Wedding ceremony question

[Incomplete]

It does not matter if you register at another parish (which you are allowed to do) that does not mean you “join” that parish.
Your parish is always the one you are geographically located in and in which you have the right to be married (assuming no impediments and also that pre-requisites are in order).
I am not saying another priest will not marry you but I am saying that they can and often do refuse and you can have no complaint if they refuse because you have no rights at another parish.

Canon Law:

Can. 1115 Marriages are to be celebrated in the parish in which either of the contracting parties has a domicile or a quasi-domicile or a month’s residence or, if there is question of vagi, in the parish in which they are actually residing. With the permission of the proper Ordinary or the proper parish priest, marriages may be celebrated elsewhere.

Maybe we define “join” differently. The parish I am registered at is the one that has all the information about me and the one who asks me to take care of them with my time and financially. We can, I suppose, get technical about how to define “join”, but I don’t think that will help the OP to answer the question. My point was that she can seek out a Catholic church in her area where she would like to worship. She can, as you said, register there.

What confuses me is your line that another priest can and often does refuse to marry you if you are not in their geographical parish. I have never heard of a priest refusing to marry someone who was registered at their parish solely because it wasn’t the person’s geographical parish. Do you have anything to back this up?

 

[thistle]

Maybe we define “join” differently. The parish I am registered at is the one that has all the information about me and the one who asks me to take care of them with my time and financially. We can, I suppose, get technical about how to define “join”, but I don’t think that will help the OP to answer the question. My point was that she can seek out a Catholic church in her area where she would like to worship. She can, as you said, register there.

What confuses me is your line that another priest can and often does refuse to marry you if you are not in their geographical parish. I have never heard of a priest refusing to marry someone who was registered at their parish solely because it wasn’t the person’s geographical parish. Do you have anything to back this up?

Your parish is the one in which you reside. Registering with another parish does not make it your parish and you have no rights there.

Yes I can back up what I said. A Catholic friend of mine was refused permission to marry in a parish that he registered at but was outside his geographic parish. He was told by the priest there was no valid reason for him not to be married at his own parish church. In the end he got married in his own parish church.

 

[Chatter163]

Maybe we define “join” differently. The parish I am registered at is the one that has all the information about me and the one who asks me to take care of them with my time and financially. We can, I suppose, get technical about how to define “join”, but I don’t think that will help the OP to answer the question. My point was that she can seek out a Catholic church in her area where she would like to worship. She can, as you said, register there.

What confuses me is your line that another priest can and often does refuse to marry you if you are not in their geographical parish. I have never heard of a priest refusing to marry someone who was registered at their parish solely because it wasn’t the person’s geographical parish. Do you have anything to back this up?

I am not the person he said this, but he is absolutely correct. The relevant section of canon law has already been cited here. Regardless of how properly individual pastors do or do not adhere to canon law, the fact remains that one is a member of a certain parish by virtue of one’s address. (The only exception to this is in the rare instances of non-territorial parishes.) Canonically, the pastor is responsible for the celebration of sacraments within his parish. He can delegate this to a parochial vicar, a visiting priest, or to a priest in another parish, at that location. But he is not obligated to do so. I would guess that most pastors nowadays are willing to do this if someone asks (as, among other things, it does reduce their own workload), but one should never assume or expect this. I have certainly seen pastors who followed this rule.

Moreover, I agree that there is a separate issue here that the OP has, which is becoming an active Cathoilc and attending Mass and the sacraments regularly.

 

[Incomplete]

Your parish is the one in which you reside. Registering with another parish does not make it your parish and you have no rights there.

Yes I can back up what I said. A Catholic friend of mine was refused permission to marry in a parish that he registered at but was outside his geographic parish. He was told by the priest there was no valid reason for him not to be married at his own parish church. In the end he got married in his own parish church.

Though this surprises me, it does not mean it often happens, as you said it did. It just means that as others have told the OP, she needs to talk to the priest and ask what needs to be done.

 

[anp1215]

Your parish is the one in which you reside. Registering with another parish does not make it your parish and you have no rights there.

Yes I can back up what I said. A Catholic friend of mine was refused permission to marry in a parish that he registered at but was outside his geographic parish. He was told by the priest there was no valid reason for him not to be married at his own parish church. In the end he got married in his own parish church.

You are correct. A common misconception is that your parish is the one you register at. This is not true. Your parish is the one in which you reside, no matter which parish you decide to register at, if any. For sacraments to occur outside of your parish, you are supposed to get permission from your pastor (that is the pastor of your true, geographic parish), even if you are registered somewhere else.

Now, I know a lot of people will say, “oh but I was registered and attended x parish forever even though I lived in y parish, and the pastor at x never asked for permission for anything from the pastor at y parish.” All I can say is that that is not how it is supposed to work and parishes don’t always follow all the “rules.”

 

[Irishgal49]

You misunderstand. I’m not talking about a persons’ choice of parish in which they wish to attend Mass. We are all free to attend Mass regularly in any parish and even never in your own parish but none of that is relevant to the point.
When it comes to marriage (and assuming all pre-requisites are in order) only the geographic parish churches of the to-be husband and wife are required to allow you to be married there.
All parishes outside your geographic parish can refuse to allow you to get married there and normally they do unless there is some exceptional reason for them to permit it.
Marriage is not about a nice looking church in a lovely setting.

Not if you’re a member. I’m saying that it is a good idea to go close to home but what if they don’t like that church or the people aren’t friendly. I am saying not to be afraid to look further and find a parish where you can learn and grow.

 

[Irishgal49]

You are correct. A common misconception is that your parish is the one you register at. This is not true. Your parish is the one in which you reside, no matter which parish you decide to register at, if any. For sacraments to occur outside of your parish, you are supposed to get permission from your pastor (that is the pastor of your true, geographic parish), even if you are registered somewhere else.

Now, I know a lot of people will say, “oh but I was registered and attended x parish forever even though I lived in y parish, and the pastor at x never asked for permission for anything from the pastor at y parish.” All I can say is that that is not how it is supposed to work and parishes don’t always follow all the “rules.”

Well I was told that wasn’t true. If you aren’t registered anywhere then that is done. If you are registered you are a member and that priest will marry you. I asked the priest.

 

[Irishgal49]

Your parish is the one in which you reside. Registering with another parish does not make it your parish and you have no rights there.

Yes I can back up what I said. A Catholic friend of mine was refused permission to marry in a parish that he registered at but was outside his geographic parish. He was told by the priest there was no valid reason for him not to be married at his own parish church. In the end he got married in his own parish church.

Not me. I had a major falling out with the priest in my “geographical” parish. He never follows any of the rules and sort of “wings it” with Mass. I am never being married by that priest. My parish is 50 minutes away and I’m positive he would be A- OK or I wouldn’t have registered there. Our Diocese doesn’t do this except for weddings at shrines and chapels.

 

[Irishgal49]

Maybe we define “join” differently. The parish I am registered at is the one that has all the information about me and the one who asks me to take care of them with my time and financially. We can, I suppose, get technical about how to define “join”, but I don’t think that will help the OP to answer the question. My point was that she can seek out a Catholic church in her area where she would like to worship. She can, as you said, register there.

What confuses me is your line that another priest can and often does refuse to marry you if you are not in their geographical parish. I have never heard of a priest refusing to marry someone who was registered at their parish solely because it wasn’t the person’s geographical parish. Do you have anything to back this up?

It has never happened in Michigan. We are wandering types here…in fact I don’t know anyone who is a personal friend who attends in their “geographical area”. Nomadic Catholics I guess. I don’t see it being enforced if you are active at the registered parish and attend regularly. The problem would probably come in if you aren’t Catholic or have fallen away and then come in wanting to get married. What if the priest is one those like the church nearest me: wings it, adds to the liturgy, doesn’t follow the Mass–adds his own words, is that what someone who lived in my town is FORCED to do…heck with that. I think different local customs also change some things but if you want a chapel or shrine wedding you have to have the priest where you are registered sign off. I actually have two copies of those forms for a chapel and shrine in Michigan and that’s the wording.

It is much easier if you like the parish in your town but some priests who refuse to follow the rules make that a challenge. Thankfully they are few and far between.

 

[Irishgal49]

It does not matter if you register at another parish (which you are allowed to do) that does not mean you “join” that parish.
Your parish is always the one you are geographically located in and in which you have the right to be married (assuming no impediments and also that pre-requisites are in order).
I am not saying another priest will not marry you but I am saying that they can and often do refuse and you can have no complaint if they refuse because you have no rights at another parish.

Canon Law:

Can. 1115 Marriages are to be celebrated in the parish in which either of the contracting parties has a domicile or a quasi-domicile or a month’s residence or, if there is question of vagi, in the parish in which they are actually residing. With the permission of the proper Ordinary or the proper parish priest, marriages may be celebrated elsewhere.

OK asked my priest --been a priest for 37 years. He said that the phrase “parties has domicile” means that you have been registered there…one party has to be registered there.

 

[thistle]

OK asked my priest --been a priest for 37 years. He said that the phrase “parties has domicile” means that you have been registered there…one party has to be registered there.

That is wrong. Domicile is where you live.

Modern Cartholic Dictionary:

DOMICILE. Permanent habitation in the eyes of the law, by which a person accepts certain responsibilities and has specified rights.** To acquire domicile, one must actually take up residence in a given place with the intention of permanently living there or actually living there for ten years.** Domiciles can be maintained in two place, e.g., summer and winter residences. A wife’s domicile is that of her husband; a child’s that of its parents or legal guardians; an ecclesiastically separated wife may maintain her own. If not ecclesiastically separated, she can have only a quasi-domicile. Temporary absence, no matter how long, does not result in loss of domicile privileges. Domicile entitles a person to ministrations from the pastor of a parish and the bishop of that diocese, to both of whom he owes spiritual obedience. By domicile one acquires a proper parish and a proper diocese. (Etym. Latin domicilium, abode, dwelling; from domus, house.)

 

[Chatter163]

Having spent much time with a diocesan tribunal, I can say that everything that thistle has said on this matter is correct, especially the canonical definition of domicile.

 

[Irishgal49]

I was told that domicile is your home church, where you are registered, that is your home. Otherwise registering at a parish would be pointless. At the parish where I am registered 4 of the 5 weddings were all people who lived out of the area. Here is a copied paragraph from the church on weddings:

Marriage: At least one member of the couple to be married must be registered and an active member of the parish for at least three months prior to filling out the wedding application. (Engaged couples should not be registered under his/her parents.) Applications must be completed at least six months prior to the proposed wedding date to ensure adequate marriage preparation.

That is how it is handled here in Michigan. It is rightly assumed that if you are registered there that is where you wish to have all your sacraments (and family’s) sacraments celebrated. The only exception here is if you are going to a shrine then you need the permission of the pastor WHERE YOU ARE REGISTERED.

Domicile is your HOME CHURCH–that is how it is interpreted here and my pastor is a canon lawyer.

I hope that the couple talks to a priest and finds a church that welcomes them.

 

[Irishgal49]

OK I called the priest at the parish where I was registered. I had a major falling out with the previous priest, which was a first for me, but I later found out about 1/2 the people had the same problem. He was moved and this priest has a canon law degree.

He told me that there are two common interpretations on “domicile”. In our Diocese (and most that he knows of) domicile means where you are registered…most churches here in Michigan require registration in that parish for 3-6 months (a couple of them a year!) before even applying to get married. He said it would make no sense to tell someone who chooses to drive an hour to a parish because of how much of a family they have become to marry in a church where they know no one and don’t wish to attend. He further stated that different Bishops, states, countries may interpret that differently but he felt strongly that it makes no sense to be married in a church where you have not contributed anything and are not emotionally/spiritually invested.

I give financial support to the parish I attend and that in turn supports that priest and the building. If you are registered in my parish you can marry there free of charge (except for the organist and priest’s donation (if you wish–he won’t ask for one).

So…it’s up to the Bishop in your Diocese but the vast majority consider where you are registered as your HOME parish–that is your domicile, your home, the church you support and attend. That gives a far better picture to the officiant of how committed you are to God and His Church.

I’m glad I was able to clear that up for myself because I knew of too many weddings and no one handled them that way here in Michigan.

 

[Phemie]

OK I called the priest at the parish where I was registered. I had a major falling out with the previous priest, which was a first for me, but I later found out about 1/2 the people had the same problem. He was moved and this priest has a canon law degree.

He told me that there are two common interpretations on “domicile”. In our Diocese (and most that he knows of) domicile means where you are registered…most churches here in Michigan require registration in that parish for 3-6 months (a couple of them a year!) before even applying to get married. He said it would make no sense to tell someone who chooses to drive an hour to a parish because of how much of a family they have become to marry in a church where they know no one and don’t wish to attend. He further stated that different Bishops, states, countries may interpret that differently but he felt strongly that it makes no sense to be married in a church where you have not contributed anything and are not emotionally/spiritually invested.

I give financial support to the parish I attend and that in turn supports that priest and the building. If you are registered in my parish you can marry there free of charge (except for the organist and priest’s donation (if you wish–he won’t ask for one).

So…it’s up to the Bishop in your Diocese but the vast majority consider where you are registered as your HOME parish–that is your domicile, your home, the church you support and attend. That gives a far better picture to the officiant of how committed you are to God and His Church.

I’m glad I was able to clear that up for myself because I knew of too many weddings and no one handled them that way here in Michigan.

What that means is that in a large parish a couple could live within parish boundaries, go to Mass every Sunday, put money in the collection plate without using envelopes and still be denied a wedding because they are not ‘registered’. That makes no sense. A priest has a duty to provide the sacraments to all Catholics who reside within his geographic parish, whether they are ‘registered’ or not.

 

[Irishgal49]

What that means is that in a large parish a couple could live within parish boundaries, go to Mass every Sunday, put money in the collection plate without using envelopes and still be denied a wedding because they are not ‘registered’. That makes no sense. A priest has a duty to provide the sacraments to all Catholics who reside within his geographic parish, whether they are ‘registered’ or not.

Actually that’s the opposite here. They will ask you if you are registered anywhere and that’s your home parish. Now, in the case where you are seeking to become Catholic or are fallen away, according to the canon lawyer I spoke with, THEN you have to go where geography dictates…but, you can register somewhere else. If you do then you have to wait a certain amount of time before you can even fill out a marriage inquiry form and even ask about being married. Some churches here require you are registered a year before they will even meet wtih you and then they have to make sure you are able to be married in a Catholic Church as well.

If a couple is not registered, then the geography is the default. If you are registered here in Michigan you have elected to make that your home parish and that priest is the one who would preside over your marriage preparation.

No what you are saying isn’t correct…because, you are assuming everyone is registered. Geography only matters in Michigan (our Diocese) when a Catholic is not registered anywhere. Then the priest in the the local church is the one who helps them. If they go to that parish and decide they want to go to the parish 50 miles away because their sister attends there they can, and once registered, that becomes their homr parish. In Michigan a priest can refuse marriage to a couple who is not registered UNLESS they are fallen away or just becoming Catholic–but even then they register them. Here they can require you are registered for a period of time even if you live 2 blocks from the parish.

Their reasoning; why give a Catholic wedding to a couple who lives 2 blocks away and has no intention of living out that faith. (Grandma wants us to have a Catholic wedding). By the same token the couple who lives 1 1/2 hrs away loves that parish and supports it with their service, attendance, and offerings.

I am not sure how Europe handles that but having quite a few Michigan weddings, I can say that is how it is interpreted here.

 

[Phemie]

Actually that’s the opposite here. They will ask you if you are registered anywhere and that’s your home parish. Now, in the case where you are seeking to become Catholic or are fallen away, according to the canon lawyer I spoke with, THEN you have to go where geography dictates…but, you can register somewhere else. If you do then you have to wait a certain amount of time before you can even fill out a marriage inquiry form and even ask about being married. Some churches here require you are registered a year before they will even meet wtih you and then they have to make sure you are able to be married in a Catholic Church as well.

If a couple is not registered, then the geography is the default. If you are registered here in Michigan you have elected to make that your home parish and that priest is the one who would preside over your marriage preparation.

No what you are saying isn’t correct…because, you are assuming everyone is registered. Geography only matters in Michigan (our Diocese) when a Catholic is not registered anywhere. Then the priest in the the local church is the one who helps them. If they go to that parish and decide they want to go to the parish 50 miles away because their sister attends there they can, and once registered, that becomes their homr parish. In Michigan a priest can refuse marriage to a couple who is not registered UNLESS they are fallen away or just becoming Catholic–but even then they register them. Here they can require you are registered for a period of time even if you live 2 blocks from the parish.

Their reasoning; why give a Catholic wedding to a couple who lives 2 blocks away and has no intention of living out that faith. (Grandma wants us to have a Catholic wedding). By the same token the couple who lives 1 1/2 hrs away loves that parish and supports it with their service, attendance, and offerings.

I am not sure how Europe handles that but having quite a few Michigan weddings, I can say that is how it is interpreted here.

People move in and out of our community all the time, in fact we have a military base which became our responsibility when the military stopped providing a Catholic Chaplain… We have a core population who have been here for decades but many are posted in and out every 3-4 years. We are responsible for all of them whether they register or not, and most do not register unless they want to be involved in parish ministry or they want to use envelopes. If they present their kids for Baptism, or they want to marry or they want to be buried we don’t say “Come back in a year, your name is not on our books.”

 

[Irishgal49]

People move in and out of our community all the time, in fact we have a military base which became our responsibility when the military stopped providing a Catholic Chaplain… We have a core population who have been here for decades but many are posted in and out every 3-4 years. We are responsible for all of them whether they register or not, and most do not register unless they want to be involved in parish ministry or they want to use envelopes. If they present their kids for Baptism, or they want to marry or they want to be buried we don’t say “Come back in a year, your name is not on our books.”

Of course you would. The geographical assignment is for that purpose. But our Diocese says that if you register somewhere that becomes your home parish. I’m just saying that many churches in our small towns require registration to have a wedding.

 

[thistle]

Of course you would. The geographical assignment is for that purpose. But our Diocese says that if you register somewhere that becomes your home parish. I’m just saying that many churches in our small towns require registration to have a wedding.

Sorry but we have to get this straight again.

Your home parish is NOT a parish you register at.
Your home parish is the parish in which you reside, whether you register there or not.

 

[Irishgal49]

Sorry but we have to get this straight again.

Your home parish is NOT a parish you register at.
Your home parish is the parish in which you reside, whether you register there or not.

Your home parish is where you are registered. If you are not registered then it is the closest church in your community. If you select a parish and register that church is your home parish. If you do not do so then one is selected for you so that you can have a designated church.

That came from a canon lawyer so I do have it straight.