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Suslar
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Agreed.
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Sanctifiable
Guest
Thank you for your great advice, I think this is what I was looking for. You very eloquently stated how I feel about this situation ( better than I did), I am single and do not have children or this would even be more difficult. I’m not close enough to the couple to pull either aside to talk to them especially this close to the wedding, Its disappointing that the parents of both did not do this earlier but such are the times we live in not to mention their priest. To make matters worse is the bride has a young son from another relationship to learn all of this. This has gotten me thinking about my wretched past when I lived this way with my ex before we got married, I didn’t even consider how much of a sin it was I was so blinded. I have a little time to think on it, I just got the invitation today.Oops sorry about confusing you for a she
The priest ideally should, not just for the sake of the couple but in order to correct the confusion that the couple has caused to fellow Catholics, ask them to separate.
In this case, the real reason it has come down to you having to choose or worry is because the priest had not done that. If the priest had done that, the couple had not followed through (which could imply they do not understand what a marriage is and Church teaching on sexuality). Or the couple did follow through and are living as brother and sister after a good confession. But in that case, the damage (by adding to the normalizing of cohabitation before marriage) they had done publicly during their years of cohabitation have not been repaired. So the confusion still remains among those who knew them. Ideally they should have separated so that there is a visible acknowledgement that they did something wrong and they do not consider it an ok thing to do.
Since these things have not happened, you are left with having to decide whether you want to attend the wedding and how much you attending will give the impression that “cohabitation before marriage is normal”.
If I were in your shoes, I would try to do what my conscience and prudence informs me.
You might want to ask yourself what impact you will have in not attending. Will they understand why you will not attend. Is it possible that they will think of it as you not agreeing to them marrying (which you are not doing. you only disagree with their cohabitation).
On the other hand, if you have young children, you might want to worry about the message you send your children. They might one day think it is ok to cohabit because you will just be ok with it as long as they get married in the end. You not attending will at least send them the message that if they want your approval, they should not do such things.
The truth is, unless there are those who look up to you like children/grand children or younger siblings, or you are someone people look up to in general, you attending or not attending will most likely not make an impact. It was always the priests job to correct the damage and make it clear to the couple. If he failed, then at this point, you cannot do much. But if you do have those who look up to you or highly value your approval, then I feel it will be better not to attend. Not for the sake of the couple but in order to avoid scandalizing those who look up to you.
What you could do now is try and talk with them even now to perhaps separate temporarily because cohabiting is not moral (this depends on how much you know them and how friendly you are with them). If you hear from them that the priest said its not needed, then you can take the complaint to the right man and make an impact.
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aemcpa
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His point is that the marriage will be clearly valid, so there is no reason not to go. Why do you think that attending the wedding of two cohabiting people would be construed as you giving tacit approval to cohabitation? On the contrary, the marriage puts an end to their cohabitation. If you were invited to a baby shower or a housewarming party, I could see your point. It is certainly within your right as a fellow Christian to inform them their current situation is sinful and that they should confess it and refrain from further sin so that they can be in the state of grace when they marry. But I can’t grasp how not attending the wedding would make that point. If you believe that their sin somehow invalidates the marriage, then you run afoul of Canon 12 of the Council of Trent’s Canons on the Sacraments: “If any one saith, that a minister, being in mortal sin - if so be that he observe all the essentials which belong to the effecting, or conferring of, the sacrament - neither effects, nor confers the sacrament; let him be anathema.”
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thewanderer
Guest
No, 1ke didn’t miss that part of the story. Look, in a way I can understand why someone would worry that attending the wedding would condone prior sin, but, really, a couple who were previously in a state of sin entering into a valid marriage so that their relationship will no longer be sinful is a good thing. The wedding itself has nothing to do with the fact that they cohabited before marriage. The wedding is a sacrament by which they will finally be able to have the commited relationship they wanted without sinning. If you feel it is your duty to let them know that you dissaprove of the cohabitation then talk to them in person about it. The wedding has nothing to do with the cohabitation except for the fact that the wedding puts an end to the cohabitation.
The other thing that seems to worry you is that since they are both still living in the same house you are afraid that their priest is not preparing them properly for marriage. Again, this is something that you can either bring up with them or the priest in question. The primary response should not be to decide to boycott the wedding. The only reason to avoid a wedding is if it is not a valid wedding, and even then, depending on the particular situation, it can be permissible to attend, although it would be very wrong to be an attendant in such a ceremony.
You are confusing the wedding itself with events that happened before the wedding which you disaprove of. The wedding itself is, as far as you can tell, going to be a valid Catholic wedding, there is no requirement from the Church to ever avoid a valid Catholic wedding. If you dislike or disaprove of something which happened before the wedding talk to those involved about it. The only reason to boycott a wedding is if you disaprove of the wedding itself, and since there is no special reason for Catholics to disaprove of a valid catholic marriage if you decide to boycott it can only be seen as a sign of personal disaproval of the couple involved.
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Eufrosnia
Guest
Glad if I could be of any help!
Cohabitation can become a very tangled mess. According to research in to the statistics, those who cohabit have a increased chance of divorce. It is a very counter-intuitive result that many people even find it hard to believe after first hearing. Then there is the side-effect of scandalizing others in to thinking of cohabitation as a regular act before marriage.
No matter what your past, you are doing the right thing now. Will keep you in my prayers! Keep up the good fight!
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PatriceA
Guest
Well I’m glad you asked…and I hope this thread didn’t scare you away from asking any other questions you have about the teachings of the Church.
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JReducation
Guest
The Church certainly wants these arrangements to be regularized. I don’t know if I would say that there is a mass movement; but there is a desire to move in that direction.
This is not true in most dioceses of the USA. There is a prenuptial program through which couples have to go and compatibility assessments that they have to take.
It is also true that no one can deny a Catholic the sacrament of marriage unless there is a canonical impediment. Even if the priest or the deacon think that this is a mistake, he does not have the authority to deny the sacrament. He must have something concrete that would be an impediment.
There is. That’s what the Sacrament of Reconciliation is for. What the priest tells the penitent need not be made known to the public. I know couples who have gone to confession and have had to live as celibates until they marry. I know it only because they have shared it with me in confidence. This is not something that the Church makes known to the public or that the Church wants us to be involved in. Once the minister agrees to witness the marriage, everyone else has to back off. We have no idea what happens behind closed doors.
It only has to be visible to the priest doing the absolving, not to everyone else.
I strongly recommend against this. You would be intruding in something that is strictly between the penitent and the confessor.
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choliks
Guest
Isn’t the Sacrament of Reconciliation a requirement before marriage? It is in my side of the world. We’re even “required” to attend a Pre-Cana or Discovery Weekend (sort of like “Marriage 101” and information on NFP) for couples who desire to get married in the Church.
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aemcpa
Guest
No, it isn’t.
No, it isn’t.
That’s standard operating procedure.
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choliks
Guest
The Sacrament of Reconciliation is required here in the Philippines. I’m sorry if I didn’t make that clear.
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aemcpa
Guest
You were clear. I am saying you are misunderstanding what is required vs. what is encouraged, appropriate, beneficial, preferred, etc. Confession is not required for a marriage to be valid. Are you telling me that the bishops have decreed that a priest must refuse to marry a couple if they don’t confess to him personally? Because there is no way for the priest to find out whether they went to confession to any other priest because of the seal of the confessional.
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choliks
Guest
I get your point. But read #13 here:
lourdeschurchtagaytay.wordpress.com/wedding-schedule-at-lourdes/church-requirements-for-marriage/
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aemcpa
Guest
“Confession. In order to celebrate the Sacrament of Matrimony in the state of grace, and to receive Holy Communion, the couple should make a good confession at least a week before the wedding ceremony. They are allowed anywhere they wish to have confession.”
This is a restatement of Canon 1065§2 of the Code of Canon Law: “To receive the sacrament of marriage fruitfully, spouses are urged especially to approach the sacraments of penance and of the Most Holy Eucharist.”
This applies throughout the whole Church, but it does not impose a requirement.
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choliks
Guest
Like I said, I get your point. Local Churches here included it in their list of “requirements.”
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aemcpa
Guest
I’m glad that they do so.
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Sanctifiable
Guest
Thank you for your help and I would agree with that research because I lived it. I lived with my spouse for a long period before we got married and when we did marry things went downhill fast until our divorceGlad if I could be of any help!
Cohabitation can become a very tangled mess. According to research in to the statistics, those who cohabit have a increased chance of divorce. It is a very counter-intuitive result that many people even find it hard to believe after first hearing. Then there is the side-effect of scandalizing others in to thinking of cohabitation as a regular act before marriage.
No matter what your past, you are doing the right thing now. Will keep you in my prayers! Keep up the good fight!
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Sanctifiable
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Yes I will keep asking, thank you
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Sanctifiable
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I’ve never been married in the Catholic church but from what I know there is a long learning process that couples go through which is why I’m confused the priest didn’t make them correct their living situation, at the very minimum they are living under the same roof
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PatriceA
Guest
Well it would be speculation what the priest did or did not instruct and the instructions would be a private matter between he and the couple. He may very well have instructed them, they may not have followed. Or he may not have cared, not every priest will be thorough in their instructions to an engaged couple, not every couple takes the instructions to heart.
There is a learning process, you are correct, but it can vary from parish to parish, any where from a couple of meetings with the priest, to ongoing sessions with the priest and a mentoring a couple to a weekend retreat to just an afternoon of meetings.
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