Wealth and Vocations

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tonyh12

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Am i right in assuming ALL religious orders require you to sell your house , possessions and give all money to that order as a pre-condition to joining (ie: vow of poverty)?

Is it possible to just keep the money in a bank account?

I live alone in quite a nice house i own , and have saved some money etc , and notice parish priests can keep their money (i don’t wish to particularly spend it on material things - despite house i live quite frugally , cycle instead of drive etc , and down sized jobs - now on a low wage - money is not important but it could be handy for retiring , inheritance to my nephew / nieces when i die etc)

Although i believe in miracles , i don’t feel a Parish priest would suit me as i am very shy , perhaps as consequence of years of living alone , but i am contemplative , and currently live quite a simple life and would consider looking into a religious order (though at this stage i would be thinking more of just a retreat/holiday)

PS I am 43 btw unmarried , and only recently had first communion (unannounced), i live in UK but would consider travelling

Thank you 🙂
 
It would depend on the order, but I think most of them require a vow of poverty. It sounds like you are having a bit of a problem detaching yourself from your worldly goods, are you sure you are being called to the priesthood or religious life? Just because you are not married does not mean you are ment to be a priest. Maybe you could inquire about being a deacon?
 
There are many paths to Christ.

Some men become “secular priests” and work directly for the local bishop in parish ministries.

Some men become secular parish priests and join the military as chaplains. I know of some parish priests who have volunteered for various missions including Alaska and on Indian reservations in the Southwest USA.

Some men join various religious orders; there must be hundreds of different orders; and serve in all different ways. When living in community, they share and need to get permission for various things. On the other hand, they often achieve high educational status and professional activity.

Father Benedict Groeschel was put through a PhD program and was given charge of the ministry for the poorest of the poor AND now has a live television call-in program on EWTN and also set up what is one of the fastest growing new religious orders in the Church. Fr. Benedict was also dead for a while; had his whole right side crushed, skull fracture, “etc”.

You just never know what path and plan that God has in mind for each of us.

I know of one priest who is a professional musician and works on Broadway as a musical director while serving as a Catholic priest in parish work, giving retreats, Catholic music concerts, etc.

Ask around and see what is available for you.

Priests do travel a lot. I know an Irish priest who worked in Zaire for decades and learned all the local languages; he went back to school in the U.S. and last I heard has a prison ministry. Speaks Celtic and Swahili.

One U.S. priest spent his whole life in the Philippines [and wrote a bunch of books that are best sellers in the U.S.] and another in Thailand. A Philippine priest spend years in a U.S. parish; he had gotten an MBA in finance, set up banks in the Philippines for poor people. Another priest was ordained in Ghana, joined the Ghanian army as a chaplain, served as a missionary in Ghana, riding a circuit out in the bush with a jeep, and all over the world, came to the U.S. for medical treatment for some conditions he acquired while working for the United Nations peacekeeping forces, and is now doing marvelous parish work in the U.S.
 
Let us separate here. To be a religious is one thing. To be a priest is another . They are not the same vocation or calling.

A man is called to be a priest. He is called to share in the priesthood of Jesus Christ. This man is not a consecrated man or a consecrated religious. He makes no vows, of any kind, contrar to popular myth. Therefore, he can own property and keep any property that he brings with him when he is ordained.

A man can be called to be a religious. He is called to share in the brotherhood of Jesus Christ. Therefore, as a brother among other brothers, he lives like Christ and the apostles did, in a community dependent on the charity of Divine Providence. These men consecrate their lives to the Gospel by making vows. Usually, they make three vows: obedience, poverty and chastity. Some communities make a fouth vow. The Benedictines make vows of obedience and stability.

However they are worded, the vows of the consecrated religious require detachment from material things. This means that we do not own anything. Canon law is very clear that we do not give our material goods to the religious community that we join. We can give it to anyone outside of the community, but never to the community that we’re joining. That creates a conflict of interest.

There are two kinds of vows of poverty: a solemn vow of poverty and a simple vow of poverty.

If you join a religious order you must make a solemn vow of poverty. A solemn vow of poverty means that neither you nor the order owns property, has inheritances, or is entitled to finacial remuneration from any source. Therefore, you must sign a legally binding document whereby you give away your posessions the day before you make solemn vows.

If you join a religioius congregation you make a simple vow of poverty. A simple vow of poverty means that the congregation may decide whether it can own property in common. It can also decided if the members can own property that another person holds for them in trust. However, they may never use it or administer it. It’s as if you never owned it. It is held in trust for you heir, if you have one. Many congregations do not allow this. They require that you surrender all property to another person and give up the title to it. But since the congregation is not a religious order, it has the freedom to allow ownership, but not use of the porperty…

Religious orders do not have administration nor ownership of property nor can the members inherit property.

Sometimes men are called to be both: priests and religious. If they become religious, they must follow the rules of poverty of their religious congregation or religious order.

In our community we do not own property as individuals or as a community. The night before we make final vows, we sign a legal document with a lawyer, giving away anything that we have and anything that we may acquire to a person or charity of our choice. We do not even own a religious house. We rent and we beg for the rent money when we can’t get enough work to pay for it.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
tonyh12 said:
Am i right in assuming ALL religious orders require you to sell your house , possessions and give all money to that order as a pre-condition to joining (ie: vow of poverty)?

Is it possible to just keep the money in a bank account?

I live alone in quite a nice house i own , and have saved some money etc , and notice parish priests can keep their money (i don’t wish to particularly spend it on material things - despite house i live quite frugally , cycle instead of drive etc , and down sized jobs - now on a low wage - money is not important but it could be handy for retiring , inheritance to my nephew / nieces when i die etc)

Although i believe in miracles , i don’t feel a Parish priest would suit me as i am very shy , perhaps as consequence of years of living alone , but i am contemplative , and currently live quite a simple life and would consider looking into a religious order (though at this stage i would be thinking more of just a retreat/holiday)

PS I am 43 btw unmarried , and only recently had first communion (unannounced), i live in UK but would consider travelling

Thank you 🙂
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If you do not feel that the diocesan priesthood would suit you because of your shyness- which you suggest may be due to your years of living alone, how do you think you will handle living in community with a group of other men? Religious take a vow of poverty- which means they don’t own anything themselves. Having property and a private bank account would break that vow. You would need to get rid of those things before joining the religious life- if you are called to that.

This forum is not the place to get definitive answers on what you should do with your life, but in order to find out what God wants of you, I recommend you start with prayer and frequent reception of the sacraments. Regular spiritual direction, as well as a retreat, might help you as well.
 
tonyh12 said:
Am i right in assuming ALL religious orders require you to sell your house , possessions and give all money to that order as a pre-condition to joining (ie: vow of poverty)?

Is it possible to just keep the money in a bank account?

I live alone in quite a nice house i own , and have saved some money etc , and notice parish priests can keep their money (i don’t wish to particularly spend it on material things - despite house i live quite frugally , cycle instead of drive etc , and down sized jobs - now on a low wage - money is not important but it could be handy for retiring , inheritance to my nephew / nieces when i die etc)
Click to expand...
As a religious you would be asked to surrender all that property and accounts to whomever you want, before you may final vows. You may not keep it, even in an account. We own nothing of our own. You may give it to your family members. Religious communities do not ask you to give them your assets. It’s a conflict of interests.

As for retirement, unlike diocesan priests, members of religious orders of men do not retire. If we become to old to engage in active ministry we live with our community. Our brothers care for us. That is the true meaning of brotherhood. No one leaves the community to retire. Sometimes, this is very rare, if a member of the community needs highly specialized care that we cannot provide within the religious house, we find a suitable placement for our brothers, such as a Catholic nursing home. But we take care of our own and keep them as close to home as possible.

Right now, I’m very sick with cancer. I live with my brothers. I was the superior and the director of a high school. Because of my health, I can no longer fulfill those duties. So I am the novice master. I also do retreat work, spiritual direction, youth ministry, religious education, and pastoral care for men and women who are suffering from the ills of abortion, embryonic stem cell research, and euthenasia. This lighter schedule allows me more time to rest, because I don’t have a fix schedule as I did when I was a high school director. I live with two of my brothers. They take care of the finances along with any financial help that they can beg from the laity around us and from stipends that they get for their work around the diocese. The point is that we do not abandon our own and we do not retire. We work until we drop. When we can no longer work, we pray until it’s time to go home.
Although i believe in miracles , i don’t feel a Parish priest would suit me as i am very shy , perhaps as consequence of years of living alone , but i am contemplative , and currently live quite a simple life and would consider looking into a religious order (though at this stage i would be thinking more of just a retreat/holiday)
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I’m not sure how you are defining shy. There are people who are reserved. Is that what you mean? If you’re uncomfortable around people, then you may find religious life to be a torture. Even monks who live in silence must be able to live in community. As religious men we form a family. Like all families we do many things together. We pray. When we don’t pray, we work alongside each other. We spend a great deal of time together in silence and in study. At other times we play like any other family. Community recreation and community meals are an important part of family life, like any other healthy family. Even monastic and heremetical communities, such as the Carthusians have community requirements. For example, the Carthusians, who normally live alone in a cell all week, come together for a community period of about four hours once or twice a week. During this time they are expectred to talk to each other, share, listen and enjoy each other’s company.

Then there are what we religious call the community chapter. This is a formal meeting of the religious community that takes place at least once a month, maybe more often, depending on the community. The purpose of the chapter is to review our life, our mission and our progress in living the rule. It’s also an opportunity to discern together how to live our religious life. Whether one is a priest or not, one is expected to participate in all of these community functions. Of course there are also community obligations to which we are called under obedience such as leadership. When a religious is elected to be superior, formation director, councilor or vicar, it is not for him to decline. This is a call to obedience to the community. Christ expresses his wishes on how he wants the religious to serve his brothers. Only on very serious grounds may one decline such an election.
PS I am 43 btw unmarried , and only recently had first communion (unannounced), i live in UK but would consider travelling
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Thank you 🙂
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One idea that I can offer is that you look into a small community. Some people thrive in small communities. But my experience in formation work has taught me that people who are very much into themselves do not do well in large communities. They tend to become anonymous. This hurts the spiritual growth of the individual and it deprives the community of your gifts. Part of joining a community is to share the giftst that God has given you.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Thank you for all the helpful information , i think shyness is probably more of an “impediment” than wealth (though both are issues)! to becoming a Religious

My life at home is changing - i am spending a lot of time praying , all this is new to me … My shyness is a big problem so it is likely that i would find community living difficult (if not torturous - a (retired) Mother Teressa sister in church who has been inviting me to her home for v long chats (all about Religion - which is my favourite topic) thinks i may have a vocation, but doesn’t seem to see shyness as a problem - she’s great to talk to. I enjoy talking 1 to 1 or 1 to 3 , … but large crowds i fear a lot.

To be honest just going to Church has not been easy as i don’t usually go out otherwise (no pubs or restaurants), but i go there for God , and know he wants us all to fellowship - i know he wants me there (he wants us all there of course), i enjoy group worship and felt that was enough just changing my life (living like a monk in my own home)

To “JReducation” , I pray to our Lord that He will look after you , protect you and help you to cope with your suffering with Cancer, this terrible disease eclipses my problem of shyness … i’ll pray again for your healing in Church on Sunday

God Bless You All
Tony
 
PS Sorry meant to say Brother J R , rather than use the forum nameJReduction (cannot edit so PS’ing it here)

God Bless You

Tony
 
This thread is very interesting and helpful. I have not seen a discussion of what a Priest does after they retire. I have read in other posts the retirement age is 75 in the United States. Do retired Priests receive a retirement? Medical care? Housing?

I am not Catholic. My wife is. We try and be supportive of our parish, our local Priests, our diocese and the Catholic Church generally. I hope all of you are proud to be Catholic. Your church does more than any other NGO and way more than the vast majority of national governments for the poor, sick, disenfranchised and displaced. I am honored to be married to a Catholic and I am thankful for the warm welcome we always receive at every function.

Regards,
 
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