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mdbaker46
Guest
Can. 21 In a case of doubt, the revocation of a pre-existing law is not presumed, but later laws must be related to the earlier ones and, insofar as possible, must be harmonized with them.
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roselily
Guest
I saw women wearing veil -they might be from Arabic original, they walking in street with their husband and children, wearing veil from head to cover all body, and I like it very much, and do not wonder why they are so much admired.
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gospel_life
Guest
But in this case there is no doubt. The entire 1917 Code was specifically abrogated. Some amateurs on some of the traditionalist websites try to construe there being doubt but canon lawyers have made it clear that such doubt is not there. If such things were still in effect we would likewise still have to have men and women seated separately at Mass.
And no, Scripture does not dictate canon law. Some canons are grounded in scripture, and a canon cannot be in opposition to scripture, but not every command in scripture was meant for eternity; some were simply the custom of the times. If all were to be followed we would also be following the entire book of Leviticus.
Again, it is an honorable custom with much to recommend it. It is not required however.
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ncjohn
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But in this case there is no doubt. The entire 1917 Code was specifically abrogated. Some amateurs on some of the traditionalist websites try to construe there being doubt but canon lawyers have made it clear that such doubt is not there. If such things were still in effect we would likewise still have to have men and women seated separately at Mass.
And no, Scripture does not dictate canon law. Some canons are grounded in scripture, and a canon cannot be in opposition to scripture, but not every command in scripture was meant for eternity; some were simply the custom of the times. If all were to be followed we would also be following the entire book of Leviticus.
Again, it is an honorable custom with much to recommend it. It is not required however.
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
I saw a photo on one of the T.C. threads & it sure looked like a gender-segregated Mass from what I could see.Wonder where that was?
I like wearing a head covering but come on…Wear one or don’t.It’s your own business.
I like wearing a head covering but come on…Wear one or don’t.It’s your own business.
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lizaanne
Guest
Wow - if that’s the case we have a whole lot of showing off women at my parish!!
Trust me, this is not about showing off. For many women (including me at times) it is harder to cover their head than to just go without. There are times when I’m away from the security and comfort of my own parish where this is a very common practice, that I feel very uncomfortable covering my head. But ---- and get ready for the key point ---- I don’t do it for me.
My discomfort is secondary to the why part of it all.Your perception of what you THINK you are seeing does not make it true.
Cannon Law has nothing to do with this. I will never understand why that ever even enters into the discussion.
~Liza
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samcarter14
Guest
Whenever this topic comes up, and people point out that Mary wore a veil, I have wanted to ask if she wore a lacy mantilla. Probably not.
The icons of Mary were painted long after the blessed Theotokos was assumed into heaven. I’m sure they were painted with the simple, non-lacy veils that we see in her pictures and icons with a thought to the New Testament directive that women cover their heads when they pray. Forgive me for not having the chapter and verse handy right now.
My point is, why a lacy veil? Why not simply wear a plain kerchief, or a simple headcovering of plain cloth? I think the mantillas draw more attention to themselves than a simple headcovering would, and become a point of vanity in and of themselves, just as the fancy hats some ladies used to wear to church (and some still do, in certain areas).
I personally do not cover my head. I think it’s a lovely tradition, and I have relatives who do. But if those who do claim it is to show modesty and humility before Christ, then I would ask them why they seek out the “pretty” veils, rather than seek out something humbler.
The icons of Mary were painted long after the blessed Theotokos was assumed into heaven. I’m sure they were painted with the simple, non-lacy veils that we see in her pictures and icons with a thought to the New Testament directive that women cover their heads when they pray. Forgive me for not having the chapter and verse handy right now.
My point is, why a lacy veil? Why not simply wear a plain kerchief, or a simple headcovering of plain cloth? I think the mantillas draw more attention to themselves than a simple headcovering would, and become a point of vanity in and of themselves, just as the fancy hats some ladies used to wear to church (and some still do, in certain areas).
I personally do not cover my head. I think it’s a lovely tradition, and I have relatives who do. But if those who do claim it is to show modesty and humility before Christ, then I would ask them why they seek out the “pretty” veils, rather than seek out something humbler.
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Cracker_Mom
Guest
I think we should go back to pinning a Kleenex on our heads which is what my mama used to do when we’d forget to bring a proper headcovering to church years ago.Whenever this topic comes up, and people point out that Mary wore a veil, I have wanted to ask if she wore a lacy mantilla. Probably not.
The icons of Mary were painted long after the blessed Theotokos was assumed into heaven. I’m sure they were painted with the simple, non-lacy veils that we see in her pictures and icons with a thought to the New Testament directive that women cover their heads when they pray. Forgive me for not having the chapter and verse handy right now.
My point is, why a lacy veil? Why not simply wear a plain kerchief, or a simple headcovering of plain cloth? I think the mantillas draw more attention to themselves than a simple headcovering would, and become a point of vanity in and of themselves, just as the fancy hats some ladies used to wear to church (and some still do, in certain areas).
I personally do not cover my head. I think it’s a lovely tradition, and I have relatives who do. But if those who do claim it is to show modesty and humility before Christ, then I would ask them why they seek out the “pretty” veils, rather than seek out something humbler.
No one could confuse that with vanity…
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dominicandinah
Guest
Good one!! IMHO, white lace belongs on bridal gowns and first communion dresses and black lace belongs on a flamenco dancer’s costume and on lingerie! Sorry if I’ve offended some of you lacy-ladies! A hat looks more dignified if you must cover your head; wear it with a nice dress or suit. It really brings back the tradition of “dressing up” to meet the Lord instead of a lace doily or mantilla worn with a denim jumper! I know someone will feel the need to comment about humbleness and vanity, but that’s taking scrupulosity to a new level…I think we should go back to pinning a Kleenex on our heads which is what my mama used to do when we’d forget to bring a proper headcovering to church years ago.
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lizaanne
Guest
This is totally irrelevant. Many women wear hats or scarves.
I’ve tried this - they slide off my head and are a distraction. Lace sort of grips your hair and does not side.
Not at my parish - actually lace is the norm.
Well then, that is a problem with the woman who is covering her head to deal with. Not a judgement or assumption for an observer to make.
Probably for the same reason I wish to look “pretty” for my husband. I don’t wish to show up to Mass, in the presence of Christ, with a slippery scarf or a hot hat on my head that is more trouble than it needs to be.
There is nothing immodest about wanting to look nice. Since when is there a problem with a woman wanting to look pretty??? 
The “looking pretty” is not the reason or motivation for covering my head. If it were I would have bigger issues to deal with.~Liza
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Cracker_Mom
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I say we have a contest for the most humble, head-covered poster with the greatest humility.
First prize is a box of plain white kleenex, 2 bobby pins, & a date with one of the guys in the Traditional Catholic forums who rants about women not knowing their “place” at Mass.
First prize is a box of plain white kleenex, 2 bobby pins, & a date with one of the guys in the Traditional Catholic forums who rants about women not knowing their “place” at Mass.
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ElizabethPH
Guest
I enjoyed that as well.The Theological Significance of Veils and Consequences of Unveiling
The latest homily from Audio Sancto.
Not an apologetic, and discusses veiling generally for a good deal other than women in the first half. Gives you a good, if incomplete and broad idea of some of the spirituality of it.
I have contributed to veil threads in the past and just want to say that 3 years ago I started wearing a veil on my return to the church. I grew up wearing a hanky…scarf…veil or hat. But I always wore a cover didn’t have to be a veil. Now days I mostly wear a simple black mantilla. I also thought that perhaps it would catch on. But still it is the same ladies (me and two others) that I see with a veil. I have had comments through these years always positive…and sometimes along the lines of ‘I’ve thought of starting to wear a veil.’ But they never do. It’s always just the three of us. And one of them goes to another Mass time. Not too encouraging…but I don’t let that stop me.
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dominicandinah
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ROFLOL!!!I say we have a contest for the most humble, head-covered poster with the greatest humility.
First prize is a box of plain white kleenex, 2 bobby pins, & a date with one of the guys in the Traditional Catholic forums who rants about women not knowing their “place” at Mass.
Sign me up!! I’ll pass the date on to one of my nieces!!
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deb1
Guest
First, I don’t wear a veil so I don’t have a horse in the race, so to speak.
There is not a mismatch between wanting to look pretty and feminine and being modest and traditional. I can only guess that you come to this conclusion from being exposed to one too many dumpy woman who says that she is dressing in unattractive clothing due to her desire to be modest. A person can be modest and still look fashionable and want to look attractive.
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mdbaker46
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mdbaker46
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Its a matter with scriptures, if you want to received full blessing from the holy spirit, an it has to do with moral law of the canon, and a woman wears the veil on her heart accepts the place that god gives to woman in the church, the family, and society. Woman who wear the veil on their hearts are imitating the virgin mary in her humility, submissiveness, and obedience. The moral law requires all woman to wear the veil on their hearts.
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Cracker_Mom
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You win first place in the veil contest.The most humble veil would be the invisible kind.
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JulianN
Guest
The old Code of Canon Law – which is now abrogated. Mary wore a veil because that was the common head covering for women in her time. It was humble precisely because it was what women wore every day – in other words, nobody would notice it or comment.
As Western fashion changed, women in the United States followed the canonical rule for a head covering by wearing a hat. Again, it was a fairly typical daily apparel (even if one wore one’s dressiest hat on Sunday).
The old Code has been abrogated. There is no requirement for women to cover their heads in church. Part of this might be explained because it is no longer common for women to wear a hat as part of day-to-day apparel. A woman without a head covering actually blends in more, draws less attention to herself.
However, for a woman who wishes to follow tradition – in the U.S., that tradition was wearing a hat. Wearing a mantilla, or ‘veil’, did not become popular until the 1960s, when Jackie Kennedy made mantillas very fashionable and popular for Catholic women going to Mass.
I’ve noticed how many of the women who post about wearing a veil mention the looks and comments they sometimes get. That seems to contradict the very purpose of the head covering.
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