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allthewhile
Guest
if jeans are so dressy, would you reccomend that i wear them to a job interview?
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Meggie
Guest
They arenât considered dressy, thats why I was askingâŚI certinally wouldnât recommend that, but I also wouldnât recommend walking 2-3 miles to a job inerview either.
S
system
Guest
Oh, come on. Not the âjob interview / meeting the Presidentâ arguments again.
Most of the time any more, if formal dress is required itâs because weâre âsucking upâ, because we hope someone will see us in a better light than we really are. A competitive sort of thing. Well God sees right through all of that, and knows the true intentions in our hearts.
As long as one is not a distraction to others, almost any attire for Mass is fine - weekday or Sunday.
B
bengal_fan
Guest
depends on the job. if you are going to be a manager of a leviâs store i say youâd better if you want the job. i have worn jeans to 3 job interviews in my life and got all three. (now, the other ones i didnât wear jeans to i got also). it all depends on the type of work. if you are a vice-president of procter and gamble then no you donât wear jeans to a job interview, you save them for mass.if jeans are so dressy, would you reccomend that i wear them to a job interview?
P
philjane
Guest
i also go to daily mass & have since i was 19, but i went because my mother insisted on itâi worked downtown close to the basilica & finished work at 5:00 pm. Mass was at 5:15 & my mother thought it would be very nice if i went to mass before i came home for supper which was served at 6:00----if i came home earlier my mother wanted to know why so i started going to daily mass & have never stopped. i am now 57+ years old----i have worn jeans, or dress pants to daily mass for most of my lifeâi do wear dresses, or skirts to daily mass sometimes & i usually wear something more dressy to sunday mass but havenât alwaysâi am proud of you for doing this on your own----my husband & i met at daily mass & he was a saint in the making & i am sure that he is enjoying daily mass from his eternal home.
C
Catholicforlife
Guest
my deal with shorts is (aside from them being BBQ fare, and I am not going to a BBQ) is that they arenât overly modest. I live in Texas, it is hot here too. When someone is going up to communion, I donât really want to look at their legs. And I happen to think the president argument makes a good case. I seriously doubt anyone would show up to meet him in shorts, no matter the heat. It is about respect and being modest in dress.
jeans may not be overly dressy but they do cover your behind.
jeans may not be overly dressy but they do cover your behind.
K
Karl_Keating
Guest
Even if the âmeet the presidentâ argument isnât determinative, thereâs a point to it.
I find quite unpersuasive the arguments that âGod doesnât careâ or that âitâs hot as blazes here.â (If itâs that hot, youâre probably just walking from your air-conditioned car into a cool and maybe even air-conditioned church. And so what if you sweat a bit during Mass? Lightweight, highly-breathable, moisture-wicking pants would be about as comfortable as shorts. Unless you have an odd physiology, your lower legs arenât the parts that sweat; your head, arms, and torso are.)
The modesty argument is right so far as it goes, but itâs easy for anyone to wear improper clothing (to any function) without wearing immodest clothing.
The worst argument of all is âwe shouldnât dress up to show off before others.â I canât remember the last timeâmaybe twenty years ago?âI saw at Mass someone whom I suspected of overdressing in order to gain the attention of other Massgoers. Of course Iâve seen people (chiefly young women) who seem to be angling for attention but through their lack of clothing, not through the finery of their clothing.
Once you get past the modesty threshold and the cleanliness threshold, you are left with appropriateness as the measure.
Appropriateness is measured partly by local standards (which may change over time and which largely reduces to reasonble conformity with ongoing dress codes) and partly in the abstract (which means appropriateness is more than just a function of the popular vote).
My take on all this is that jeans are okay but shouldnât be worn if there is a practical alternative: If you have to walk a long way to church on a hot day, jeans may be fine. If you just have to walk from your car to the church door, and if you have better clothing, why not dress up one notch?
I rule out shorts entirely, partly because of the modesty issue, though I think that usually doesnât come into play even with shorts. My chief objection to shorts is that I think they necessarily are sensed as an indication of a devil-may-care attitude toward others in the congregation: âWhy should I dress any better for YOU?â
Sunday Mass, in particular, is a corporate experience. We are not there as so many individuals but as (I hate to use the word, but here it comes) a community. Social relations deserve a certain degree of respect shown through the artificiality of dressing better than we otherwise might be inclined to.
I hope not to hear the argument that âshorts donât hurt anyone.â Itâs not a matter of getting hurt. Itâs a matter of propriety. There may be nothing wrong with a young couple cuddling while sitting on a park bench. That same action while sitting in a pew at Mass is quite out of line.
Have I ever worn shorts to Mass? Yes, just last summer, in fact, when I was backpacking in the High Sierra in a group of four and Fr. Joseph Fessio celebrated Mass for us each day along the trail, using large rocks for altars. But I wouldnât think of wearing shorts to a parish church if I had access to regular pants.
I find quite unpersuasive the arguments that âGod doesnât careâ or that âitâs hot as blazes here.â (If itâs that hot, youâre probably just walking from your air-conditioned car into a cool and maybe even air-conditioned church. And so what if you sweat a bit during Mass? Lightweight, highly-breathable, moisture-wicking pants would be about as comfortable as shorts. Unless you have an odd physiology, your lower legs arenât the parts that sweat; your head, arms, and torso are.)
The modesty argument is right so far as it goes, but itâs easy for anyone to wear improper clothing (to any function) without wearing immodest clothing.
The worst argument of all is âwe shouldnât dress up to show off before others.â I canât remember the last timeâmaybe twenty years ago?âI saw at Mass someone whom I suspected of overdressing in order to gain the attention of other Massgoers. Of course Iâve seen people (chiefly young women) who seem to be angling for attention but through their lack of clothing, not through the finery of their clothing.
Once you get past the modesty threshold and the cleanliness threshold, you are left with appropriateness as the measure.
Appropriateness is measured partly by local standards (which may change over time and which largely reduces to reasonble conformity with ongoing dress codes) and partly in the abstract (which means appropriateness is more than just a function of the popular vote).
My take on all this is that jeans are okay but shouldnât be worn if there is a practical alternative: If you have to walk a long way to church on a hot day, jeans may be fine. If you just have to walk from your car to the church door, and if you have better clothing, why not dress up one notch?
I rule out shorts entirely, partly because of the modesty issue, though I think that usually doesnât come into play even with shorts. My chief objection to shorts is that I think they necessarily are sensed as an indication of a devil-may-care attitude toward others in the congregation: âWhy should I dress any better for YOU?â
Sunday Mass, in particular, is a corporate experience. We are not there as so many individuals but as (I hate to use the word, but here it comes) a community. Social relations deserve a certain degree of respect shown through the artificiality of dressing better than we otherwise might be inclined to.
I hope not to hear the argument that âshorts donât hurt anyone.â Itâs not a matter of getting hurt. Itâs a matter of propriety. There may be nothing wrong with a young couple cuddling while sitting on a park bench. That same action while sitting in a pew at Mass is quite out of line.
Have I ever worn shorts to Mass? Yes, just last summer, in fact, when I was backpacking in the High Sierra in a group of four and Fr. Joseph Fessio celebrated Mass for us each day along the trail, using large rocks for altars. But I wouldnât think of wearing shorts to a parish church if I had access to regular pants.
F
Fortiterinre
Guest
I agree that othersâ perception of your dress should be taken into account. When I was a kid we frequented the Saturday Vigil Mass, and we were always inspired by a woman who was a waitress at a family restaurant down the street who wore her (very modest) uniform to this Mass every weekend. It was clear that even after or before 8 hours on her feet, Mass was too important to her to be missed, and we were edified by this. You can walk in hot weather in khakis and polos as easily as you can in shorts, jeans and t-shirts, with a much better chance of edifying your fellow parishioners. But the equestrians edify me as much as the waitress didâyou are witnessing how nothing keeps you from Mass!
S
SHEMP
Guest
Karl Keating:
I donât believe that someone in shorts in a parish mass where that is accepted dress code is any different than Mr. Keating wearing shorts at a mass on a hiking trip.
Yes, the dress code can vary with the setting. I believe that the dress code can vary depending on the day of mass. It can vary depending on the time of the mass on a particular day. It can vary depending on the dress code for a particular parish.
I donât believe that someone in shorts in a parish mass where that is accepted dress code is any different than Mr. Keating wearing shorts at a mass on a hiking trip.
K
kevinfraser
Guest
I mean nothing personal by what I have written here. His Peace!
As Catholics, we are called not to express our opinion on matters of morals, but to follow obediently the teaching of the Church. Some of the contributors to this discussion may not like the prospect of discomfort, especially in our âadvancedâ western culture where convenience and comfort are the pearls of great price.
Some reading this may deny the authority of the Popes and Cardinals in these matters, insisting that there is something to do with âdemocracyâ and âfreedom of choiceâ involved.
This is the Catholic bottom-line on modesty of dress. Like all Catholic teaching on matters of morality, it bears the distinctive signature of the Holy Spirit. I urge you to resist any temptation to argue with it for the cause of comfort or convenience, or to issue a vague threat that you may part company if this teaching does not allow these.
I will no doubt be labelled and reviled by some for pointing this out. God please may I be totally wrong about that.
national-coalition.org/modesty/moddecre.html
Here are some of the arguments that I expect someone will try to convince me of, correct me about, open my mind to, tell me to âlighten upâ or âbe realisticâ about, etc⌠Some of them have already been put forth here. I have not singled anyone out. All of these and many others are attempts to except and subvert. We ALL use them. To escape from what? Truth? Donât be blind: Too much to lose.
That was only for Italyâthis is America. [Constitutionalism]
It was only for schools run by religious. [Minimalism]
Itâs unfair/oppressive to (fill in special interest group). [Constitutionalism]
That was 1928 and times have changed. [Modernism]
But that isnât ex cathedra. [Legalism]
Youâre just over-reacting. [Conformism]
You must be a repressed person. [Accusation of fault or sickness]
We do things more (insert PC synonym for âMYOBâ) around (insert name of region). [Popularism]
Our priest doesnât mind. [Legalism]
At least I go to Mass. [Childish passive/aggressive empty threat to leave the Eucharist forever if His other friends donât stop picking on meâmay as well say âIâm going to eat some wormsââKarl, what is the âismâ for this?]
The sheer childishness of that last one really rankles. Iâm astonished to hear a Priest said that to someone. If you really want to skip Mass, in favor of wearing clothing that could make others fall into sins of the eyes, you are free to do that, but you donât acknowledge how easy those sins are to commit, how serious they are, and how secular culture encourages them. Our consciences know better. Donât we all seek to kill our consciences with little attacks like this?
I urge you all: think like adults. Most of us do not âput aside childish things.â God and Eternity by their nature cannot change for the better. We by our God-given nature can. Thatâs why Satan hates you so much.
My brothers and sisters, we must not love our comfort too much. We cannot absolve ourselves from our responsibility to protect against scandal of any kind for our mere comfort. Because comfort we give ourselves will serve us nothing at our Judgement.
As Catholics, we are called not to express our opinion on matters of morals, but to follow obediently the teaching of the Church. Some of the contributors to this discussion may not like the prospect of discomfort, especially in our âadvancedâ western culture where convenience and comfort are the pearls of great price.
Some reading this may deny the authority of the Popes and Cardinals in these matters, insisting that there is something to do with âdemocracyâ and âfreedom of choiceâ involved.
This is the Catholic bottom-line on modesty of dress. Like all Catholic teaching on matters of morality, it bears the distinctive signature of the Holy Spirit. I urge you to resist any temptation to argue with it for the cause of comfort or convenience, or to issue a vague threat that you may part company if this teaching does not allow these.
I will no doubt be labelled and reviled by some for pointing this out. God please may I be totally wrong about that.
national-coalition.org/modesty/moddecre.html
Here are some of the arguments that I expect someone will try to convince me of, correct me about, open my mind to, tell me to âlighten upâ or âbe realisticâ about, etc⌠Some of them have already been put forth here. I have not singled anyone out. All of these and many others are attempts to except and subvert. We ALL use them. To escape from what? Truth? Donât be blind: Too much to lose.
That was only for Italyâthis is America. [Constitutionalism]
It was only for schools run by religious. [Minimalism]
Itâs unfair/oppressive to (fill in special interest group). [Constitutionalism]
That was 1928 and times have changed. [Modernism]
But that isnât ex cathedra. [Legalism]
Youâre just over-reacting. [Conformism]
You must be a repressed person. [Accusation of fault or sickness]
We do things more (insert PC synonym for âMYOBâ) around (insert name of region). [Popularism]
Our priest doesnât mind. [Legalism]
At least I go to Mass. [Childish passive/aggressive empty threat to leave the Eucharist forever if His other friends donât stop picking on meâmay as well say âIâm going to eat some wormsââKarl, what is the âismâ for this?]
The sheer childishness of that last one really rankles. Iâm astonished to hear a Priest said that to someone. If you really want to skip Mass, in favor of wearing clothing that could make others fall into sins of the eyes, you are free to do that, but you donât acknowledge how easy those sins are to commit, how serious they are, and how secular culture encourages them. Our consciences know better. Donât we all seek to kill our consciences with little attacks like this?
I urge you all: think like adults. Most of us do not âput aside childish things.â God and Eternity by their nature cannot change for the better. We by our God-given nature can. Thatâs why Satan hates you so much.
My brothers and sisters, we must not love our comfort too much. We cannot absolve ourselves from our responsibility to protect against scandal of any kind for our mere comfort. Because comfort we give ourselves will serve us nothing at our Judgement.
K
kevinfraser
Guest
President test, NOTHING. The gift of the Holy Eucharist is by an infinite measure, the most important meeting you will ever have in ALL OF ETERNITY, to say nothing of the time between the Masses you are graced by God to attend.
This inculturated wish to except and excuse, that we live byâWE LIVE BY ITâ(what is wrong with this picture?) only underlines again the severe loss of reverence that has infected the entire Roman Catholic faithful in the Western world. I must include myself because we are ALL poor sinners.
I am sorry to say that in North America especially, our tiny fraction of the mysical body of Christ is the most gravely infected with this prideful disease of insisting on self-absolution.
What a nerve I have to even THINK of doing that. Thatâs where John Kerry lives. May God melt his heart of stone.
Especially after I was moved so deeply by meditating on His scourging, which was expressly to atone for our sins of impurity, at âThe Passion of the Christ.â
If we had the reverence for the Eucharist that we should have, not one single writer here would have the slightest contempt for the definitive teaching of Pope Pius IX on Christian modesty. Iâm afraid little will change and many will instead defend their ârightâ to wear âwhatever I wantâ as long as itâs âwithin reason.â
Whose reason?
Maybe we need to dress more suitably for our mission at all times instead of asking if itâs our daily dress is suitable for daily Mass?
Maybe whether we are consecrated religious or not, we need to consider our clothing to be the habit of our interior life.
Do I want to please Jesus enough to follow what Pope Pius IX taught about modesty?
If you havenât written me off as a kook yet, youâll be blessed by reading this Iâm sure. Think of it this way: No amount of modesty could be too pleasing to Jesus. How much do you want to give him?
Hereâs where the answer lies: Modesty is ONE thing you and I CAN afford to give Him. In abundance. How much eternal thanks from God almighty do we want for our modesty? Itâs a trade.
B
bengal_fan
Guest
modesty yes. pharasaical restrictions, no. shorts are not an issue as long as they are modest and i feel that most adults know what this means (and parents need to speak to this). khaki shorts that come to my knees is not going to cause anyone to sin unless they are bitter people who would be looking for something else to get upset about anyway. styles and acceptable clothing do change and have changed since 1955 (arbitrary date). i wonder if they had this argument as the toga started to go out of style? âlook at those men in pants! what a disgrace! they should be wearing free flowing robes like me so they donât distract me.â this argument sounds absurd to us now.
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nucatholic
Guest
Meggie, Iâm 19 also and I attend daily mass as much as I can. I am back home from college for the summer and I wear casual clothes to daily mass. I am part of the poor-college-kid caste so I only have two sets of clothes that I set aside for going to Sunday mass. I actually bought them specifically for mass because I am still in the process of conversion and I didnât attend my old Evangelical church much my first semester. Casual is fine, its just good to see that someone else my age wants to go to daily mass!
J
John_Higgins
Guest
Meggie, good for you. Wear 'em.
God bless!
John
God bless!
John
K
Karl_Keating
Guest
Kevin, I think the âismâ for that attitude is âstupidism,â but Iâd better check the dictionary.
K
Karl_Keating
Guest
I wore shorts to Mass on that backpacking trip because it wasnât possible to bring along better clothing. (I canât carry a 40-pound pack.) But, if I had a change of clothes, I wouldnât have hesitated to put them on, out of respect for the Lord.
Fr. Fessio brought along a full Mass kit, including stole and chasuble. He could have gotten by without the chasuble, which could have been skipped in such circumstances, but he wanted to be vested as well as possible.
I donât think our culture yet has reached the point where shorts are considered acceptable attire for non-leisure activities. (You will be turned away from St. Peterâs if youâre wearing shorts.) That a particular parish may have many people wearing shorts is beside the point. That doesnât tell me that dress standards as a whole have changed. It just tells me that many people in that parish dress improperly for Mass.
I wonder: Is there anyone on this thread who finds no problem whatsoever with people wearing (modest) shorts to Mass and yet who never himself would wear shorts to Mass? My guess is that just about all of the pro-shorts people are people who already wear shorts to Mass.
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nucatholic
Guest
Wearing shorts to mass? I thought that was out of the question unless you didnât have any other clothes? Honestly how many people out there have worn shorts to mass but had a choice of other clothing? If I could Iâd wear a suit and tie to mass on Sundays if only I had oneâŚunfortunately the cleaners ruined my Italian pin striped BEAUTIFUL Bachrach suit. 
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John_Higgins
Guest
I donât know about shorts, but I donât wear shorts anywhere, so Iâm not a good one to ask. One thing that I saw at Mass on a young person was a âCoed Naked Volleyballâ T-shirt. I wouldnât have noticed it, except he was on the way up to Communion.
This does remind me when I had visited Platteville for Bears training camp a few years ago. It was Sunday, nearing noon, and I was in LaCrosse WI. I saw a sign directing me to LaCrosse Cathedral, but I didnât know if it was Catholic or not. I had a few minutes before noon, so I waited and watched. After seeing shorts and t-shirts on the people going in, I realized it must be a Catholic church, and I went in.
John
This does remind me when I had visited Platteville for Bears training camp a few years ago. It was Sunday, nearing noon, and I was in LaCrosse WI. I saw a sign directing me to LaCrosse Cathedral, but I didnât know if it was Catholic or not. I had a few minutes before noon, so I waited and watched. After seeing shorts and t-shirts on the people going in, I realized it must be a Catholic church, and I went in.
John
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squirt
Guest
Karl Keating:
Anyway, I see a few people at Mass with nice âdressyâ shorts on when we have hot days around here. I just donât get the hang-up about shorts.
A woman can wear a skirt, but not shorts? Heck, shorts can be more modest and easier to sit in ⌠especially at our chapel where thereâs a good chance youâre going to end up sitting on the floor as part of the overflow crowd.
And whatâs the problem with men wearing dress shorts?
I guess I just donât get it âŚ
Iâve been lurking. Do I count? I hardly ever wear shorts. Of course, lately, when you have daytime highs in the 50s in July, there havenât been many people around here wearing shorts at all.
Anyway, I see a few people at Mass with nice âdressyâ shorts on when we have hot days around here. I just donât get the hang-up about shorts.
A woman can wear a skirt, but not shorts? Heck, shorts can be more modest and easier to sit in ⌠especially at our chapel where thereâs a good chance youâre going to end up sitting on the floor as part of the overflow crowd.
And whatâs the problem with men wearing dress shorts?
I guess I just donât get it âŚ
T
Tom
Guest
Go to an interview for a construction job in a 3 piece suit, you wonât get the job. The point is appropriate. In the tropics itâs totally appropriate to wear shorts and jeans.if jeans are so dressy, would you reccomend that i wear them to a job interview?
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