Wedding on the beach?

[mikew262]

Yeah, like someone should tell them, so thay don’t keep heaping sin, upon sin, upon sin!

Lets gets realistic here. A couple who have been married legally, and yet are not going to act like they are married for a year? What world are you living in? While technically you may be right…

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Lets gets realistic here. A couple who have been married legally, and yet are not going to act like they are married for a year? What world are you living in? While technically you may be right…

I live in a Catholic world, think like a Catholic and live like a Catholic, and act like a Catholic. It may not be the way the world expects and sometimes I do get comments and looks, like, “how strange?” But I really don’t care. I personally would never let someone continue down a path towards eternal damnation without trying to convince them otherwise.

The Catholic in the couple is not living their Catholic Faith. someone, their preparation Sponsors, Pastor, parents all need to get them to understand that they are risking their souls by considering doing this. (I should add if this is not approved by their Bishop)

 

[mzyniecki]

If having a Mass is valid outdoors, why is a marriage outdoors invalid?

 

[hasikelee]

Can’t they have a reception on the beach instead? All those chairs, sitting in the sun and wind…ugh. What about bad weather?

What about getting married in the Church first, with just two witnesses, then having a big ceremony outside?

 

[VietCatholic83]

If having a Mass is valid outdoors, why is a marriage outdoors invalid?

For me, this is a critical question. Believe me, I am all for a couple being married in a church and I understand the reasons as to why it is appropriate to do so. But then this question inevitably arises. How are we to address it?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

If having a Mass is valid outdoors, why is a marriage outdoors invalid?

It wouldn’t be if the Bishop allows an outdoor wedding, most if not almost all, do not allow outdoor weddings. What would be invalid is if they are determined to do this anyway and then attempt to have the Chruch accept it.

A Mass also cannot be celebrated outdoors unless the Bishop allows it.

 

[kage_ar]

Catholic Answers Live ROCKS!!

This evening, the Canon Law Expert answered this question many times. The Bishop determines if outdoor weddings are permitted in his Diocese. Just ask your Pastor, he will know.

 

[drafdog]

Inconsistencies in the rules is a hallmark of any bureaucracy. For example, you point out that it is forbidden to confer the sacrament of matrimony while standing out of doors, and I point out that the Pope is celebrating Mass in a baseball stadium. Whereas neither you nor I can see any significant difference in the sanctity of the two venues, the Eucharist (or any of the other sacraments) may be celebrated virtually anywhere, but matrimony may not. It’s purely a bureaucratic restriction and cannot have anything to do with the sacrament as such, no matter what the bureaucrats may say to the contrary. If it were the sanctity of the sacrament that was at issue, then there would be similar restrictions on all the sacraments.

Matthew

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Inconsistencies in the rules is a hallmark of any bureaucracy. For example, you point out that it is forbidden to confer the sacrament of matrimony while standing out of doors, and I point out that the Pope is celebrating Mass in a baseball stadium. Whereas neither you nor I can see any significant difference in the sanctity of the two venues, the Eucharist (or any of the other sacraments) may be celebrated virtually anywhere, but matrimony may not. It’s purely a bureaucratic restriction and cannot have anything to do with the sacrament as such, no matter what the bureaucrats may say to the contrary. If it were the sanctity of the sacrament that was at issue, then there would be similar restrictions on all the sacraments.

Matthew

There IS similar restrictions on all the other Sacraments. I’m sure the Pope got permission, lol!

 

[bpbasilphx]

This couple should be gently reminded that it’s not their wedding.

It’s the CHURCH’S wedding, and it’s being bestowed upon them.

 

[drafdog]

Bro Rich seems to differ and I guess that I can concede him one point. ONLY sacraments of vocation are required to be performed inside a church. I can be shriven anywhere; baptism is done preferably with “living” (running) water, thus out of doors by the brook over inside with a ewer of water; confirmation is more a part of baptism than a separate sacrament, so you’re back by the brook; Eucharist is performed out of doors frequently; anointing the sick occurs in the sick room or on the roadside (motor accidents). The only ones left are matrimony and holy orders (miscalled a single sacrament as there are in fact three under current practice.)

Best way to have your marriage on the beach (a far holier location than a baseball field, note that there is living water present) is to have permission for an outdoor Mass and have the wedding ceremony within the Mass.

Somehow the prospect of an altar erected on the pitcher’s mound just strikes me as all wrong. The venue and the crowd reduce it to a spectacle.

Matthew

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Bro Rich seems to differ and I guess that I can concede him one point. ONLY sacraments of vocation are required to be performed inside a church. I can be shriven anywhere; baptism is done preferably with “living” (running) water, thus out of doors by the brook over inside with a ewer of water; confirmation is more a part of baptism than a separate sacrament, so you’re back by the brook; Eucharist is performed out of doors frequently; anointing the sick occurs in the sick room or on the roadside (motor accidents). The only ones left are matrimony and holy orders (miscalled a single sacrament as there are in fact three under current practice.)

Best way to have your marriage on the beach (a far holier location than a baseball field, note that there is living water present) is to have permission for an outdoor Mass and have the wedding ceremony within the Mass.

Somehow the prospect of an altar erected on the pitcher’s mound just strikes me as all wrong. The venue and the crowd reduce it to a spectacle.

Matthew

Well Canon Law says about Baptism:

Can. 857~1 Apart from a case of necessity, the proper place for baptism is a church or an oratory.

For Confirmation:

Can. 881 It is desirable that the sacrament of confirmation be celebrated in a church and indeed during Mass. However, for a just and reasonable cause it may be celebrated apart from Mass and in any fitting place.

For Reconciliation:

Can. 964~1 The proper place for hearing sacramental confessions is a church or oratory.

For Ordination:

Can. 1011~1 An ordination is normally to be celebrated in the cathedral church. For
pastoral reasons, however, it may be celebrated in another church or oratory.

For Marriage:

Can. 1118~1 A marriage between catholics, or between a catholic party and a baptised non-catholic, is to be celebrated in the parish church. By permission of the local Ordinary or of the parish priest, it may be celebrated in another church or oratory.

SO in other words the Sacraments ordinarily take place in a church or oratory under normal circumstances, unless special circumstances require otherwise.

 

[drafdog]

I’m sure Peter never celebrated the Eucharist in the Roman Coliseum, the functional equivalent to Yankee Stadium. It just seems absurd that a beach is deemed less suitable for a sacramental liturgy than a sports arena. Someone’s sense of symbol and imagery is misaligned.

Matthew

 

[John_Lilburne]

…Can. 1118~1 A marriage between catholics, or between a catholic party and a baptised non-catholic, is to be celebrated in the parish church. By permission of the local Ordinary or of the parish priest, it may be celebrated in another church or oratory.

It is misleading to only quote Canon 1118 §1 and not include the rest of this canon. From vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P40.HTM :
Ҥ2. The local ordinary can permit a marriage to be celebrated in another suitable place.
§3. A marriage between a Catholic party and a non-baptized party can be celebrated in a church or in another suitable place.”

Not just another church or oratory. Another suitable place is permitted, according to the decision of the local ordinary (normally a bishop).

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I’m sure Peter never celebrated the Eucharist in the Roman Coliseum, the functional equivalent to Yankee Stadium. It just seems absurd that a beach is deemed less suitable for a sacramental liturgy than a sports arena. Someone’s sense of symbol and imagery is misaligned.

Matthew

The 1983 Code of Canon Law did not apply to St. Peter.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

It is misleading to only quote Canon 1118 §1 and not include the rest of this canon. From vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P40.HTM :
Ҥ2. The local ordinary can permit a marriage to be celebrated in another suitable place.
§3. A marriage between a Catholic party and a non-baptized party can be celebrated in a church or in another suitable place.”

Not just another church or oratory. Another suitable place is permitted, according to the decision of the local ordinary (normally a bishop).

My point was that the canons normally expect the Sacraments to be celebrated in a church and then depending on circumstances allow some certain exceptions with appropriate permissions. But without considering the exceptions, the Sacraments are expected to be celebrated in a church normally.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

Note that marriage between a Catholic and a non-baptized party is not a sacrament, and would not usually involve a mass. Since no sacrament is involved, it need not be in a church.

 

[puzzleannie]

also note that most of this discussion ignores the key point, which is that this couple plans to enter into an invalid marriage from the get go, no matter where they do it, and urgently need and deserve pastoral counseling for a clear understanding of the meaning and demands of Christian marriage, and of the law binding on Catholics.

 

[mikew262]

The 1983 Code of Canon Law did not apply to St. Peter.

Interesting point. You would think we’d follow the example of St. Peter then. Why establish a Church law for us, if it wasn’t necessary for the head apostle?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Interesting point. You would think we’d follow the example of St. Peter then. Why establish a Church law for us, if it wasn’t necessary for the head apostle?

Because the Church has the authority to do so and we obey it.