Wearing a Veil?

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Pre Vatican II was about headcovers, not necessarily about wearing a chapel veil. Wearing chapel veils, except as an alternative to other headcovers seems to have become a bigger idea this past year than it was before:)
Thank you for saying this. I have been accused in the past of everything from foggy memory to just being a big old liberal with no respect for Our Lord when I have pointed this out.

It’s my personal opinion that the laciness of what many of the young ones consider “the veil” evolves into a sort of romanticsm of the whole process and action of head covering. I don’t care if any woman decides to cover her head in church of her own accord, as a perosnal devotion. I have two peeves: Those who think “the veil” is** the** way to do it, and those who go on about how** all** women must or should do this.
 
I have two peeves: Those who think “the veil” is** the** way to do it, and those who go on about how** all** women must or should do this.
Well then - it’s a good thing that no one on this thread has said either thing! 😃

~Liza
 
Thank you for saying this. I have been accused in the past of everything from foggy memory to just being a big old liberal with no respect for Our Lord when I have pointed this out.

It’s my personal opinion that the laciness of what many of the young ones consider “the veil” evolves into a sort of romanticsm of the whole process and action of head covering. I don’t care if any woman decides to cover her head in church of her own accord, as a perosnal devotion. I have two peeves: Those who think “the veil” is** the** way to do it, and those who go on about how** all** women must or should do this.
Why must headcoverings causes such angry from people? No one is tapping anyone on the shoulder at mass and saying “You should be covered up and here is a veil for you to wear” but it sure seems that people have no problem automatically directing angry towards those who do were the veil.

It’s not romaticizing the headcovering by saying the veil. When i see the word “veil” in is interchangable with any headcovering because i realize that the veil is just one form of headcovering. I personal like the veil for numerous reasons. 1.) it is easy to put in my purse 2.) i have never been comfortable wearing a hat besides my baseball cap 3.) Down here in Texas i was use to see the Mexican grandmother’s wear the veil. So when i felt the calling to wear a headcovering i decided to wear the veil. No big deal about what version i choose to wear.
 
Why must headcoverings causes such angry from people? No one is tapping anyone on the shoulder at mass and saying “You should be covered up and here is a veil for you to wear” but it sure seems that people have no problem automatically directing angry towards those who do were the veil.
For me, this topic is irritating because it echoes the veiling of women in some Muslim countries which is almost synonymous, in my opinion, with restricting their basic human rights and this topic also suggests, to me, that people are more concerned with appearances rather than substance.

I think it’s in one of the Gospels where Jesus says not to be concerned so much with clothing and such, that the flowers in the fields are dressed more gloriously than Solomon ever could be, or it goes something like that…and for us to store our treasures in heaven…

Just my two cents, well, maybe it’s up to four cents since I already posted previously in this column.
 
i think that as Catholic woman wearing a head covering the meaning and symbolism is so completely different from why other cultures do it. Outsiders might look at us and think we are doing it for one reason or another but really it just comes down to our personal relationship to Christ and feeling the calling to do his will in our lives. I know i personally feel called by God to wear a headcovering when i come before him. It was almost an overnight thing. I went from not understanding it to suddenly feeling naked without it. For me its not restricting but completely freeing to worship God the way i think he is call me to.

We can go around and around debating it but ultimately i started this forum to rejoice in the decision that some of us have made to wear one and to support eachother who may not find support anywhere else. Also to help others to understand our decisions but never to pressure and judge others who dont wear one. Its all such a personal thing that i would never tell anyone that they should do it.
 
i think that as Catholic woman wearing a head covering the meaning and symbolism is so completely different from why other cultures do it. Outsiders might look at us and think we are doing it for one reason or another but really it just comes down to our personal relationship to Christ and feeling the calling to do his will in our lives. I know i personally feel called by God to wear a headcovering when i come before him. It was almost an overnight thing. I went from not understanding it to suddenly feeling naked without it. For me its not restricting but completely freeing to worship God the way i think he is call me to.

We can go around and around debating it but ultimately i started this forum to rejoice in the decision that some of us have made to wear one and to support eachother who may not find support anywhere else. Also to help others to understand our decisions but never to pressure and judge others who dont wear one. Its all such a personal thing that i would never tell anyone that they should do it.
huggles
Thanks for starting a lovely place for us to rejoice in veiling.
 
i think that as Catholic woman wearing a head covering the meaning and symbolism is so completely different from why other cultures do it. Outsiders might look at us and think we are doing it for one reason or another but really it just comes down to our personal relationship to Christ and feeling the calling to do his will in our lives. I know i personally feel called by God to wear a headcovering when i come before him. It was almost an overnight thing. I went from not understanding it to suddenly feeling naked without it. For me its not restricting but completely freeing to worship God the way i think he is call me to.

We can go around and around debating it but ultimately i started this forum to rejoice in the decision that some of us have made to wear one and to support eachother who may not find support anywhere else. Also to help others to understand our decisions but never to pressure and judge others who dont wear one. Its all such a personal thing that i would never tell anyone that they should do it.
Thank you for starting this thread. I agree with everything you said. I see the veil in the catholic tradition as something showing submittance to God in his prescene and i see the muslim headcoverings as a submittance to society and not to God since they wear it everywhere. Does that make sense? I would love to get the opinion of a muslim women. could be a topic for another thread…

You know what has amazed me. How many women have been replying they wish they could wear one but that they are afraid because they don’t want to be perceived incorrectly. It is just kind of reaffirming that i am not crazy when i got the urging and pushing that come from within to wear one. I wish everyone who felt the calling to wear a headcovering could feel comfortable enough to wear one.
 
Hello everyone,

I just found an interesting website that writes about the church and women wearing veils. Take a look and see what you think.

www.fatimafamily.org/index.php?main_page=page&id=41

eiram
I personally don’t like the article. It overlooks some very real changes that were taking place during the time period in which women stopped wearing hats to church.
Actually, hats were more commonly worn than veils. If a woman did not have a hat, she might wear a scarf tied under her chin. It was not until the mid sixties that I actually saw any woman wearing a veil as commonly depicted to represent traditional Catholicism.
I liked being able to take a chapel cap or veil out of my purse. It was much better than some of the alternatives including handkerchiefs, Kleenex, or as I recently heard a single white glove.
If you watch old movies, you will see that women typically wore hats and gloves when in pubic. In time, both men and women stopped wearing hats as a normal course of habit, at least in Western society.
I do not want a return to the mandated wearing of head covering. As mentioned it led to much silliness as women struggled to find anything to toss on her head before even entering a church building.
Does that mean that I am opposed to women who choose to voluntarily wear a simple scarf, hat, or veil when entering a church? That would be as silly as past antics.
At Mass today, a person had to look twice to realize that one of the women was in fact wearing a veil. The veil was black, as was her hair. The veil was tied so as to be form fitting to her head.
A friend of mine put this whole idea of wearing head coverings into perspective. Would a priest really tell a woman not to come to Mass without something on her head, considering that missing Mass is a mortal sin?
Although not required by law, I am sure head coverings will be more commonly worn in the place where I am moving.
 
There are a few older women at our church who wear veils. One homily our favorite pastor talked about how the Church never really said that it was OK to stop wearing head coverings. I guess it was a miscommunication, people started spreading this misconception that you didnt have to wear coverings anymore after vatican 2 and the Church never really spoke out to correct people. Anyway, he said that really woman still should. That got me thinking and reading about it. I think i would like to wear a veil? I might be self conscience at first but i think its really important too.

Anyway before i could come to a conclusion on what i was going to do my 6 yr old daughter pointed out one of the woman at our Church who wears one and said…I WANT ONE TOO! she walks around the house wearing one and being like Mary she says. One Sunday morning she was wearing her makeshift veil and wanted to wear it to Church and my husband wouldnt let her. So i researched veils and childrens veils. I sat down with her and explained that you can only wear a veil if you wear a veil over your heart and understand the role of a woman in the Church and in her family. She really seems to grasp it, she wants to practice being humble like our Heavenly Mother and i want to encourage it.

What do you all think about wearing a veil, either for yourselves or your children?? Do any of you wear one in a church where most of the woman don’t? Is that odd? I will be ordering veils for all our girls and myself this weekend and would love to hear your thoughts as well as what type and colors are most appropriate.

THANKS!
~Angela
In the old days (read: 50 years or more ago), women always wore hats as head coverings since it was part of the general culture. In all the vintage family films I have watched of my own kin, all the women and girls wear hats, usually of a flamboyant and showy and dressy persuasion. Not a one lending itself to to the impression of humility and humbleness and holiness, despite the head being covered. It was for show in those days, and just another accessory of fashion. Even the mantillas and their emphasis on fancy lacework would have been considered more showy than pious. Perhaps that is why the Church suggested doing away with the custom back in those days? The point was being lost in translation. Heck, you just have to see the opera Carmen to witness how a mantilla can be hot and sexy.😉

In any case, I grew up in a culture where no one wears hats, except for sunhats and baseball caps on hot sunny days, or toques, berets and hoods on freezing cold days. Wearing a head covering once a week would really distract me from paying attention to the mass. Not to mention, running the risk possibly showing off just how pious and holy I appear to be.

Women in the Middle East have always kept their heads covered for practical reasons, such as not being able to wash one’s hair all that often. Ditto for the old days here. They served as camouflage in a day when easily accessible hot water and shampoos and hair dryers and central heating were not readily available. A hygiene concern, in other words.

It’s what is on the inside that counts. I don’t need a head covering to make me feel pious. God knows how I feel inside, and that is what counts.
 
I agree that the article takes a view of pre-Vatican II Catholicism that just wasn’t accurate for many of us.

My personal experience was that head-coverings were often ethnic in nature. Veils tended to be limited to the more Latin cultures while hats and caps were more common for northern European Catholics. Other Catholics were more likely to wear scarves. It was not part of my cultural tradition to wear veils so for me “going back to the veil” sounds stupid. It wasn’t like we didn’t have mantillas, scarves, or chapel caps but they were considered second-class back-ups (a small step up from a Kleenix) for when a proper hat was not available or when our school beenies were forgotten.

Of course I have no problem with women wearing veils to Mass. But for many, if not most younger Catholic women, it’s probably not part of *their *Catholic heritage.
 
I am certainly not pre Vatican II. We converted in 1994. But I do cover my head in prayer and mass, and adoration etc. God gave me the “nudge”. And then He gave me provenence for why it should be done. So I do it.
Please, please, please do not be offended by this. That is not why I am giving this info. I do not want to cause anyone any problems.👋

Ver. 6. “But if a woman is not veiled, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be veiled.”

Thus, in the beginning he simply requires that the head be not bare: but as he proceeds he intimates both the continuance of the rule, saying, “for it is one and the same thing as if she were shaven,” and the keeping of it with all care and diligence. For he said not merely covered, but “covered over,” meaning that she be carefully wrapped up on every side. And by reducing it to an absurdity, he appeals to their shame, saying by way of severe reprimand, “but if she be not covered, let her also be shorn.” As if he had said, “If thou cast away the covering appointed by the law of God, cast away likewise that appointed by nature.”
But if any say, “Nay, how can this be a shame to the woman, if she mount up to the glory of the man?” we might make this answer; “She doth not mount up, but rather falls from her own proper honor.” Since not to abide within our own limits and the laws ordained of God, but to go beyond, is not an addition but a diminuation. For as he that desireth other men’s goods and seizeth what is not his own, hath not gained any thing more, but is diminished, having lost even that which he had, (which kind of thing also happened in paradise:) so likewise the woman acquireth not the man’s dignity, but loseth even the woman’s decency which she had. And not from hence only is her shame and reproach, but also on account of her covetousness. St John Chrysostom. HOMILY XXVI. ON THE VEILING OF WOMEN

St. Augustine did not make any exceptions, any more than St. John Chrysostom did; he prescribed the wearing of the veil for all women at all times, whether married or not. The Latin-reading reader will notice the word which the Saint uses for “uncover”: nudare, a pejorative word meaning “to strip” or “to make naked,” or even “to spoil” or “to plunder.” St. Augustine clearly takes a very strong view of women “stripping” their heads and “making naked” their hair, and consequently he must take a strong view about the importance of maintaining the sign of authority over woman’s head, the veil, the covering which conceals the woman’s nakedness.
  1. 4 Conclusion
It seems clear that the Fathers felt that removing a woman’s veil was, in a large sense, making her “naked,” stripping her of something that is vital for her real well-being. For it is, indeed, woman’s own well-being with which the Fathers were concerned; it is for her good that she ought to wear the veil, just as it is for man’s good that he not wear it. It is not a matter of enslavement and liberation, but of proper and improper place.
traditioninaction.org/religious/d008rpVeil_4_Goodman.htm
 
More interesting (at least to me) writings on veiling by the Church Fathers.

Hippolytus, a leader in the church at Rome around the year 200, compiled a record of the various customs and practices in that church from the generations that preceded him. His Apostolic Tradition contains this statement:

“And let all the women have their heads covered with an opaque cloth, not with a veil of thin linen, for this is not a true covering. [Hippolytus Apostolic Tradition”

Around the year 200, at Carthage, North Africa, Tertullian wrote a tract entitled, “The Veiling of Virgins.” Tertullian makes the argument that the passage applies to all females of age—not just to married women. Of course, Tertullian’s personal view is of little concern to us. But what is so valuable about this work of his is that he discusses the practices of different church in various parts of the world. Here are some key excerpts from his work:

"I also admonish you second group of women, who are married, not to outgrow the discipline of the veil. Not even for a moment of an hour. Because you can’t avoid wearing a veil, you should not find some other way to nullify it. That is, by going about neither covered nor bare. For some women do not veil their heads, but rather bind them up with turbans and woollen bands. It’s true that they are protected in front. But where the head properly lies, they are bare.

Others cover only the area of the brain with small linen coifs that do not even quite reach the ears… They should know that the entire head constitutes the woman. Its limits and boundaries reach as far as the place where the robe begins. The region of the veil is co-extensive with the space covered by the hair when it is unbound. In this way, the neck too is encircled.

The pagan women of Arabia will be your judges. For they cover not only the head, but the face also. . . . But how severe a chastisement will they likewise deserve, who remain uncovered even during the recital of the Psalms and at any mention of the name of God? For even when they are about to spend time in prayer itself, they only place a fringe, tuft [of cloth], or any thread whatever on the crown of their heads. And they think that they are covered"
scrollpublishing.com/store/HeadCovering.html
 
Well, since my locks are long shorn off, I guess I’m okay! It does say “shorn” and not “shaved”.👍

I think we have to take in the cultural context of the time and dress of the early Church fathers. We no longer wear loose robes that cover us from the tops of our necks down to the tips of our toes. And we cannot deny that women are/were symbols of family honour in desert societies, which is why honour killings are prevalent there now as they were then.

"And let all the women have their heads covered with an opaque cloth, not with a veil of thin linen, for this is not a true covering. [Hippolytus Apostolic Tradition"
**
Well, that counts the flimsy see through mantillas out, doesn’t it?
 
The lacy mantillas as so often depicted as tradtional head coverings were not worn in most areas until the mid 1960s. Even then, as already mentioned, they were a substitute for when a woman was not wearing a hat. Scarves were of generally heavier material, silk or even a light wool during the winter months.
It is not so much that women who remember the Church pre-Vatican II are opposed to wearing a head covering as it is a desire to not return to certain absurd practices simply to be in compliance with custom. Imagine walking by a church and feeling a prompting to go inside to light a candle, or maybe go to confession. Unfortunately, because you are not wearing any type of head covering, you are not even allowed inside the church. That was the reality of the time.
Hats were also a sign of fashion sense, with an additional stigma attached if you were lacking in that area.
The disposition of the heart is always more important than outward appearance.

It is a hat that I had not thought about for a long time. For Christmas in 1968 or 69, I received a fuzzy hat that covered my whole head with pompoms at the end of the strings that tied it together. That was the type of head covering worn against the cold of the Pacific Northwest. Yes, it was worn to Mass. It was obviously not appropriate for the climate in California. Needless to say, when I finally got rid of it, we moved to Wisconsin.
 
Me and the girls in my family wear veils. We get made fun of some, but thats their loss.
 
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More traditional maybe? The ladies are Jordanian Catholics.
And I am definitely not talking about abayas or hijab.
 
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