Wedding Ceremony Question

[27lw]

It does appear that there is some variations in liturgy, called the "Franciscan rite:​

Franciscan Rite

The Franciscans, unlike the Dominicans, Carmelites and other orders, have never had a peculiar rite properly so called, but conformably to the mind of St. Francis of Assisi always followed the Roman Rite for the celebration of Mass. However, the Friars Minor and the Capuchins wear the amice, instead of the biretta, over the head, and are accustomed to say Mass with their feet uncovered, save only by sandals. They also enjoy certain privileges in regard to the time and place of celebrating Mass, and the Missale Romano-Seraphicum contains many proper Masses not found in the Roman Missal. These are mostly feasts of Franciscan saints and blessed, which are not celebrated throughout the Church, or other feasts having a peculiar connexion with the order, e.g. the Feast of the Mysteries of the Way of the Cross (Friday before Septuagesima), and that of the Seven Joys of the Blessed Virgin (First Sunday after the octave of the Assumption). The same is true in regard to the Breviarium Romano-Seraphicum and Martyrologium Romano-Seraphicum.

The Franciscans exercised great influence in the origin and evolution of the Roman Breviary, and on the revision of the Rubrics of the Mass. They have also their own calendar, or ordo. This calendar may be used not only in the churches of the First Order, but also in the churches and chapels of the Second Order, and Third Order Regular (if aggregated to the First Order) and Secular, as well as those religious institutes which have had some connexion with the parent body. It may also be used by secular priests or clerics who are members of the Third Order. The order has also its own ritual and ceremonial for its receptions, professions, etc.

 

[pianistclare]

It does appear that there is some variations in liturgy, called the "Franciscan rite:​

Franciscan Rite

The Franciscans, unlike the Dominicans, Carmelites and other orders, have never had a peculiar rite properly so called, but conformably to the mind of St. Francis of Assisi always followed the Roman Rite for the celebration of Mass. However, the Friars Minor and the Capuchins wear the amice, instead of the biretta, over the head, and are accustomed to say Mass with their feet uncovered, save only by sandals. They also enjoy certain privileges in regard to the time and place of celebrating Mass, and the Missale Romano-Seraphicum contains many proper Masses not found in the Roman Missal. These are mostly feasts of Franciscan saints and blessed, which are not celebrated throughout the Church, or other feasts having a peculiar connexion with the order, e.g. the Feast of the Mysteries of the Way of the Cross (Friday before Septuagesima), and that of the Seven Joys of the Blessed Virgin (First Sunday after the octave of the Assumption). The same is true in regard to the Breviarium Romano-Seraphicum and Martyrologium Romano-Seraphicum.

The Franciscans exercised great influence in the origin and evolution of the Roman Breviary, and on the revision of the Rubrics of the Mass. They have also their own calendar, or ordo. This calendar may be used not only in the churches of the First Order, but also in the churches and chapels of the Second Order, and Third Order Regular (if aggregated to the First Order) and Secular, as well as those religious institutes which have had some connexion with the parent body. It may also be used by secular priests or clerics who are members of the Third Order. The order has also its own ritual and ceremonial for its receptions, professions, etc.

That has little to do with this query. The Franciscan also do no use Gregorian Chant in their Liturgy. Another factoid that has nothing to do with what the OP is asking.

 

[John_Martin_1]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Yes, prostration is a posture that rightly belongs to the clergy.

Just wondering, I have seen laypeople prostrate themselves during adoration. Is this fine? I know they do it with a sincere heart and not to make show or anything.

(Should I start a new thread if I want to ask this?)

 

[pianistclare]

[SIGN][/SIGN]

Just wondering, I have seen people prostrate themselves during adoration. Is this fine? I know they do it with a sincere heart and not to make show or anything.

Right. I’ve seen it too.
It’s up to their individual pastor. As a private devotion maybe… but in a public place?
I would seek the advice of a priest. I know our priests doesn’t like anyone to do for any reason. They say it’s a posture reserved to the clergy, but we all know many pious folks from other cultures do this.
Much would depend on whether or not the others at Adoration find it disruptive to their prayer for whatever reason (not being able to concentrate, having to step over said person to get to their seat, etc.)
A silent retreat center near us has 24-7 Adoration, and in the wee hours of the night, one can often find a person there, prostrate. But then, I imagine they only did so because no one was there to see them, and it’s a very private thing.

Around or within the Liturgy though, no bueno. Whether intentional or not, it does impact others.

 

[27lw]

That has little to do with this query. The Franciscan also do no use Gregorian Chant in their Liturgy. Another factoid that has nothing to do with what the OP is asking.

From the caption of the photo:
“Just as priests and religious lay prostrate as they make their vows to God, we felt called also to make this act of love during our wedding. As one of the** Franciscan Friars of the Renewal C.F.R**. chanted the Litany of the Saints,”

So how do you know this wedding was not performed by a priest who follows a variant Franciscan rite?

 

[pianistclare]

From the caption of the photo:
“Just as priests and religious lay prostrate as they make their vows to God, we felt called also to make this act of love during our wedding. As one of the** Franciscan Friars of the Renewal C.F.R**. chanted the Litany of the Saints,”

So how do you know this wedding was not performed by a priest who follows a variant Franciscan rite?

I said GREGORIAN chant. It can be chanted in English. And often is.

 

[27lw]

Hi, I’m not talking about the chant, actually. I’m bringing your attention to the possibility that there may have been some deviation to the usual nuptial liturgy, possibly because it was celebrated by a religious (Franciscan) priest, for all we know. Since there was a Franciscan Friar of the Renewal there. That’s why I copied in the part about Franciscan rites. Since we weren’t there, we just don’t know how or why this happened this way.

 

[John_Martin_1]

Right. I’ve seen it too.
It’s up to their individual pastor. As a private devotion maybe… but in a public place?
I would seek the advice of a priest. I know our priests doesn’t like anyone to do for any reason. They say it’s a posture reserved to the clergy, but we all know many pious folks from other cultures do this.
Much would depend on whether or not the others at Adoration find it disruptive to their prayer for whatever reason (not being able to concentrate, having to step over said person to get to their seat, etc.)
A silent retreat center near us has 24-7 Adoration, and in the wee hours of the night, one can often find a person there, prostrate. But then, I imagine they only did so because no one was there to see them, and it’s a very private thing.

Around or within the Liturgy though, no bueno. Whether intentional or not, it does impact others.

All makes sense. Thank you!

 

[pianistclare]

Hi, I’m not talking about the chant, actually. I’m bringing your attention to the possibility that there may have been some deviation to the usual nuptial liturgy, possibly because it was celebrated by a religious (Franciscan) priest, for all we know. Since there was a Franciscan Friar of the Renewal there. That’s why I copied in the part about Franciscan rites. Since we weren’t there, we just don’t know how or why this happened this way.

Right but he is asking if he should do it.
He should not. Unless his priest unprompted suggests it. It’s not part of the Nuptial liturgy.
We “see” many things online. Not all are approved.
Always defer to your priest.

 

[27lw]

Right but he is asking if he should do it.
He should not. Unless his priest unprompted suggests it. It’s not part of the Nuptial liturgy.
We “see” many things online. Not all are approved.
Always defer to your priest.

No, I don’t think he is asking if he should do it.
“I had a question about the liturgy during a weddding ceremony. I was saw a picture of a couple lying prostrate during their ceremony and I was curious if anyone had seen it practiced before and where it would take place in the ceremony? I imagine it would be done whilst chanting the litany of saints. Just curious, nowhere near planning a wedding”

 

[tafan]

When someone tries to be traditional who has no idea how to be traditional, very strange things can occur.

 

[27lw]

When someone tries to be traditional who has no idea how to be traditional, very strange things can occur.

Agreed!

I’ve read a lot about how the traddie altar server uniform of choice if really really wrong - - that what they are wearing is “choir dress”. The white alb (which seems more favored by the Spirit of Vat II folks) is actually the correct vestment…

 

[dixieagle]

Maybe this nuptial ceremony was done by a religious priest, rather than a parish priest? Since there was a litany, which is unusual (forbidden?), and the prostration, presumably the priest would have okayed this. They mention the Franciscans of the Renewal, which is a conservative order, I believe. I’m not a fan of novelties in the liturgy, but at least this one must have been approved by someone ahead of time. I think it is fitting in a way, since it is good to know that both spouses are willing to prostrate themselves and ready to do the will of the Lord. At least it’s not “all about my day!”

Actually, it pretty much was “all about my day” as this is in no way part of the Rite of Marriage, no matter what any Franciscan says. I’ve about had it with “feeling called” to do this or that.

 

[Gertabelle]

Hi, I’m not talking about the chant, actually. I’m bringing your attention to the possibility that there may have been some deviation to the usual nuptial liturgy, possibly because it was celebrated by a religious (Franciscan) priest, for all we know. Since there was a Franciscan Friar of the Renewal there. That’s why I copied in the part about Franciscan rites. Since we weren’t there, we just don’t know how or why this happened this way.

Religious orders have specific rites for their own communities – a rite of reception, a rite of receiving the habit, a rite of profession, etc.

They do NOT have their own rites of marriage, or confirmation, or baptism…

 

[FrDavid96]

The peculiarities of the religious orders no longer apply in the novus ordo. Variations of the calendar is the only part that really applies today.

There is provision for adding certain customs to the marriage rite, but these additions must be approved by the conference of bishops. Indeed, the marriage rite itself encourages the addition of cultural elements, but only after approval by competent authority.

There is no such adaptation by the USCCB to insert the Litany of the Saints into the marriage rite.

Personally, I like the idea (at least as an option) but the rite just doesn’t allow it.

 

[Gertabelle]

The peculiarities of the religious orders no longer apply in the novus ordo. Variations of the calendar is the only part that really applies today.

There is provision for adding certain customs to the marriage rite, but these additions must be approved by the conference of bishops. Indeed, the marriage rite itself encourages the addition of cultural elements, but only after approval by competent authority.

There is no such adaptation by the USCCB to insert the Litany of the Saints into the marriage rite.

Personally, I like the idea (at least as an option) but the rite just doesn’t allow it.

I suppose if the couple wanted the Litany of the Saints, it could be sung as the wedding party enters the church? There is a place in the rite for an entrance hymn or music.

And a Litany of the Saints would be far preferable to yet another rendition of the Canon in D!

 

[FrDavid96]

I suppose if the couple wanted the Litany of the Saints, it could be sung as the wedding party enters the church? There is a place in the rite for an entrance hymn or music.

And a Litany of the Saints would be far preferable to yet another rendition of the Canon in D!

Maybe a variation on it…maybe.

I’m not sure where I stand on this one. The question of using the Litany of the Saints as a hymn comes up from time to time.

It is part of the Church’s official Liturgy, and as such, it should be used in exactly the way the Church prescribes.

At the same time, in contrast, there’s ample history of taking parts of the Liturgy and transforming them into hymns. I would not argue against the legitimacy of doing this (within reason).

So, a hymn that’s based on the Litany of the Saints? I suppose that would be fine.

On the other hand, to take the Litany as it exists and use it as a hymn, I don’t think would be acceptable.

Think of this as a parallel: we can have hymns that are similar to the Lamb of God. They might work as an offertory hymn. But to take the Lamb of God and use it outright as an offertory hymn, I don’t think would be acceptable.

The real issue here is that everyone, couples and pastors, should be using the Rite of Marriage as the Church has designed the Rite and not try to invent personal variations. Make use of the available options instead.