Wealth and Catholic teaching

[nico1089]

vern humphrey:

Which is why we have a duty to maximize the talents which God gave us.

You don’t deny that there is suffering and poverty in the world? Then those who can must help alleviate that suffering and poverty – that is, we must produce a surplus for the poor, and not consume all we produce, or more.

Yet we do have people who can work and who will not – and they consume what should rightfully go to those who cannot work.

Yes, I would agree with what you said, if maximizing our talents does alleviate suffering and poverty. However, many lose sight of the end goal through the means. Speaking for myself, that is exactly what happened. If God didn’t mercifully intervene I would surely be hell-bound. Let me tell you, his merciful intervention didn’t seem so merciful at the time! LOL!—nicolo

 

[vern_humphrey]

nico1089:

Yes, I would agree with what you said, if maximizing our talents does alleviate suffering and poverty. However, many lose sight of the end goal through the means. Speaking for myself, that is exactly what happened. If God didn’t mercifully intervene I would surely be hell-bound. Let me tell you, his merciful intervention didn’t seem so merciful at the time! LOL!—nicolo

I understand you perfectly – of course, many a man who does not maximize his God-given talents also falls into evil ways. It isn’t hard work and thrift that leads one astray, nor is it poverty that keeps one on the straight and narrow. It is one’s own heart.

 

[vern_humphrey]

ahimsaman72:

Of course - right or wrong or indifferent.

You keep trying to make this personal. I can sense your anger in every post.

Rather than be an occasion of sin to you, I will not respond.

 

[ahimsaman72]

vern humphrey:

You keep trying to make this personal. I can sense your anger in every post.

Rather than be an occasion of sin to you, I will not respond.

Well, of course I am human and experience frustration - that’s exactly what I am experiencing with your posts. And, does that frustration an occasion to sin? You see, I continue to feel these jabs from you just as surely as you feel them from me. Anger and frustration are not inherently sinful. (Be ye angry and sin not). It is possible to be angry and not sin.

I have been disagreeing with your philosophy - point blank - and showing the fallacy of it. That’s not making it personal. Are you telling me that you haven’t been frustrated by this thread? C’mon, don’t get all sanctiminious on me. I’m sticking to the facts - and you have come to the point where you can’t assert your point any more because it would be shown to be unethical.

Peace…don’t worry - be happy

 

[vern_humphrey]

ahimsaman72:

Well, of course I am human and experience frustration - that’s exactly what I am experiencing with your posts. And, does that frustration an occasion to sin? You see, I continue to feel these jabs from you just as surely as you feel them from me.

Then you must look into your own heart. When someone “makes” you angry, you are giving that person control of your emotions and ultimately your mind.

ahimsaman72:

Anger and frustration are not inherently sinful. (Be ye angry and sin not). It is possible to be angry and not sin.

But not in this case. We are both Catholic, involved in a simple discussion. There is no reason or justification for anger, nor for attacking the person with whom you debate.

ahimsaman72:

I have been disagreeing with your philosophy - point blank - and showing the fallacy of it. That’s not making it personal. Are you telling me that you haven’t been frustrated by this thread? C’mon, don’t get all sanctiminious on me. I’m sticking to the facts - and you have come to the point where you can’t assert your point any more because it would be shown to be unethical.

In fact, I am not frustrated – “amused” would be a better word.

As for not asserting my point, I continue to assert that we all have an obligation to maximize our God-given talents.

I continue to assert that we all have the capability of doing that --regardless of flawed understandings of economics.

I continue to assert that those who fail in their duty to maximize their God-given talents have failed in their obligation to society.

 

[ahimsaman72]

vern humphrey:

Then you must look into your own heart. When someone “makes” you angry, you are giving that person control of your emotions and ultimately your mind.

But not in this case. We are both Catholic, involved in a simple discussion. There is no reason or justification for anger, nor for attacking the person with whom you debate.

I’m not Catholic - I’m a backslidden Baptist who studied eastern religion for a while and found myself back into it recently.

In fact, I am not frustrated – “amused” would be a better word.

As for not asserting my point, I continue to assert that we all have an obligation to maximize our God-given talents.

I continue to assert that we all have the capability of doing that --regardless of flawed understandings of economics.

I continue to assert that those who fail in their duty to maximize their God-given talents have failed in their obligation to society.

I find it incredible that you have been “amused” by my posts. I’ve given my heart and mind to my posts and you have simply been amused - thanks

You continue to assert these things but will not show the proofs for them. That’s all I’m asking for. The same things are repeated with no explanation or source documents.

 

[ahimsaman72]

For all - i have begun a new thread here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1038129#post1038129

which is part of a post from me giving an example of a person’s role in society and the implications of a philosophy that says all people should strive to be something that they are not. I welcome any all to join and provide dialogue and hopefully mutual understanding will be the result.

Peace…

 

[vern_humphrey]

ahimsaman72:

I’m not Catholic - I’m a backslidden Baptist who studied eastern religion for a while and found myself back into it recently.]/quote]

My mistake.

ahimsaman72:

I find it incredible that you have been “amused” by my posts. I’ve given my heart and mind to my posts and you have simply been amused - thanks

I find it incredible that you have been “angered and frustrated” by my posts. I’ve given my heart and mind to my posts and you have simply been frustrated - thanks

I find it incredible that you have been “amused” by my posts. I’ve given my heart and mind to my posts and you have simply been amused - thanksYou continue to assert these things but will not show the proofs for them. That’s all I’m asking for. The same things are repeated with no explanation or source documents.

You started by claiming what I asserted was not possible. I’ve advanced plenty of proof that it is possible for people to maximize their God-given talents.

And I would assume that no one would dispute that we all have an obligation to do all we can to help our fellow man – no proof needed.

 

[Anonymous_1]

I disagree with the people who haev said that Jesus never said anythign about investing money or how we use it. In the parable of the servants the talons we are given an example of three servantsne who is given 10 talons, one five and one 1 talon. This money is entrusted to them. When the Master returns He asks His servants what they had done with their money. The two who had invested their money and gained a return were praised, and more was given to them, the one who did not invest it was condemned.

Money is a resource at our disposal to do good, it is not evil. It is to serve us, we are not to serve it! We are to give charitably with what we have been given to be thankful for what we have. I think money is just like everything esle in our lives…we need to be working to completley surrender it to the will of God without abandon or reservation. To some are asked to sacrifice more than others.

Those virtuous Saints that have gone before us consecrating themselves to poverty by God’s grace certainly have lived a life that is worthy of praise before God! May we all find the willingness and grace from God to make such a courageous act of love and obedience to Him!

 

[jco2004]

contemplative:

Poverty is not always praiseworthy, but only when it represents a free choice according to the Gospel commandment.

Many are poor in terms of possessions and very miserly in spirit, and those people will not be saved through their poverty but damned by their attitude of mind.

Not every poor person therefore is worthy of praise, but only those who of their own choice put the commandment of the Lord before all the treasures of the world. ~Basil the Great~

This thing called poverty, my dear vytautas, you cannot measure. You cannot measure a man or woman’s poverty by bank account, possesions, occupation or yearly wage. You cannot measure. This isn’t up to you to measure. Just think about your own actions and words in this thread and realize that not only are you being judgemental but envious of the belongings of others.

What presumption on your part, to pretend to know the heart of another, and to ascribe the worst motivations to them.

But since you are such an expert on St. Basil, I wonder why you passed over the following of his statements:

“Who is the covetous man? One for whom plenty is not enough. Who is the defrauder? One who takes away what belongs to everyone. And are you not covetous, are you not a defrauder, when you keep for private use what you were given for distribution? When some one strips a man of his clothes we call him a thief. And the one who might clothe the naked and does not- should not he be given the same name? The bread in your hoard belongs to the hungry; the cloak in your wardrobe belongs to the naked; the shoes you let rot belong to the barefoot; the money in your vaults belongs to the destitute. All you might help and do not- to all these you are doing wrong.” - St. Basil the Great, Sermon on “The Rich Fool”

“So whoever loves his neighbor as himself owns no more than his neighbor does. But you have a great fortune. How can this be, unless you have put your own interests before those of others?… I know many people who fast, pray, groan, and do any kind of pious work that doesn’t affect their pockets, but at the same time they give nothing to the needy. What good are their merits? The kingdom of heaven is closed to them.” - St. Basil the Great, Homilia VII.

Joe

 

[jco2004]

Anonymous_1:

I disagree with the people who haev said that Jesus never said anythign about investing money or how we use it. In the parable of the servants the talons we are given an example of three servantsne who is given 10 talons, one five and one 1 talon. This money is entrusted to them. When the Master returns He asks His servants what they had done with their money. The two who had invested their money and gained a return were praised, and more was given to them, the one who did not invest it was condemned.

This passage quite obviously has to do with faith and spiritual gifts, not with one’s investment strategy. Joe

 

[vern_humphrey]

jco2004:

This passage quite obviously has to do with faith and spiritual gifts, not with one’s investment strategy. Joe

And your authority for saying it is only spiritual gifts is, what?