Website about SSA - The 4TS and the Church

[ratio1]

I have heard of this non sexual nude situation as a method. Please give it some thought before dismissing it entirely. If after thinking about it you think it’s risky then that’s fine.

The theory goes like this I think
Now no one knows for sure the origin of SSA but for those where male identification is a factor this may be relevant. Usually in the “normal” sexual development a male develops his masculinity and therefore he will seek what he does not have ie a female partner hence part of the complementary design from God. Now if a person doesn’t develop his masculinity he will seek that masculinity in others as he finds masculinity mystifying. These individuals usually relate poorly to fellow males and may relate better to female friends. Because of this mystification process this perpetuates the SSA.
The GOAL of spending time with other males in a non sexual situation is DEMYSTIFICATION. The hope is that the individual can see that relationships with other males does not need to be sexual and can create a healthy male to male bond.

Anyway that’s the theory. I’ve seen that it works but I can see that it can be a problem for some.

( sorry haven’t had time to watch your video yet so if this is already mentioned then sorry.)

 

[Joe_73]

I have heard of this non sexual nude situation as a method. Please give it some thought before dismissing it entirely. If after thinking about it you think it’s risky then that’s fine.

The theory goes like this I think
Now no one knows for sure the origin of SSA but for those where male identification is a factor this may be relevant. Usually in the “normal” sexual development a male develops his masculinity and therefore he will seek what he does not have ie a female partner hence part of the complementary design from God. Now if a person doesn’t develop his masculinity he will seek that masculinity in others as he finds masculinity mystifying. These individuals usually relate poorly to fellow males and may relate better to female friends. Because of this mystification process this perpetuates the SSA.
The GOAL of spending time with other males in a non sexual situation is DEMYSTIFICATION. The hope is that the individual can see that relationships with other males does not need to be sexual and can create a healthy male to male bond.

Anyway that’s the theory. I’ve seen that it works but I can see that it can be a problem for some.

( sorry haven’t had time to watch your video yet so if this is already mentioned then sorry.)

This is pretty along the lines with Joseph Nicolosi’s “Reparative Therapy”. And I totally agree with both you and his book. It’s provided me invaluable insight on my own experience. It doesn’t talk much about nudity, but it does talk abouting connecting with men, particularily those who one is sexually drawn to in order to demistify them.

 

[ratio1]

Sorry just to add
Needless to say this must be done in a controlled situation. Ideallly with other Christian heterosexual males. I wouldn’t think doing it with other SSA individuals would be a good idea.

 

[Joe_73]

Sorry just to add
Needles so to say this must be done in a controlled situation. Ideallly with other Christian heterosexual males. I wouldn’t think doing it with other SSA individuals would be a good idea.

Generally speaking yes. I wouldn’t outlaw it entirely, but would use caution, the most dangerous scenario is two SSA people alone.

 

[ratio1]

And the other thing to be careful is obviously not to over emphasise it. If it is to be demystifying then it must be just a normal situation where males usually get nude anyway rather then deliberately set up such a situation. This may be hard in modern days. But cultures that are more comfortable with nudity would be easier.

 

[ratio1]

Generally speaking yes. I wouldn’t outlaw it entirely, but would use caution, the most dangerous scenario is two SSA people alone.

I suppose but it’s not very practical. The whole point is meant to be for SSA to develop bond with other “normal” males and maybe to observe how “normal” males behave in a nude non sexual situation. So having other SSA people amongst a group I suppose it’s ok as long as you focus on building relationships with the non SSA males. But then in such a situation it’s hard to ignore other SSA people in the group. I just don’t think it’s practical or a good idea if one is doing doing this as a first time. Now if SSA people have prior experience and are now comfortable with their masculinity and can be nude and nonsexual the having such experienced SSA people in the group would be fine. I wouldn’t think having 2 SSA strugglers in the same group with be advisable.
Hence I think the best situation is to have fellowship with maybe 3 other Christian heterosexual males who knows about SSA but doesn’t make it a big deal who are willing to bond with you as a friend not as a therapist who can just do what males typically do. Perhaps you 4 can play tennis or something and then just as an aside have a group shower afterwards etc. hence making it as normal as possible.

This is a point I’m trying to make in another thread. SSA people need so much help. Instead of talking about Sodom and Gomorrah can Catholics start to reach out and actually help all these people in need?

 

[Joe_73]

Joe_73:

Generally speaking yes. I wouldn’t outlaw it entirely, but would use caution, the most dangerous scenario is two SSA people alone.

I suppose but it’s not very practical. The whole point is meant to be for SSA to develop bond with other “normal” males and maybe to observe how “normal” males behave in a nude non sexual situation. So having other SSA people amongst a group I suppose it’s ok as long as you focus on building relationships with the non SSA males. But then in such a situation it’s hard to ignore other SSA people in the group. I just don’t think it’s practical or a good idea if one is doing doing this as a first time. Now if SSA people have prior experience and are now comfortable with their masculinity and can be nude and nonsexual the having such experienced SSA people in the group would be fine. I wouldn’t think having 2 SSA strugglers in the same group with be advisable.
Hence I think the best situation is to have fellowship with maybe 3 other Christian heterosexual males who knows about SSA but doesn’t make it a big deal who are willing to bond with you as a friend not as a therapist who can just do what males typically do. Perhaps you 4 can play tennis or something and then just as an aside have a group shower afterwards etc. hence making it as normal as possible.

This is a point I’m trying to make in another thread. SSA people need so much help. Instead of talking about Sodom and Gomorrah can Catholics start to reach out and actually help all these people in need?

Interesting, that’s almost exactly the attitude of the website. I think way too much, and so I think I understand my situation and struggle with SSA fairly well, and so as it is I’m not as worried about all these details. I’m sure I’ll do fine once I start talking to people. Right now where I’m struggling is to open up when I’m struggling with stuff. It isn’t even usually about SSA, but The desperation of whatever is going on can cause me to fall back into old sins. When something difficult is going on, I tend to shut down from everyone, cause I am scared to talk about it. That’s my major problem. Then my SSA flairs back up.

By the way, where do you get your perspective on this? Do you know someone who struggles with this? I just find your understanding of the situation remarkable.

 

[ratio1]

It isn’t even usually about SSA, but The desperation of whatever is going on can cause me to fall back into old sins.

This illustrates my sincere belief (at the moment anyway, I could be proved wrong) that we are all broken in one way or another and we all need the Great Physician to heal us. Some of us are broken and seek to manifest it as too much overt masculinity (the alpha male) and they may look tough but are actually wounded deep down. Some manifests it as SSA seeking masculinity in others instead from themselves. And I could go on for any other human weaknesses. Unfortunately for you and SSA is that society (including members of this forum) focus on the sins of SSA and not the other sins like being proud in a forum and not listening to others with compassion. But at the end of the day we are all sinners.
However the advantage men have is that we have a great model in what it means to be masculine in Jesus. In times of difficulty I guess one has to go back to the basics of what Jesus has done for us and how the great saints have endure difficulties etc etc.

 

[ratio1]

By the way, where do you get your perspective on this? Do you know someone who struggles with this? I just find your understanding of the situation remarkable.

It’s easy to pick who understands the issue and who doesn’t understand, isn’t it?
I have yet to meet a person who understands the issue who is not SSA and who doesn’t know someone who struggles with SSA.
This is a VERY VERY VERY sad situation in our church. Something for Catholics to reflect on.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

I want to look at the site in more detail, but on first perusal, it looks like one man’s website, and this guy has a number of friends who cooperate with him on the project. The website is grammatically atrocious – if you introduce yourself to this fellow, Joe, please recommend that he find a copy editor. (I might even be able to help). The lack of professionalism in the writing is something I would lay into in an English student, and it doesn’t come across well in such a visually beautiful website.

As for nudity … I certainly think that being in locker room situations with other guys and being comfortable is a great thing. Nakedness is no big deal, and the idea that SSA guys should not be around other naked guys is absolutely emasculating and absurd.

However, I do not see any good purpose to be served to a bunch of guys who are attracted to each other getting naked together. Is that the idea? If so, it doesn’t make sense to me.

That said, I like this guy’s approach, in general.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

The GOAL of spending time with other males in a non sexual situation is DEMYSTIFICATION. The hope is that the individual can see that relationships with other males does not need to be sexual and can create a healthy male to male bond.

Yes, this seems like a very helpful interpretation of an experience like my own. It is precisely why I need straight men in my life who affirm me and treat me like “one of the guys”.

 

[theCardinalbird]

The desperation of whatever is going on can cause me to fall back into old sins. When something difficult is going on, I tend to shut down from everyone, cause I am scared to talk about it. That’s my major problem. Then my SSA flairs back up.

That happens to me too. When i am so stressed i most likely fall into sins that i need to stop. I dont talk about my SSA with the people in my life because i get worried they will see me suffering where they would want me to leave the Church because of it (this is all my perception of how they would feel). So i bottle it up, i sometimes say stuff on CAF, but not to a lot of people i see everyday. So keeping it bottled up is not something good, causes many heartaches too. Which is why it is good to talk about it, even though its hard.

Praying for you Joe

 

[Joe_73]

Joe_73:

By the way, where do you get your perspective on this? Do you know someone who struggles with this? I just find your understanding of the situation remarkable.

It’s easy to pick who understands the issue and who doesn’t understand, isn’t it?
I have yet to meet a person who understands the issue who is not SSA and who doesn’t know someone who struggles with SSA.
This is a VERY VERY VERY sad situation in our church. Something for Catholics to reflect on.

Is this something you have struggled with, or did you just make it your business to understand? I’m extemely curious. It’s a very freeing idea to know that I could be understood by a non struggler. Sometimes I feel very odd, and other times just see myself as understandably lonely. Probably dwelling on it too much. But the nagging feeling that I’m somehow different than most other men and we cannot possibly relate in some way with our incompatable experiences is awful to deal with. Hard to say how true it is though. Probably not too true. Of course only God is gonna be able to know us 100%, no matter our experiences.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Is this something you have struggled with, or did you just make it your business to understand? I’m extemely curious. It’s a very freeing idea to know that I could be understood by a non struggler. Sometimes I feel very odd, and other times just see myself as understandably lonely. Probably dwelling on it too much. But the nagging feeling that I’m somehow different than most other men and we cannot possibly relate in some way with our incompatable experiences is awful to deal with.

This is a beautiful, vulnerable post. I wish I could be the man to step up and understand, Joe, but yeah – I’m a fellow struggler. I hope you find straight men who understand and sympathize. I have, and it is a huge blessing.

 

[ratio1]

Are you aware of this?

Men's Community for the 21st Century - ManKind Project

I hesitated whether I should mention this here as it is not Catholic. and this group also seem to have some minor odd ideas on occasions but if you have strong faith there should be nothing to worry about. Just take what is good.

This is for ALL men. [not just for SSA, in fact probably the majority are straight]
but the experience can be really transforming and unlikely going to get this anywhere else. I have a feeling that you may benefit from this immensely (but I could be wrong)

 

[ratio1]

I think way too much, and so I think I understand my situation and struggle with SSA fairly well,

I think your situation is not uncommon. you seem to be the thinking type. I’m guessing here, but perhaps sometimes you THINK and you think you’ve DONE it already. [be honest here…]
The trick is to START DOING and STOP ONLY THINKING.
Maculinity places a lot of emphasis on DOING. that’s why I think MKP may help you.

don’t get me wrong, I’m not against thinking, and it’s great you’ve got a great intellect. but a lot of the time to be a man is about DOING.

 

[Joe_73]

I don’t know about that. But there’s some kind of men’s talk being put on by a local church this month. I should to go to that.