you can do is pray, pray, pray and set as good of an example as possible. Let this child grow up with a positive first-hand experience of Christianity and that will go a long way in influencing his “decision” as an adult. If the parents will allow you, take the child to Mass with you, teach him how to pray the rosary and the Divine Mercy Chaplet, and take him to an Adoration Chapel as much as possible. The more time he spends in the Presence of our Lord, the better.

 

[HashemEchad]

How would you respond when a very lapsed Catholic family member (nephew) married to an unchurched wife says in regard to his unbaptised child, “We will let him decide when he is older.” Theological discussion is not going to work in my experience. I am looking for tactful, simple responses that will not provoke arguments and will not harden his heart. This issue often arises at large family gatherings when an elderly aunt (or two) can be counted on to bring the question up. My latest response “Well, I’ll still keep you all in my prayers” with a quick change of topic for the sake of family peace. Your thoughts and suggestions?

That is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE thing to do to a child, ANY child, regardless of the religion!

Let me tell you something: I am Jewish, and have worked in ecumenical relations for a number of years. One area of work we do is studying the effects of interfaith marriage on young children.

Studies have shown that often, when Jews and nonJews intermarry, they say the same thing: “we will let the child decide when he is older”. This psychologically is a very bad move.

Children at a certain stage, begin searching for their identity. They see their friends belonging to this or that religious/ethnic group, and they begin wondering what theirs is. A child NEEDS a group to identify with!

Children raised as “nothings” often wind up in religious cults. This has been proven from various studies which have been done. They begin a search for their identity as children that often never ends, and many become susceptible to cults.

I’ve worked to get kids out of cults as an exit counselor, and I can tell you, I see this kind of thing all the time.

 

[Inman]

I think one way to approach it would be to point out the child can’t make an informed decision unless he is educated about the faith. Confirmation is a good example. Suggest they make the child go to mass and pre-confirmation classes, but leave it up to the child whether to receive the sacrement.

 

[He_Man]

Such a foolish argument.

Do they make their child eat vegetables? Eat period?

Do they change the child’s diapers? Why, unless they’ve asked specifically to be cleaned?

Do they “force” medication and homework on the child?

If the answer is yes, then they are just lazy with regards to Church, and really don’t care. That’s the bottom line.

At least make them admit they are being lazy and don’t care at all, and stop hiding behind their BS excuses about “deciding when he is ready.”

 

[tessi]

It’s very common nowadays to hear parents say “we will let him decide later” about religion. That obviously means that those parents don’t care very much abut it, they don’t think is important like vaccination or school or health. In my opinion, if a child is not going to receive catholic education, better not baptize him because anyway the natural course of his life will be to choose nothing. I’ve seen that; those baptized just for the social thing and now they don’t beleive in anything. Anyway I’m not sure because I don’t know how God works through the sacraments. I remember the novel “The end of the affair”.

 

[lizaanne]

Since the parents won’t get him baptized, they probably also have no intention of taking him to church.

I suggest you attempt expose the child to the faith. Ask if you can take him to Mass once in a while. Invite him to your parish festival and other fun, social parish activites, especially with the childrens groups. Buy him age-appropriate books that explain the faith. When you eat with him, say grace before the meal. Take him on errands with you, and on the way, stop by your church to light a devotional candle. Explain what you are doing. Let him observe you using holy water and making the sign of the cross, and genuflecting; and teach him how to do these things and what they mean.

In other words, over the months and years, let him see your faith in action. He may want to be in RCIA some day, thanks to your influence and example.

This OUTSTANDING! I’ll tell you why!

My mother was exactly this way - “let her decide on her own”. My parents never had me baptized (even though my father is Catholic).

However - my paternal grandfather, God rest his soul, took me to Mass. He was always saying his rosary. He lived the example of a good Catholic to me. And had he not done that, I never would have decided to be baptized and confirmed into the Faith when I was 34. It is because of HIS influence on my life as that example that I had my only exposure to the Catholic Faith. And it was just enough to make me realize that the Catholic Church is Home.

And trust me - I did search other options. But his influence always stayed with me.

~Liza

 

[tomarin]

you could try the “what harm would it do” line of argument or appeal to tradition. i do think what they’re saying is basically an excuse for being lazy.

 

[PoliSciProf]

A lot of wisdom here. Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

If the parents don’t attend, that’s where you have to start. It would be hypocrisy at best to insist they raise the child in a faith they don’t practice themselves.

Pray for them, and show them by the example of your own life that regular church attendence would make thier lives better, and not in ‘pie in the sky when you die’ terms.

If the faith doesn’t make you kinder, gentler, more loving and more happy, you’ve missed the point.

 

[wanner47]

That is a HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE thing to do to a child, ANY child, regardless of the religion!

Let me tell you something: I am Jewish, and have worked in ecumenical relations for a number of years. One area of work we do is studying the effects of interfaith marriage on young children.

Studies have shown that often, when Jews and nonJews intermarry, they say the same thing: “we will let the child decide when he is older”. This psychologically is a very bad move.

Children at a certain stage, begin searching for their identity. They see their friends belonging to this or that religious/ethnic group, and they begin wondering what theirs is. A child NEEDS a group to identify with!

Children raised as “nothings” often wind up in religious cults. This has been proven from various studies which have been done. They begin a search for their identity as children that often never ends, and many become susceptible to cults.

I’ve worked to get kids out of cults as an exit counselor, and I can tell you, I see this kind of thing all the time.

Spot on.

My brother and sister-in-law (both born and raised Protestant) asked me to be my nephew’s godmother (in a Protestant baptism) after he was born. I expressed concern given that I’m Catholic, and I couldn’t make a promise to help raise him in the Protestant faith. They gave me the whole “we’re letting him choose when he’s older” schtick and that I wouldn’t have to promise to raise him Protestant – just Christian. So, I accepted – and my intent, if I’m able, is to take both of my nephews to Mass and etc. with me whenever I have the opportunity, and to share my faith with them when they’re old enough to understand. I’ve already started by giving my brother a copy of “Catholicism for Dummies” and telling him it’s so his boys can know about one of the myriad options they can choose from.

I think the whole “we’ll let them choose” thing is from parents who simply don’t recognize the authority of the Catholic Church. To them, it’s not important if you’re a member of THE Church as long as you’re a member of A church – i.e., the “we’re all the same” mentality. It’s sad.