Wearing jeans to Daily Mass

[Charlemagne]

Karl Keating:

I wore shorts to Mass on that backpacking trip because it wasn’t possible to bring along better clothing. (I can’t carry a 40-pound pack.) But, if I had a change of clothes, I wouldn’t have hesitated to put them on, out of respect for the Lord.

Fr. Fessio brought along a full Mass kit, including stole and chasuble. He could have gotten by without the chasuble, which could have been skipped in such circumstances, but he wanted to be vested as well as possible.

I don’t think our culture yet has reached the point where shorts are considered acceptable attire for non-leisure activities. (You will be turned away from St. Peter’s if you’re wearing shorts.) That a particular parish may have many people wearing shorts is beside the point. That doesn’t tell me that dress standards as a whole have changed. It just tells me that many people in that parish dress improperly for Mass.

I wonder: Is there anyone on this thread who finds no problem whatsoever with people wearing (modest) shorts to Mass and yet who never himself would wear shorts to Mass? My guess is that just about all of the pro-shorts people are people who already wear shorts to Mass.

I don’t wear shorts to Church ever, even outside of Mass. I just think it’s inappropriate for men to wear shorts in Church. I’ve been out working in my backyard or running errands in shorts on a Saturday afternoon, and I’ll always change to long pants before going to Confession.

 

[Tom]

kevinfraser:

As Catholics, we are called not to express our opinion on matters of morals, but to follow obediently the teaching of the Church.

Kevin, I read the linked article and it does not refer to any particular “dress” shorts or otherwise, just “immodest”. It also only addressed females. Did I miss something? I’m not trying to be argumentative but are we required by Church teaching to wear suits and full length dresses to Mass? Should a woman’s calf show? Are jeans “immodest”? I understand being respectful I just don’t see wearing proper shorts or clean jeans as disrespectful.

kevinfraser:

Some reading this may deny the authority of the Popes and Cardinals in these matters, insisting that there is something to do with “democracy” and “freedom of choice” involved.

I don’t deny the authority of the Pope or cardinals, what is the teaching?

kevinfraser:

This is the Catholic bottom-line on modesty of dress.

? What is?
national-coalition.org/modesty/moddecre.html
It doesn’t say what you are implying.

kevinfraser:

My brothers and sisters, we must not love our comfort too much. We cannot absolve ourselves from our responsibility to protect against scandal of any kind for our mere comfort. Because comfort we give ourselves will serve us nothing at our Judgement.

Wearing jeans or shorts are “scandal”?

kevinfraser:

President test, NOTHING. The gift of the Holy Eucharist is by an infinite measure, the most important meeting you will ever have in ALL OF ETERNITY, to say nothing of the time between the Masses you are graced by God to attend.

Please, just let me know what “proper” is, a full suit? I’m not even trying to find the minimum allowable, just what is proper in your mind?

kevinfraser:

If we had the reverence for the Eucharist that we should have, not one single writer here would have the slightest contempt for the definitive teaching of Pope Pius IX on Christian modesty. I’m afraid little will change and many will instead defend their “right” to wear “whatever I want” as long as it’s “within reason.”

Again, the article covers immodest dress but doesn’t define it. What is suitable?

kevinfraser:

Maybe we need to dress more suitably for our mission at all times instead of asking if it’s our daily dress is suitable for daily Mass?

 

[Poisson]

Near the office where I work there is a church which has a noon mass I sometimes go to. Most of the people there are on their lunch break and are dressed the way they are dressed for work so there is a large variety from people in uniform to suits to work boots and cover-alls. It’s either go the way they are or don’t go at all. I think it’s better that they attend mass however they are dressed.

 

[system]

Catholicforlife:

my deal with shorts is (aside from them being BBQ fare, and I am not going to a BBQ) is that they aren’t overly modest.

Some are, some aren’t. Obviously, common sense applies. I don’t think common sense rules out all shorts.

And I happen to think the president argument makes a good case. I seriously doubt anyone would show up to meet him in shorts, no matter the heat.

You’re missing the point, I think. The president hasn’t counted the hairs on your head, he doesn’t know your innermost thoughts. God knows the intentions of your heart even better than you do, so he would not be impressed by overdressing. Wear what you want, so long as it’s not a blatant distraction. (I guess some are going to be distracted by shorts, no matter how dressy or modest.)
Karl Keating:

I rule out shorts entirely, partly because of the modesty issue, though I think that usually doesn’t come into play even with shorts. My chief objection to shorts is that I think they necessarily are sensed as an indication of a devil-may-care attitude toward others in the congregation: “Why should I dress any better for YOU?”

Wow, there’s an angle I hadn’t considered. People dress to send a coded message to those around them? I don’t buy it. Disrespect for “the community”? That sounds awfully Protestant. I hope no one cares what I think about them, because none of my attention is focused on them.

Another variation on this: in farm country where I grew up, occasionally someone would come to Mass without having cleaned up completely after morning chores. Or perhaps someone accidentally put on a pair of shoes that had stepped in “something”. I’m sure many of you would be as offended by that as you are by a pair of shorts. But we just weren’t raised to think that way.

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

A priest once told me that he was scandalized by the number of women who would come to the rectory in shorts. Imagine, he said, men living celibately, and women coming to their residence in shorts.

I’ve not worn shorts to Mass or the rectory, to my recollection, though I do wear capris sometimes, which are 3/4 length slacks.

We have so many fashion options these days, it shouldn’t be that hard to find something suitable to wear to Holy Mass.

Just a quick reminder: Our Lady of Fatima warned the three shepherd children that fashions would be introduced which would greatly offend Our Lord.

Save your shorts for the beach, for picnics, for recreation. I’m sad to see folks wearing shorts to Mass, because of the holy priest who once cited it as scandalous.

And while you’re sweating it out at Mass, would you offer your discomfort for the poor souls in purgatory? And for me, too, please?

Bless you for attending daily Mass!

Pax Christi. <><

 

[RichT]

pnewton:

Men should definitely not wear dresses to Mass!

Well, here in Phoenix where the weather is so mild, shorts are actaully quite the norm for men, even on Sunday.:bigyikes: I must say, that I don’t where shorts, but the ones who do always where nice dressy shorts like Docker shorts. I have never seen anyone in cutoffs or anything like that. I don’t know how the priests feel about it, but it does happen. Oh yeah, we are allowed to have bottled water at our seats. You know, the dry heat and all…

 

[SHEMP]

Karl Keating:

I wonder: Is there anyone on this thread who finds no problem whatsoever with people wearing (modest) shorts to Mass and yet who never himself would wear shorts to Mass? My guess is that just about all of the pro-shorts people are people who already wear shorts to Mass.

I have never worn shorts to Mass in a church since I was a child. I have an uncle who is a priest and said Mass for us on a vacation and I was in shorts as an adult.

I wouldn’t call myself pro-shorts but their are certain summer Masses at certain times that it seems appropriate to me. It doesn’t bother me or the majority of parishioners and I doubt that God is bothered. In these settings it seems respectful. In fact the atmosphere of a casual summer day Mass is often refreshing. I, myself, prefer to wear summer slacks with a casual shirt.

 

[SHEMP]

Charlemagne:

I’ll always change to long pants before going to Confession.

Interesting! I have been trying to go to confession more often. I had to get the kids to sleep for a nap, finish my chores, and then run off to the Church for Confession. I went in my shorts. I didn’t think much of it.

I thought I made a good confession. Now some of you are telling me that God might be upset that I came in shorts? Wow thats interesting.

 

[RichT]

Hey! How about the ragged tennis shoes on the Altar Servers, or even worse, the flip flops?

 

[IreneJ]

It’t better to go to mass wearing jeans then not to go at all.

 

[Fred]

When I was an altarboy I couldn’t have gone out of my house wearing jeans or sneakers to serve Mass, even though I wore a surplice and cassock. Either my mom would have stopped me or the priest would have.

That said, I don’t think it is improper to wear jeans or ,dungarees as we call them, to weekday Mass. People who go to weekday Mass are often on their way to work or school and can’t dress up. However you can always look clean and neat. Shorts I feel are inappropriate. You can’t get into a mosque with shorts on or into St. Peters in Rome.

I’ve been to Mass in the sweltering heat and humidity in Singapore and Bangkok and was amazed at how well the people dressed. It is shocking to see how some people dress at Sunday Mass in the U.S. So many people dress in fashions that offend our Lord. I try to make it a point to always wear a tie to Mass, but yes, on some occasions I haven’t been able to.

 

[kevinfraser]

bengal_fan:

pharasaical restrictions, no.

I don’t know if you are Catholic, but if you have read the papal instruction on what constitutes modest dress that I posted previously, you will probably not want to refer to any Pope as a pharisee.

bengal_fan:

shorts are not an issue

According to what authority?

bengal_fan:

and I feel

My point precisely. This is the protestant viewpoint. Christ does not require sacrifice of us, but only obedience. Protestantism discourages obedience and requires only a majority vote. Do you not see how I as a Catholic could so easily talk myself into protestantism this way?

bengal_fan:

is not going to cause anyone to sin unless they are bitter people who would be looking for something else to get upset about anyway.

You are announcing that others cannot sin under preventable circumstances that a Vicar of Christ has warned will cause. I don’t think that’s what you meant to do. What about causing near occasions of sin of the eyes by a choice of immodest clothing anywhere at all, let alone before the Most Holy Eucharist.

bengal_fan:

this argument sounds absurd to us now.

You’ve made it clear that this argument sounds absurd to you, but haven’t you just taken upon yourself to represent the opinion of everyone else? Or perhaps to influence anyone sitting on the fence? And haven’t you by implication directly opposed a Pope by announcing that that the issue of modesty of dress is best decided by consensus, and if that particular Pope’s instruction on modesty doesn’t fit this popular opinion, then that Pope and the teaching of Christ he proclaims is to be ignored by those like you who don’t want to listen?

As part of our regular examination of conscience, must not we all ask ourselves if we have spoken or acted against the duly exercised teaching authority of any of the Popes, the Vicars of Christ, in matters of faith and morals? And please don’t distract yourself from what I’m saying by deciding that I consider myself superior to you. I don’t, because I sin like this, too. We’re all in the same boat.

I’m sad to say that opposition to the Popes is one of the oldest of all U.S. traditions. Is it one you want to preserve and promote? It is the reason Catholic churches in Maryland were burned to the ground en masse in the years before the American revolution? I’m no historian, but I’ve wondered if the state of Maryland is named for our Blessed Virgin Mother. Perhaps as a consecration and cry to her for protection? If it was, it surely wasn’t Puritans who were asking her intercession. Can an historian please correct me and comment on this?

By brother or sister in Christ, most likely without even realizing it, as a second nature, you have demonstrated the spirit of protest that has fueled all opposition to Catholic teaching. Your attitude is precisely why Pope Pius IX was ignored in 1928 by the U.S.A. including the Catholic press of the day.

I’m sure that’s not what you meant to do, and I don’t wish to give offense, but consider what you have been taught, both implicitly and explicitly, who has taught it to you, and what you have accepted as truth. Remember Truth cannot contradict Truth because Truth is only Christ.

So if we are right about what is acceptable modesty of dress in God’s eyes and Pope Pius IX is wrong because of the passing of some decades and the changing of popular fashions towards immodesty, then it means we are saying: how much more must Christ be wrong after 200 decades. Shall we also say any Magisterial teaching on matters of faith and morals can go “out of style” at the whim of the fashion industry, or by simple popular acclaim?

“Seek ye first the things of God”

Please remember this is no accusation, I am trying to show you how Satan has stolen into all of our minds for so very long a time.

Go with God, and may Mary and our Holy Angels Guard all our precious eternal souls!

 

[newsjag]

My opinion on this is that for Sunday mass, I need to dress up and make myself look presentable to the Lord. I know He does not judge me on this, but I feel once I’m fixin to get ready, my mind begins to prepare itself for the Mass and the amazing things that will happen.

It is very important to examine the time you allow for yourself to prepare for Mass. You need to be in the correct state of mind to accept the messages you will hear.

During weekly mass, I usually wear shorts because I am walking back from class or from my room. It is also very warm down here and I wouldnt be able to focus if I was worrying about my discomfort.

 

[DrCat]

I thought I had already answered this yesterday, but apparently turned off my computer before actually posting.

In my opinion, jeans are all right for daily Mass, but shorts? sorry, but I can’t see it (and I don’t care if your’re a man or a woman).

I live on a tropical island with high humidity and high temperatures. Last time I was in the States in the Summer, the people were complaining about 35% humidity - to me, that would almost be drought conditions. Humidity right now is in the upper 80%s, and it hasn’t rained in days. Temperature is in the upper 89s (and It is 11:00 pm. Under these conditions, if somebody walked into (an unairconditioned) church or chapel here, the priest would send that person home. If they showed up for confession or adoration in shorts, they would be sent home.

As for jeans. They wear them to both daily and Sunday Mass. Me, I dress up about the same as I would for work (decent shirt (long or short sleeve, depending on the heat) and slacks).

Just my :twocents: :twocents: (inflation is really getting to me).

John

 

[Tom]

My question is what constitutes “immodest”. The only reference I could find was for women’s dresses.
“in order that uniformity of understanding prevail in all institutions of religious women … we recall that a dress cannot be called decent which is cut deeper than two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat, which does not cover the arms at least to the elbows, and scarcely reaches a bit beyond the knees. Furthermore, dresses of transparent material are improper …”

So any blouse, shirt or dress which is not within two fingers of the pit of the throat is out.
Arms must be covered to at least the elbow.
No knees showing.
Is this the standard for women?
Men have no standard?

the following injunctions of this Sacred Congregation, confirmed by His Holiness in audience this day:
a) In all schools, academies, recreation centers, Sunday schools, and laboratories directed by female religious, not to be admitted from now on are those girls who do not observe in their attire the rules of modesty and Christian decency.
b) To this end, the superiors themselves will be obliged to exercise a close supervision and exclude peremptorily from the schools and projects of their institutions those pupils who do not conform to these prescriptions.
c) They must not be influenced in this by any human respect, either for material considerations or by reason of the social prestige and of the families of their pupils, even though the student body should diminish in number.
d) Furthermore, the Sisters, in fulfillment of their educational pursuits, must endeavor to inculcate sweetly and strongly in their pupils the love and relish for holy modesty, the sign and guardian of purity and delicate adornment of womankind.

 

[John_Higgins]

Tom:

Is this the standard for women?

No, this is the standard for religious women.

John

 

[misericordie]

Meggie:

Before you keel over from my question let me state I wear a long skirt to Sunday Mass when my parents go to church.

I am 19 years old and by my own choice (and much to my parent’s dislike) I attend Daily Mass. I don’t own a car so I have to walk the 2 1/2 miles. My jeans are very, very dark blue (though the knees are somewhat warn ) They are not too tight or too loose. I wore jeans to Daily Mass all through the winter and now that its summer I think that it would be better than wearing shorts, right?

I personally see nothing wrong with that, and the dress in not tempting to us guys, as long as the jeans are not tight, and it is even more modest to where a long blouse or shirt which is long and worn to cover much of the jeans.   The most respectful and traditional women's clothing for Mass is a skirt a little below the knee, and no tank tops, sandals etc.

It is so great you go to daily Mass, wow! that is sooo impresive that at 19 you take your catholic Faith so seriously. I highly admire that. Keep on seeking the only one who can give total happiness, God. Pray much too, to the Blessed Mother.
Sincerely, misericordie

 

[kevinfraser]

Tom:

I don’t deny the authority of the Pope or cardinals, what is the teaching?

I found this article, written by a much wiser and more learned person (a lady).

kensmen.com/catholic/modesty.html
Read especially the reference to Deuteronomy 22:5 and following.

Tom:

It doesn’t say what you are implying.

I’m not trying to impose my opinion by implication. I’m trying to point out how the Church has taught that we are to discern what is modest dress in the eyes of God: for attending Mass or for any other purpose. My opinion about what’s modest is unimportant if it opposes Church teaching. For me, that’s a hard pill to swallow. What’s important for me as a Catholic must be seeking and learning what the Church has taught since Jesus gave it to his Shepherds and Doctors to teach.

Tom:

Wearing jeans or shorts are ‘scandal’?
Please, just let me know what ‘proper’ is, a full suit? I’m not even trying to find the minimum allowable, just what is proper in your mind?

Scandal is bad example, remember. You want my opinion on ‘proper’? Here you go:

When I am graced to physically receive as my real and spiritual food and drink the body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ, every bit as real as when He walked on earth as one of us despite the accidents of bread and wine, do I not become a living vessel to contain Him for at least a period of some minutes before the species are completely dissolved and absorbed into my own body?

If I read what the 2002 GIRM says in paragraphs 327 and 328:
usccb.org/liturgy/current/chapter6.htm )

I ask myself:
So what’s the connection between this and choosing to honor and revere the Holy Eucharist by wearing a neat and clean pair of conservatively cut “dressy jeans” for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? “Dressy jeans?” Just think about that for a minute.

I then ask myself:
When I receive Holy Communion, is the Eucharistic Jesus not being physically transferred from one vessel to another?

I can’t change the materials which compose my body. I can’t have my digestive tract lined with precious metal, but is there anything other way I can honor Him?

The Three Kings in their finery brought Him the most valuable things they had. The widow gave her last coins to the poor. Can’t I at least wear a tie and a jacket, as a discipline to remind myself of His infinite value?

“Well that’s your opinion, but mine is different.” It isn’t about opinion, but obedience and diligent application of principle.

This thread isn’t about convenience and comfort being deemed to be acceptable in God’s eyes at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass because we decide “common sense” trumps discomfort, inconvenience or style. It’s about finding a loophole and justifying by popular acclaim a lowering of reverence before the Holy Eucharist and everywhere else.

“Externals don’t matter” = cop-out.

In many readers minds, I have just revealed myself as one of “those” people who “need to chill out” or are “fanatics” or are “sweating the small stuff” or “missing the big picture.” I may now even be very unpopular with certain readers, who may even make demands of Catholic Answers to stop me.

I also need to point out that the first link in this post appears to be from someone who opposes the Second Vatican Council. But that’s not to say that she doesn’t discern the unchanging teaching of the Church, only that she doesn’t submit to the current Authority of the Church. Tertullian died a heretic. God can write straight with crooked lines. She writes and observes of the same Catholic Church teaching as those who do not deny the current authority of the Church because “the recommendations of the Second Vatican Council were poorly implemented” as Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger said on EWTN.

Q: Shorts/jeans or Mass? A: Mass.
Q: Dress/tie or jeans? A: Dress/tie.

Choosing jeans isn’t doing your best.

 

[system]

kevinfraser:

So what’s the connection between this and choosing to honor and revere the Holy Eucharist by wearing a neat and clean pair of conservatively cut “dressy jeans” for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? “Dressy jeans?” Just think about that for a minute.

What’s to think about? Neat, clean, conservatively cut are the key words. You’re apparently upset by the word “jeans”. By a mere fabric, and a handful of rivets.

Can’t I at least wear a tie and a jacket, as a discipline to remind myself of His infinite value?

Why do you need a reminder? Either you believe it, or you don’t.

“Well that’s your opinion, but mine is different.” It isn’t about opinion, but obedience and diligent application of principle.

In order to justify your opinion as the “correct” one. Don’t you see? Who is to say that your standard of dress is correct interpretation? What if someone came along saying “you heathen, a mere suit and tie? It’s a tuxedo (flowing robe, sackcloth, spacesuit, etc.) or nothing.”

In many readers minds, I have just revealed myself as one of “those” people who “need to chill out” or are “fanatics” or are “sweating the small stuff” or “missing the big picture.” I may now even be very unpopular with certain readers, who may even make demands of Catholic Answers to stop me.

Hiding your opinion behind the “poor persecuted me” card won’t earn points.

 

[kevinfraser]

IreneJ:

It’t better to go to mass wearing jeans then not to go at all.

Dear Irene, if you are going to Mass and you have a pair of jeans and a modest, pretty dress, which is a better choice to go before the Lord wearing? Of course, you know the right answer!

In receiving Holy Communion, we ourselves become vessels to contain the Lord–should we not dress as formally as we can for the honor some martyrs gave their lives to protect? Not to mention honoring His infinite sacrifice for us in his Passion and Death?

This statement reads like a threat. Irene, against whom?

If I carry out the implied threat in this statement–not going to Mass because I can’t choose jeans over a modest dress/jacket/tie…–what have I accomplished? Who will have “learned their lesson” because I chose refusing to dress up over the sublime grace of receiving Holy Communion?

Do you see how this statement is childish reasoning? What possible use can anyone have for a statement like this, really?

You propose to take Holy Communion: acccepting the Lord Jesus physically into your very person. How pleasing do you want the outward manifestation of your intentions which everyone can planly see, to be in His sight? Certainly it’s not the modest dress, but your intention and action to do something special for Jesus, no matter how small it may seem to you that is what is so pleasing to God. Think of the meaning of the story of the Little Drummer Boy.

Please never forget the real, true, total, divine and physical presence of our Lord in the Holy Eucharist. Don’t you want to kick it up a notch just because Jesus is Lord?

Doesn’t this all boil down to reverence for the Eucharist? Show him and everyone else how much reverence you truly have by your dress and comportment. Why not seek to become more ‘perfect in all things like your Father in Heaven,’ as Jesus commanded us?

May the Lord bless you and Mary keep you, Irene!