Wedding question

[agapewolf]

I recently found out that a Bishop (who I’ve known to be orthodox- and not the Bishop of my city) celebrated a Marriage between a Catholic a non-Baptized person within a Mass, and not just the Liturgy of the Word.

I know Catholics, and Catholic marrying a Baptized person have that option. However, a Catholic marrying a non-Baptized person is not a Sacrament, and is not supposed to be in a Mass.

So, here’s the questions…

1. I’ve been searching and I can’t seem to find the references of where to find these instructions. GIRM or Canon Law? Can someone help?
2. Can a Bishop make a decision to do this? If so, then everything is fine. My concern is over. (Nothing I can do about it anyway).

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I recently found out that a Bishop (who I’ve known to be orthodox- and not the Bishop of my city) celebrated a Marriage between a Catholic a non-Baptized person within a Mass, and not just the Liturgy of the Word.

I know Catholics, and Catholic marrying a Baptized person have that option. However, a Catholic marrying a non-Baptized person is not a Sacrament, and is not supposed to be in a Mass.

So, here’s the questions…

1. I’ve been searching and I can’t seem to find the references of where to find these instructions. GIRM or Canon Law? Can someone help?
2. Can a Bishop make a decision to do this? If so, then everything is fine. My concern is over. (Nothing I can do about it anyway).

Generally you will find this in the Rite of Marriage. Yes, a bishop can make that decision , even a pastor can also, if the Catholic requests a Mass and the issue of non-Catholics and non-Baptized not being able to receive Holy Communion is dealt with.

 

[1ke]

I know Catholics, and Catholic marrying a Baptized person have that option. However, a Catholic marrying a non-Baptized person is not a Sacrament, and is not supposed to be in a Mass.

This is not correct. There is nothing the forbids this.

The Marriage Rite can take place on its own, or within the Mass. This applies whether the persons marrying are two Catholics, a Catholic and a baptized non-Catholic, or a Catholic and an unbaptized person.

 

[Miserissima]

As far as I understand, the celebrant doesn’t offer the Eucharist to the non-Catholic party or other non-Catholics in the congregation.

 

[agapewolf]

Offering the Eucharist is beside the point. Of course it shouldn’t happen, but thats not my question.

 

[tee_eff_em]

However, a Catholic marrying a non-Baptized person is not a Sacrament, and is not supposed to be in a Mass.

How do you know this?
Not the not-a-sacrament part; the not-supposed-to-be-in-a-Mass part

tee

 

[John_Lilburne]

I recently found out that a Bishop (who I’ve known to be orthodox- and not the Bishop of my city) celebrated a Marriage between a Catholic a non-Baptized person within a Mass, and not just the Liturgy of the Word.

I know Catholics, and Catholic marrying a Baptized person have that option. However, a Catholic marrying a non-Baptized person is not a Sacrament, and is not supposed to be in a Mass.

So, here’s the questions…

1. I’ve been searching and I can’t seem to find the references of where to find these instructions. GIRM or Canon Law? Can someone help?
2. Can a Bishop make a decision to do this? If so, then everything is fine. My concern is over. (Nothing I can do about it anyway).

My understanding is that this should not take place in the Mass. It has in the Rite of Marriage, Chapter III “Rite for Celebrating Marriage Between a Catholic and an Unbaptized Person”:
“If marriage is celebrated between a Catholic and unbaptized person (either a catechumen or a non-Christian), the rite may be performed in the church or some other suitable place.”
(The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, page 740).

The description of the ceremony that follows, in n. 55-66, is not part of a Mass.

 

[Miserissima]

At one time, the Catholic Encyclopedia said that,

"Nor may the nuptial Mass and blessing be held in cases of mixed marriages (mixta religio) inspite of any dispensation. According to the Con stitution “Etsi sanctissimus Dominus” of Pius IX (15 November, 1858), mixed marriages must be celebrated outside the church (in England and America this is understood as meaning outside the sanctuary and choir), without the blessing of the ring or of the spouses without any ecclesiastical rite or vestment, without proclamation of banns. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Volume X. Published 1911. New York: Robert Appleton Company. Nihil Obstat, October 1, 1911. From here.

But that was 1911. I also found a Time article citing that no mixed-marraige nuptutal Mass was part canon law as recently as 1963. However, the **newer **guidelines are as follows:

"A mixed marriage can take place with a Nuptial Mass. (The bishops’ statement [on the subject] added this caution: ‘To the extent that Eucharistic sharing is not permitted by the general discipline of the Church, this is to be considered when plans are being made to have the mixed marriage at Mass or not.’)(1995 Catholic Almanac, Huntington, IN: Our Sunday Visitor, 1995, 233-4).From here.

For further clarification, see Catholic Culture’s Dictionary Entry (emphasis mine):

NUPTIAL MASS: The Mass at which a Catholic is married. With a bishop’s permission, a nuptial Mass may be offered in a mixed marriage when the non-Catholic partner is baptized

. The ritual provides for the marriage to be performed after the Gospel and homily, with the nuptial blessing after the Lord’s Prayer, and a special blessing of bride and groom at the end of the Mass. Fr. John Hardon’s Modern Catholic Dictionary, © Eternal Life. From here.

So, the question is: was the non-Catholic party baptized in another faith, or not? If he was, there’s no cause for alarm. If he wasn’t, there’s definately a problem.

 

[agapewolf]

So, the question is: was the non-Catholic party baptized in another faith, or not? If he was, there’s no cause for alarm. If he wasn’t, there’s definately a problem.

No, that is not the question. I already stated the person was non-Baptized.

 

[puzzleannie]

I

1. I’ve been searching and I can’t seem to find the references of where to find these instructions. GIRM or Canon Law? Can someone help?
2. Can a Bishop make a decision to do this? If so, then everything is fine. My concern is over. (Nothing I can do about it anyway).

the bishop interprets and applies canon law in his diocese. It is highly likely, given that he has studied the GIRM and canon law intensively throughout his career, that he is more versed in the law than any of us, and highly likely that his decision and actions are made in light of that law. It is highly unlikely that a layperson whose career and vocation do not lie in the area of day to day application and interpretation of these laws is more knowledgeable than the bishop.

 

[agapewolf]

It was a visiting Bishop, not our own.

I wasn’t in anyway thinking I knew more than him, I was just asking about hot the hierachy worked, Thats all.

 

[1ke]

It was a visiting Bishop, not our own.

I wasn’t in anyway thinking I knew more than him, I was just asking about hot the hierachy worked, Thats all.

The current code of canon law does not forbid it. That is the long and the short of it.

 

[estesbob]

I recently found out that a Bishop (who I’ve known to be orthodox- and not the Bishop of my city) celebrated a Marriage between a Catholic a non-Baptized person within a Mass, and not just the Liturgy of the Word.

I know Catholics, and Catholic marrying a Baptized person have that option. However, a Catholic marrying a non-Baptized person is not a Sacrament, and is not supposed to be in a Mass.

So, here’s the questions…

1. I’ve been searching and I can’t seem to find the references of where to find these instructions. GIRM or Canon Law? Can someone help?
2. Can a Bishop make a decision to do this? If so, then everything is fine. My concern is over. (Nothing I can do about it anyway).

There is nothing whatsoever improper about this as long as permission was given, I once attended a wedding in a Catholic Church where a Jewish friend married a Catholic woman. I sat next to a Jewish woman who, alhough she attened, was not happy about the mixed marriage. During the procession in of the bride she turned to me and said" I expected them to play “O Vey Maria.”

 

[agapewolf]

There is nothing whatsoever improper about this as long as permission was given, I once attended a wedding in a Catholic Church where a Jewish friend married a Catholic woman. I sat next to a Jewish woman who, alhough she attened, was not happy about the mixed marriage. During the procession in of the bride she turned to me and said" I expected them to play “O Vey Maria.”

Permission from whom? He was the Bishop. The Bishop needed permission?

 

[estesbob]

Permission from whom? He was the Bishop. The Bishop needed permission?

I assume the bishop had/gave permission since he performed the wedding. As I said there is nothing improper about what was done as long as the procedures were followed.

 

[Leopard]

…she turned to me and said" I expected them to play “O Vey Maria.”

Rimshot! http://forums.secondcitizen.com/images/smilies/rimshot.gif