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joeybaggz
Guest
If there is a “current storm” in the church, is it more a product of the intense media focus/circus due to today’s internet and “instant news” technology and the widespread proliferation of hysteria on medium of mass communication (such as the internet and CAF)? A pope expresses an opinion of extending mercy to people in “irregular” relationships, and the trad/cats get hysterical as to how the papacy is in severe crisis. Revelations are made about 1 to 2% of the clergy that engaged in scandalous relationships with others, and the entire clergy is made up of “abusers”? People are allowed to stand and receive the actual presence of Christ in their hand as one would approach a friend (as Christ called all of us), and the laity has no reverence or respect according to the “tongue cluckers”?
If there is a crisis of membership/mass attendance and involvement by the laity, isn’t it a fault of the laity because of the allure of pop culture and it’s siren song of personal irresponsibility and the willingness to abdicate personal moral responsibility? Of course, the pathetic teaching by the clergy probably does have a lot to do with the mass migration from the pews.
Just a couple questions? And relax people, the church has seen this all before and it is still here.
If there is a crisis of membership/mass attendance and involvement by the laity, isn’t it a fault of the laity because of the allure of pop culture and it’s siren song of personal irresponsibility and the willingness to abdicate personal moral responsibility? Of course, the pathetic teaching by the clergy probably does have a lot to do with the mass migration from the pews.
Just a couple questions? And relax people, the church has seen this all before and it is still here.
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joeybaggz
Guest
Couldn’t agree more. The problem with people today, at least in Western society, is that few are willing to invest time and energy to learn. People seem to want everything given to them. How many Catholics who do go to Mass on Sunday, really understand their religion? How many consider their religion as a living, breathing entity which requires effort and how many are simply marking off a check in an attendance book that exists only in their own mind? We lose so many baptized Catholics as they grow into adults because the teaching of the religion is pathetic at best in most places. This is the fault of the clergy and those who design education programs. This is the only real issue I have with the clergy, and it is one that can be rectified a bit more easily given the understanding of the nature of the problem.
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joeybaggz
Guest
CJ, hit the edit button and add a “p”. 
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Dca2018
Guest
If only McCarrick had given up being a rapist
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pnewton
Guest
After looking over the article, I still do not know what storm he is speaking of. Perhaps this is intentional. Is it Cardinal Pell in Australia? Cardinal McCarrick in the US? The proposed change (insert change here) of Pope Francis? Is it the willingness of people now to challenge the Pope today? Is it the shortage of priests? Is it modernism? Secularism? Nationalism? Consumerism? The information age?
Is it Marty Haugen?
Is it Marty Haugen?
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Delphinus
Guest
I’ve been protestant and non-christian long enough in my life to say that there is UNENDING WISDOM in John 6:68 " Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life."
I don’t think it was any accident that this was said in response to the scandal Jesus caused teaching the Eucharist. The church is certainly in a hard time right now. So what? It’s seen far worse. It’s also seen far better. So what? The Church is ALL OF US. So long as we remain loyal to Christ and to one another in love it doesn’t matter what scandal rocks the leadership, WE will NEVER be shaken! Our true head is Christ, and NOTHING will separate us from him and He will not let even the powers of HELL be victorious! We will weather this storm just as we have weathered others because, unlike all institutions on Earth, our faith is in the perfect and spotless Jesus Christ. Not the sinful men (just as all of us are sinful!) who lead.
I don’t think it was any accident that this was said in response to the scandal Jesus caused teaching the Eucharist. The church is certainly in a hard time right now. So what? It’s seen far worse. It’s also seen far better. So what? The Church is ALL OF US. So long as we remain loyal to Christ and to one another in love it doesn’t matter what scandal rocks the leadership, WE will NEVER be shaken! Our true head is Christ, and NOTHING will separate us from him and He will not let even the powers of HELL be victorious! We will weather this storm just as we have weathered others because, unlike all institutions on Earth, our faith is in the perfect and spotless Jesus Christ. Not the sinful men (just as all of us are sinful!) who lead.
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hwriggles4
Guest
Since 2002, it seems that several media outlets (newspapers, television, cable, internet) always look for stories to discredit the Catholic Church. In most large cities, if a day care worker is accused of indecency with a child, it is on page 25 in Tuesday’s paper. Now if a Catholic priest has an accusation, it makes page 1 on Sunday.
I read the Pennsylvania articles from good Catholic sources, and at least 1/3 are dead, and the majority of these incidents happened prior to 2002. Yes, it’s too many (and two other dioceses in Pennsylvania had other cases and weren’t included in the report) , but it’s still a small percentage (i.e. less an 6%) of priests. Minneapolis - St. Paul had a similar incident a few years ago - and many of the cases happened prior to 2002. Why don’t we hear about the 94% of the good priests? Why does the media only name the bad ones?
Several dioceses have done their share of cleaning outs, and I am familiar with two east coast dioceses that when a new bishop arrived, there were quite a few phone calls from men wanting to enter the seminary (and these two dioceses had noticeable priest shortages). A neighboring diocese of mine (southern United States) had a similar experience.
I do think some religious orders that have had these problems should be suppressed (I visited an order in the late 80s at a school I attended and something didn’t feel right - this order has struggled for years with recruitment), and quite a few seminaries that had these problems have either closed (primarily in the 70s and 80s, mostly because dioceses stopped sending seminarians to these places) or been reformed. A few seminaries that I am familiar with don’t even allow men to use computers in their rooms in order to avoid certain temptations. It’s important to have healthy relationships with both sexes, but keep your guard up - a good priest tells me that he never will go to lunch alone with a woman, even if it’s for spiritual direction or parish-type business.
Sadly, many of us thought this was nipped in the bud, and it doesn’t seem like it has. I am wondering how much say a certain leader had in his diocese when selecting seminarians - did he turn down some good ones? I am also worried about a few other dioceses that seem to have a lukewarm bishop currently at the helm. The Church cannot return to the turbulent 1960s, 1970s, 1980s. Let’s pray for our bishops that they have their mitre on straight.
I read the Pennsylvania articles from good Catholic sources, and at least 1/3 are dead, and the majority of these incidents happened prior to 2002. Yes, it’s too many (and two other dioceses in Pennsylvania had other cases and weren’t included in the report) , but it’s still a small percentage (i.e. less an 6%) of priests. Minneapolis - St. Paul had a similar incident a few years ago - and many of the cases happened prior to 2002. Why don’t we hear about the 94% of the good priests? Why does the media only name the bad ones?
Several dioceses have done their share of cleaning outs, and I am familiar with two east coast dioceses that when a new bishop arrived, there were quite a few phone calls from men wanting to enter the seminary (and these two dioceses had noticeable priest shortages). A neighboring diocese of mine (southern United States) had a similar experience.
I do think some religious orders that have had these problems should be suppressed (I visited an order in the late 80s at a school I attended and something didn’t feel right - this order has struggled for years with recruitment), and quite a few seminaries that had these problems have either closed (primarily in the 70s and 80s, mostly because dioceses stopped sending seminarians to these places) or been reformed. A few seminaries that I am familiar with don’t even allow men to use computers in their rooms in order to avoid certain temptations. It’s important to have healthy relationships with both sexes, but keep your guard up - a good priest tells me that he never will go to lunch alone with a woman, even if it’s for spiritual direction or parish-type business.
Sadly, many of us thought this was nipped in the bud, and it doesn’t seem like it has. I am wondering how much say a certain leader had in his diocese when selecting seminarians - did he turn down some good ones? I am also worried about a few other dioceses that seem to have a lukewarm bishop currently at the helm. The Church cannot return to the turbulent 1960s, 1970s, 1980s. Let’s pray for our bishops that they have their mitre on straight.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
The sun is shining where I am at. If you can’t see the sun where you are, maybe you need to focus harder on looking for Jesus, and praying to Him.
Getting a litle tired of every situation that comes up being presented as a crisis, especially when the same “crisis” has come up multiple times in the past 20 years and is, at least in the USA, being very much addressed.
Getting a litle tired of every situation that comes up being presented as a crisis, especially when the same “crisis” has come up multiple times in the past 20 years and is, at least in the USA, being very much addressed.
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The painting below by Turner has been seen as depicting Peter and the disciples in a storm , and as a lesson that the Church will always be in one storm or another .
In the middle of the 1800s a hymn to Mary was written containing these words
“And the tempest-tost Church all her eyes are on Thee, They look to thy shining, sweet Star of the Sea!”
Written about the same time another hymn to Mary has us singing “Thrown on life’s surge we claim thy care,
Save us from peril and from woe” .
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
In the middle of the 1800s a hymn to Mary was written containing these words
“And the tempest-tost Church all her eyes are on Thee, They look to thy shining, sweet Star of the Sea!”
Written about the same time another hymn to Mary has us singing “Thrown on life’s surge we claim thy care,
Save us from peril and from woe” .
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
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Katherine438
Guest
Very well said … I totally agree.
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