Wedding of Cana and Protestants?

[Francis]

No. How can they not see she interceded?

Because they are blinded by the evil one 2 Cor4:4 .

Revelation 12: 13 So when the dragon saw that he had been thrown down to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child. 14 But the woman was given the two wings of the great eagle, so that she could fly from the serpent into the wilderness, to her place where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time. 15 Then from his mouth the serpent poured water like a river after the woman, to sweep her away with the flood. 16 But the earth came to the help of the woman; it opened its mouth and swallowed the river that the dragon had poured from his mouth. 17 Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her children, those who keep the commandments of God and hold the testimony of Jesus.

 

[HopkinsReb]

I’ll add that my Anglican priest (who is squarely a Reform Anglican, not an Anglo-Catholic) delivered a homily on how central and self-sacrificing Mary was in interceding at the wedding. It’s simply not the case that most Protestants view Mary as “just another woman.” There’s a middle ground between that position and the Catholic position, and that’s where most Protestants are.

 

[ZMystiCat]

Remember what Adam said? “Bone of my bone. Flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman for out of man she has been taken.”

I was speaking more to the name given to Eve. “Eve” actually didn’t come until after the Fall. “Woman” was her name prior to that.

How would Jesus consider this? “Bone of my bone. Flesh of my flesh…”

It’s actually sort of interesting in that, by the Biblical narrative, Jesus’ coming from Mary is the closest we have to how Eve came from Adam. It’s not through sexual intercourse but instead by God directly using one person’s body to bring another human into the world. It’s reversed compared to the Genesis narrative, but as Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11:12

For just as woman came from man, so man is born of woman; but all things are from God.

Just wow. I have never, ever heard this in my 60 years of Protestant. Shame on anyone who would teach this.

For context, growing up a mix of Pentecostal/Evangelical and Fundamentalist, I most frequently heard the side of Jesus disrespecting Mary. When I started attending Reformed churches, I started hearing the side of her sinning and Jesus being angry at her.

 

[ZMystiCat]

I’ll add that my Anglican priest (who is squarely a Reform Anglican, not an Anglo-Catholic) delivered a homily on how central and self-sacrificing Mary was in interceding at the wedding. It’s simply not the case that most Protestants view Mary as “just another woman.” There’s a middle ground between that position and the Catholic position, and that’s where most Protestants are.

I’m not really sure I’d go so far as to say most Protestants are in the middle, but that might just be because my experience is generally with those Protestants who basically look for reasons to view her as just another woman. At most, some might concede the Mother of God title to her, but the impression I got was less than it was giving her honor and more that it was recognizing Christ’s Divinity. I did once hear a sermon at an EFCA church (pastor was essentially Reformed Baptist) that talked a lot about what she might have gone through as a woman who was claiming to be a virgin but still pregnant. That was probably the only time I ever heard Mary spoken of in very high regard, and even then the pastor was clearly concerned with being “too respectful”.

With that said, since converting, I have been pleasantly surprised by some of what I’ve heard about Mary from Anglicans. It’s better than anything I heard from Protestants while growing up.

 

[HopkinsReb]

With that said, since converting, I have been pleasantly surprised by some of what I’ve heard about Mary from Anglicans. It’s better than anything I heard from Protestants while growing up.

We’re an agreeable sort. It comes from having to tolerate closet Presbyterians within the ranks.

 

[Hodos]

The first one to notice the lack of wine at Cana is the Blessed Mother, and she immediately intercedes for the newlyweds. Jesus doesn’t really want to intervene but Mary insists and he does what his Mother asks him to do. What’s the Protestant view on this? What do they say to deny it? The first thing that the evangelist points out is the presence of Mary at the banquet. If her presence wasn’t important there wouldn’t have been the need to write it.

I don’t understand what point you are trying to prove here. We do not however believe the point of this passage is to introduce Mary as mediator to Christ. What this passage does, and the preceding passages where John the Baptist points to Christ as the Lamb of God, and Andrew and Nathaniel pointing to Christ as Messiah, is brings attention to Christ as having special authority given by God to accomplish his work. Again, the point is less about Mary than it is about Christ. I would be careful not to lose sight of who John is writing about in his gospel. The same could be said about any character introduced by John in his gospel. Their job is to point to Christ.

 

[Crocus]

Jesus doesn’t really want to intervene but Mary insists and he does what his Mother asks him to do.

My priest’s homily did not reflect this (bolded), as asking or insisting, as if it is her will. Instead, he said Mary presented the problem and (in faith) left it with Jesus. This is in line with what another poster said, that Jesus only ever does the will of the Father. And, Mary always points to Jesus, saying do whatever He tells you.

Putting those thoughts together, we see that Mary’s will also serves the will of God, not surprising, as she is the Immaculate Conception.

 

[Dlee]

he said Mary presented the problem and (in faith) left it with Jesus.

I like this - so Mary can present our prayer to Christ, and he will answer according to His will.

 

[Justin_Mary]

So Jesus says “My hour has not yet come” so why does Mary proceed to “force” Him to act by telling the servers “Do whatever he tells you”?

What exactly is going on? If He is obeying her to fulfill the commandment then wouldn’t He be disobeying God His Father?

I’ve thought about this quite a bit… but in a different way.

Let’s say you’re the Virgin Mary, an angel comes to you one day & says you will conceive & give birth to the Son of God.

Not that you’re wanting to kick him out, but after 25 or so, wouldn’t you be wondering what’s going on? I mean he becomes a man at what, 12? 14?

He doesn’t join the army, he’s not into politics, he’s not teaching in the synagogue. Doesn’t look like he’s preparing to be king.

Then I thought about that saying, “God doesn’t call the prepared. He prepares the called.”

So I’m thinking, & this is new to me, he had been preparing her for Calvary. 30 years & she was telling him she’s ready.

 

[John_Martin]

Jesus says “My hour has not yet come” so why does Mary proceed to “force” Him to act by telling the servers “Do whatever he tells you”?

What exactly is going on? If He is obeying her to fulfill the commandment then wouldn’t He be disobeying God His Father?

Jesus:

What to me and to you, woman; my hour has not yet come.

Demons: (Matt 8:29)

What to us and to you, Son of God? Have You come here to torture us before the appointed time?

In both cases there is surprise.
Jesus is caught off guard by Woman, because it’s too soon.
The demons are caught off guard by the Son of God because it’s too soon.
This is an idiomatic phrase for saying, “Why are you here with me now you are early? (But since you are here let’s get the ball rolling.)”

Mary understood this and that is why she spoke next to the servants and told them to do whatever Jesus asked.

The demons understood this and that is why they were ready to be cast out, for instance the ones who wanted to be put into the swine instead of just simply cast out.

The next time someone shows up early for lunch say to them, “What to me and to you, friend; you are here before the appointed time, but let’s start eating.”

John Martin

 

[TULIPed]

Yes, yes. Bully the Calvinists. Take a break from stuffing us in our lockers and stealing our lunch money and have a look at your Westminster Confession. We snuck one in on you there

As for Mary - I’ve been a Protestant my whole life and have never heard Mary referred to in any other manner than respectfully and with admiration.

 

[HopkinsReb]

Yes, yes. Bully the Calvinists. Take a break from stuffing us in our lockers and stealing our lunch money and have a look at your Westminster Confession. We snuck one in on you there

As for Mary - I’ve been a Protestant my whole life and have never heard Mary referred to in any other manner than respectfully and with admiration.

Y’all just fit so well into lockers. It’s not my fault!

It really is beneficial to my home life that the Anglican Church is friendly to my more Catholic and my wife’s more Reformed beliefs.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

We’re an agreeable sort. It comes from having to tolerate closet Presbyterians within the ranks.

My Scots Presbyterian husband said once when we had been dating a couple years, “Anglicans? They’re practically Catholics!”

My grands were Irish Catholics who emigrated England…I about hit the roof of the car and told him if he ever said that around my mom she’d probably punch him.

I see why he thought that way though. Compared to his church, you looked pretty much like Catholics to him.

 

[HopkinsReb]

HopkinsReb:

We’re an agreeable sort. It comes from having to tolerate closet Presbyterians within the ranks.

My Scots Presbyterian husband said once when we had been dating a couple years, “Anglicans? They’re practically Catholics!”

My grands were Irish Catholics who emigrated England…I about hit the roof of the car and told him if he ever said that around my mom she’d probably punch him.

I see why he thought that way though.

The Presbyterians think we’re wannabe Catholics and the Catholics think we’re fancy Presbyterians.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Yeah, in my book you’re all just orange

 

[stephenSTOSS1]

From The Science & Theology of Salt in Scripture:

The miracle at Cana and the setting in which it was performed pre-figures: 1) the bride of Christ; 2) the bridegroom, i.e. the resurrected NC Temple; 3) the marriage of the two, i.e. through Baptism (six stone jars); and 4) the most intimate of nuptial unions through the sacrament of the Eucharist (the wedding feast of the lamb), from which the Church draws her life, i.e. the Holy Spirit [John Paul II, Ecclesia de Eucharistia , n. 1]. At the very beginning of his public ministry, Jesus (through the intercession of the future Mother of the Church) is telling us what would happen as a result of the accomplishment of his mission.

Furthermore, because the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ, Mary, via Jesus’ directions to John at the foot of the cross through which he teaches us that Mary is the Mother of all the living … those who are united to her Son through Baptism. As Mother of the Church, she intercedes for all the members of the Mystical Body.

“On the third day” are the very first words of the story of the miracle at Cana and they are quite significant. On the first day of John’s narrative, Jesus is baptized in the Jordan, foreshadowing the baptism of water and the Spirit, which is the rite of initiation into the nuptial mystery that is the Church that Jesus would build. On the third day of his public ministry, he performs the miracle at Cana. The timing of this event coincides with, and specifically points to, another very significant future event that would occur on the “third day”: the Resurrection of Jesus from the dead [Ratzinger Jesus of Nazareth Part One , 250]. It was Easter — the third day after His death on the cross. It was the day that he arose from the dead through the power of the Holy Spirit. It was the day when his body was spiritualized and glorified. It was the day of the arrival of the Kingdom of God/Kingdom of Heaven, which is the outpouring of the Holy Spirit [Durrwell, Holy Spirit of God , 38-39; CCC , n. 1287] in the person of Jesus Christ [Durrwell, Holy Spirit of God , 64 and 178-179].

“My hour has not yet come” (Jn. 2:4). What does he mean by his hour ? It is when Jesus dies and passes over to the Father [ CCC, n. 1085; Durrwell, Holy Spirit of God , 143-146]. … We can summarize the significance of the “third day” thusly: 1) on the third day after the start of Jesus’ public ministry, he performed a miracle that foreshadowed and summarized the entire purpose of his mission on earth; 2) his mission was the establishment and creation of His Church whom he would take as his bride, who would be purified in the waters of Baptism, through which she becomes one Mystical Body with the new and everlasting Temple; and 3) this mission would be accomplished through his Passover on the third day after the end of His public ministry [CCC, n.691].