Wedding Questions

[Thunderbird]

I’m (mostly) speaking in hypotheticals here, as my significant other and I are only idly batting around the idea at this point.

To make a long story short, he lives in Brazil and is a Brazilian citizen. IF we decided to get married, he would most likely come to the US.

The issue is that he would have to apply for a K-1 visa, and if approved we would have to be married within those 90 days if we wanted the ceremony done in the US. Anyone that’s dealt with the US Gov’t knows that it’s nigh impossible to pin down an exact date for the paperwork to go through, and 90 days isn’t much time to get a good wedding going.

However, once you’re legally married, the spouse can stay in the US until you get an answer on your ‘green card.’

In a situation like that, would it be all right to have the marriage done via a JOP within the 90 days, then have a full-on ‘official’ wedding down the road?

 

[NHInsider]

Hmm. Interesting question, and I bet you get a range of answers.

Mine, FWIW, is that you could have a JOP marriage to satisfy the government, but continue to live apart/unmarried until you are able to have a sacramental wedding. The State doesn’t care if you have a sacrament or not. The Church isn’t bound by the State contract. So I think it would be fine. The only detail would be that at the church the priest/deacon would not include the words “by the power vested in me by the State of whatever . . .” (which I really think we should get out of doing the State’s business anyway, but that’s a another thread).

 

[PhilotheaZ]

My nephew ran into this question with his fiancee (he is a U.S. citizen, she is Canadian). She submitted her paperwork at a time when immigration problems were in the headlines, and the processing of her application was seriously delayed.

The six months lead time required by most parishes/dioceses is to allow for marriage preparation. My nephew and his fiancee made arrangements with his pastor well in advance, and did all the necessary preparatory work ahead of time. The pastor was flexible enough to agree to celebrate the marriage as soon as the immigration paperwork was processed.

The real scheduling issue would be for a reception hall if the places in your community have a long lead-time for reservations. But remember, the party is not the essential part. You could always get married within the 90-day window and then have the party afterward if necessary. (Or just have a simple reception in the church hall or at someone’s home the day of the wedding.)

As for the JOP wedding, you could not consider yourselves married in the eyes of God and would have to keep separate households and refrain from marital relations until married in the Church.

 

[Thunderbird]

Thanks for the responses, guys.

NH, that’s sort of what I was thinking… and even if we have to end up co-habitating (to keep the sailing smooth for his citizenship), we would have separate rooms until the real marriage happened.

Philo, it’s not so much making the reservations that would be the issue… the problem would lay in getting all our friends and family in town on what is pretty short notice. 90 days isn’t a heck of a lot of time for his family to get their passports together (if they haven’t already), plan for time off from work, etc. And, yeah, we could just invite them to the reception but we’d never hear the end of it.

Just out of curiosity, how long did it take for your nephew and his now-wife to get the paperwork pushed through? Was she living in Canada at the time or was she already in the US on a different visa?

 

[Rocco1]

Philo, it’s not so much making the reservations that would be the issue… the problem would lay in getting all our friends and family in town on what is pretty short notice. 90 days isn’t a heck of a lot of time for his family to get their passports together (if they haven’t already), plan for time off from work, etc. And, yeah, we could just invite them to the reception but we’d never hear the end of it.

Why do you have to get married with only 90 days notice - why not make plans 6 or more months out (like two US citizens planning a wedding)? You could book the church, plan the reception, give your guests time to make travel arrangements, etc. while he is in Brazil. To meet Church requirements, you could perform pre-cana with him in Brazil, or he could come to the US for a week or two and fulfill the requirements during his “vacation”.

Then just have him permanently move to the US 90 days or so before the ceremony.

 

[lizaanne]

I’ve been through this myself, my husband is from England. I STRONGLY suggest you go to www.visajourney.com and learn everything you possibly can about the K-1 visa process. Join the forum there and ask questions. You are not going to get a lot of help regarding the Catholic Church aspect, but everything else you will ever want to know about immigration can be found there.

We were able to plan our wedding date with no problems. We explained to our priest and to the resturant where we had our reception planned that our date was tentative, based on when he would receive his visa. They were willing to work with me on this. I would not have booked with any place that would not be flexible. We had to have a luncheon reception, which was fine for us anyway, so that we had this level of flexibility. Once we were confirmed with immigration, we pulled the trigger on all our plans and everything fell into place perfectly.

We were engaged for about a year and a half. We had to wait out the immigration stuff, and also go through intense marriage prep due to our long distance circumstances. We completely understood the need for all of this and were happy to comply what what ever we needed to do to be together. During this time he came here to the States twice to visit and have meetings with our priest and go on the Engaged Encounter weekend.

We did not hire an immigration lawyer, I filed all documents myself, most people do. The lawyers I spoke with were extremely expensive, and one even told me to just have him come here illegally and he would sort it all out for a fee afterward. So be careful if you do decide to hire someone. But I don’t think it is necessary if there are no issues such as criminal records, children, etc.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions, but really go out to that site and learn everything you can. It is a long and stressful process, it is expensive, and it is not easy. But if being together for the rest of your lives is worth it, you will do what ever it takes to make that happen.

Good luck!!

~Liza

 

[lizaanne]

Why do you have to get married with only 90 days notice - why not make plans 6 or more months out (like two US citizens planning a wedding)? You could book the church, plan the reception, give your guests time to make travel arrangements, etc. while he is in Brazil. To meet Church requirements, you could perform pre-cana with him in Brazil, or he could come to the US for a week or two and fulfill the requirements during his “vacation”.

Then just have him permanently move to the US 90 days or so before the ceremony.

They must marry in the US within 90 days of the arrival here by the immigrant. That is the law.

~Liza

 

[Rocco1]

We were able to plan our wedding date with no problems. We explained to our priest and to the resturant where we had our reception planned that our date was tentative, based on when he would receive his visa. They were willing to work with me on this.

Oh, so it’s not like you can start the 90 day period at any time, but instead you request it and it starts whenever the government decides to let it start? That does make it tricky (in the post above, I assumed you just show up at the US consulate in Brazil, fill out a form, and get a 90-day temporary Visa same-day. I guess it’s more complicated than that)

You should still be able to work with a priest either in Brazil or the US to get the pre-cana and any necessary forms / permissions complete, right? That way the ceremony is ready to go as soon as he’s in the US, and then you can work with the church to find an open slot for the wedding when you know his arrival date. The reception, photographer, and travel plans would still be a problem, though.

 

[lizaanne]

Oh, so it’s not like you can start the 90 day period at any time, but instead you request it and it starts whenever the government decides to let it start? That does make it tricky (in the post above, I assumed you just show up at the US consulate in Brazil, fill out a form, and get a 90-day temporary Visa same-day. I guess it’s more complicated than that)

LOL!!! You have NO idea!!! Complicated doesn’t come close.

You should still be able to work with a priest either in Brazil or the US to get the pre-cana and any necessary forms / permissions complete, right? That way the ceremony is ready to go as soon as he’s in the US, and then you can work with the church to find an open slot for the wedding when you know his arrival date. The reception, photographer, and travel plans would still be a problem, though.

This is what we did between our two parishes.

~Liza

 

[lizaanne]

This should give you an idea of the process - this is our timeline:

Timelines:

July 28, 2004 - We email for the first time
Mar 19, 2005 - We meet for the first time
Mar 26, 2005 - Our engagement day in England
Sept 29, 2005 - Mailed I-129F
Sept 30, 2005 - Packet arrives at Lincoln, NE Post Office
Sept 30, 2005 - Packet is received and signed for at INS Express
Oct 06, 2005 - Received NOA-1
Oct 21, 2005 - Received NOA-2 via email (15 days!!)
Oct 26, 2005 - Recieved email notice of case going to NVC - BYE BYE NEBRASKA!!
Oct 27, 2005 - Received NOA-2 via snail mail
Nov 09, 2005 - Received case number via email - London here he comes!!!
Nov 10, 2005 - Received case number via snail mail.
Nov 25, 2005 - Received PACKET THREE!!!
Dec 6, 2005 - Returned Packet Three to the Embassy in London
Jan 9, 2006 - Scheduled medical appointment for January 16th
Jan 10, 2006 - Requested police report
Jan 16, 2006 - Medical appointment today
Feb 07, 2006 - Received police report
Feb 10, 2006 - Returned check list to embassy requesting interview
Apr 06, 2006 - INTERVIEW IN LONDON!!!
WE HAVE A VISA!!!
Apr 08, 2006 - Visa arrived by courier - yay!!! It’s really real!!

AOS Timeline

Sep 01, 2006 - Simon arrives in America
Sep 30, 2006 - We are married!
Oct 05, 2006 - Applied for SSN
Dec 09, 2006 - Mailed Petions/Applications for AOS, EAD, AP
Dec 11, 2006 - Package received at NE office
Dec 22, 2006 - Package received back at house - sent to wrong address and one check was wrong amount
Dec 23, 2006 - Resent package to the proper office, with the correct check amounts
Jan 02, 2007 - All Checks cashed by USCIS
Jan 02, 2007 - Received NOA's for all requests
Jan 10, 2007 - Received notice to go for biometrics
Jan 18, 2007 - Appointment for biometrics - completed successfully
Jan 30, 2007 - Received RFE - just when we thought it was all going so well...
Feb 08. 2007 - Returned RFE with requested documents
Feb 10, 2007 - Package received by UCSIS location in MO
Feb 23, 2007 - Case transfered to California office for processing
Mar 16, 2007 - Received Advance Parole in the mail
Mar 19, 2007 - Received EAD card in the mail from Missouri Service Center
May 30, 2007 - Notice mailed welcoming the new permanent resident.
Jun 07, 2007 - Received Green Card in the mail! YAY!!!!

Remove Conditions Timeline

Feb 03, 2009 – Receive reminder letter from USCIS to submit I-751
Mar 16, 2009 – Mail I-751 packet to USCIS in California
Mar 20, 2009 – USCIS cashed our check
Mar 24, 2009 – Received one year extension letter and confirmation of payment received
Apr 02, 2009 – Biometrics appointment letter received
Apr 13, 2009 – Biometrics appointment
Apr 13, 2009 – Biometrics completed as scheduled



~Liza

 

[Rocco1]

Does the Visa give dates (e.g. “You have from 90 days of September 1, 2006”) or are you allowed to chose when the 90 day window starts?

If they have 5 months from the time he gets his visa until the time he needs to arrive in the US to start the 90 day window (based on your timeline), it shouldn’t be much of a problem. That would give them 8 months from the date he gets his visa to start planning, which is tight but still enough time to plan a full wedding / reception. Meanwhile, they can take care of Church requirements and start planning parts of the reception not dependent on date while he’s going through the application process.

 

[lizaanne]

Does the Visa give dates (e.g. “You have from 90 days of September 1, 2006”) or are you allowed to chose when the 90 day window starts?

The clock starts ticking the date the immigrant enters the country.

If they have 5 months from the time he gets his visa until the time he needs to arrive in the US to start the 90 day window (based on your timeline), it shouldn’t be much of a problem. That would give them 8 months from the date he gets his visa to start planning, which is tight but still enough time to plan a full wedding / reception. Meanwhile, they can take care of Church requirements and start planning parts of the reception not dependent on date while he’s going through the application process.

If someone is not planning a massive and elaborate wedding this can certainly be done. It all depends on how much compromise the couple is willing to make. You may not be able to have THE PERFECT location of your dreams for your reception, or have every single last person there due to timing, but it all comes down to priorities. What’s more important - the party or the sacrament.

~Liza

 

[Thunderbird]

Liz - Thanks so much for your insight! This whole thing looks infinitely more complicated than I originally thought…which is saying a great deal since I already knew the process would be a circus. Also, I’m signing up for the other forum as I speak (er…type?).

If the 90 days begins when the immigrant in question enters the country, that will make things a lot more manageable. The main thing is that we would need his immediate family and my immediate family (mother, father, brothers and sisters). Everyone else is window dressing…but just getting those few people will be a bit of a trial.

As for how elaborate the wedding will be… well, it won’t be all that bad. As long as we have God, the church, the priest and the family, I’ll be happy.

…oh, and the groom would be nice, too.

As for Pre-Cana, I’m thinking that we might be able to utilize a bit of technology… Skype (aka video Instant Message) the meeting so we won’t have to do too much flying back and forth?

 

[lizaanne]

As for Pre-Cana, I’m thinking that we might be able to utilize a bit of technology… Skype (aka video Instant Message) the meeting so we won’t have to do too much flying back and forth?

Oh thank God for Skype!!! I know we would have never lasted so long apart if we had not had technology. Well, maybe, but it would have been far more painful that it was already!!

We did our FOCCUS testing review over Skype with our priest and the social worker that the parish where we were married uses for reviewing the test results. It worked out well for us - you just have to make sure your priest is tech-savvy or you may have problems. Some older priests are VERY leary about using technology to do something that normally is done face to face. We were very fortunate that our priest was from Poland and used technology to communicate with family back home all the time, so for him it was second nature.

~Liza

 

[T700]

Oh, so it’s not like you can start the 90 day period at any time, but instead you request it and it starts whenever the government decides to let it start? That does make it tricky (in the post above, I assumed you just show up at the US consulate in Brazil, fill out a form, and get a 90-day temporary Visa same-day. I guess it’s more complicated than that)

You should still be able to work with a priest either in Brazil or the US to get the pre-cana and any necessary forms / permissions complete, right? That way the ceremony is ready to go as soon as he’s in the US, and then you can work with the church to find an open slot for the wedding when you know his arrival date. The reception, photographer, and travel plans would still be a problem, though.

My wife is Filipino and I can’t even begin to describe how difficult it is. As for coming here for a “vacation”, many country’s nationals simply are not allowed to come to the US–period. My wife (then fiance) is a college graduate, medical professional, owned her own home, financially well off, and there was absolutely no way she could ever so much as set foot in the US prior to the year long process to get her fiance visa. That process included reams of papers, medical exams, and a grueling, nerve racking interview at the embassy.

Even now that we’ve been married 3+ years, the paper work continues. I just got done providing pictures, sworn statements, legal documents, insurance papers, and the like to prove that we are actually still husband and wife. Oh, and did I mention the thousands and thousands of dollars in expenses?

Don’t get me wrong. I love Claire and wouldn’t trade her for the world, but it is most certainly not an easy process.

Paul

 

[rick43235]

Boy, does this bring back the memories. Been there…done that!

Since it sounds like this is still in the “what-if” stage and that things are not yet set in stone, you should be aware that there are other options besides the K-1 visa. You could go the K-3 visa route. In that case, you would go to Brazil and get married there (presumably in the Church). In fact, there is yet another option (can’t remember the name of this visa) where you would get married there, and he would actually have his green card before he arrives in the U.S. It takes a little longer, but you would avoid having to go through the hassle of adjustment of status.

Regarding the idea of getting married by the civil authorities and living apart until you could satisfy the requirements for a church wedding: Remember that an immigrant here on a K-1 visa not only has to get married within 90 days of entering the U.S., but he is also required to apply for adjustment of status very soon thereafter. The application requires the immigrant to list all of his places and dates of residence since entering the U.S. Listing an address that is different from the sponsoring spouse raises red flags and rings alarm bells. In fact, anything that suggests that you were not living together as husband and wife would cause the authorities to suspect visa fraud, and would probably invite an examination that would be more intrusive than a body cavity search.

I also recommend visajourney.com. Lots of good info there.

Best of luck with the immigration process. Be prepared to fill out lots of forms and spend lots of money.

 

[lizaanne]

Even now that we’ve been married 3+ years, the paper work continues. I just got done providing pictures, sworn statements, legal documents, insurance papers, and the like to prove that we are actually still husband and wife. Oh, and did I mention the thousands and thousands of dollars in expenses?

Don’t get me wrong. I love Claire and wouldn’t trade her for the world, but it is most certainly not an easy process.

Paul

Sounds like you are just about at the same point we are in the process, we are in the middle of removing conditions right now as well.

It absolutely does matter where the immigrant is coming from when it comes to level of complexity and time. My husband is from England, and the US has a very friendly relationship with that country. But those from other countries, even some place like Brazil, often are scrutinized much more than others. I’m not even going to go into “fair or not fair” - it just is the way of the world, and I’m not about to question the reasoning of the government to know why they think it is important to be more inquisitive with some than they are with others. Call it the Catholic trust in me or whatever, I just take it as it comes. But the bottom line is that depending on where someone is coming from it can absolutely be more difficult, regardless of how upstanding they may be.

I agree - I would never not go through it for my husband, but it certainly is not easy or cheap. On top of immigration, include the cost of moving your entire life over an ocean.

~Liza

 

[Thunderbird]

So, um…how expensive are we talking here?

 

[4Squarebaby]

Boy, does this bring back the memories. Been there…done that!

Since it sounds like this is still in the “what-if” stage and that things are not yet set in stone, you should be aware that there are other options besides the K-1 visa. You could go the K-3 visa route. In that case, you would go to Brazil and get married there (presumably in the Church). In fact, there is yet another option (can’t remember the name of this visa) where you would get married there, and he would actually have his green card before he arrives in the U.S. It takes a little longer, but you would avoid having to go through the hassle of adjustment of status.

That is the CR-1. It used to take much longer then a K-3 but processing times have been cut. If you can stand a couple of extra months wait it is superior in my opinion because you don’t have to apply for adjustment of status at another $1000 fee and prove your relationship is for real all over again.

Regarding the idea of getting married by the civil authorities and living apart until you could satisfy the requirements for a church wedding: Remember that an immigrant here on a K-1 visa not only has to get married within 90 days of entering the U.S., but he is also required to apply for adjustment of status very soon thereafter. The application requires the immigrant to list all of his places and dates of residence since entering the U.S. Listing an address that is different from the sponsoring spouse raises red flags and rings alarm bells. In fact, anything that suggests that you were not living together as husband and wife would cause the authorities to suspect visa fraud, and would probably invite an examination that would be more intrusive than a body cavity search.

I also recommend visajourney.com. Lots of good info there.

Best of luck with the immigration process. Be prepared to fill out lots of forms and spend lots of money.

Actually I don’t think you are required to adjust the status if under a K-1. The K-1 remains in effect with a valid marriage within 90 days of stepping foot in the nation. Many couples delay filing for the AOS because relocation cost eat up all their budgeted funds then Uncle Sam demands another grand just to file. The alien spouse just can’t get a social security card, assuming one was not gotten in the maiden name before the marriage in the 90 period, a green card, nor exit and renter the country without adjusting status. And upon the death of the citizen spouse the non adjusted alien spouse can be deported.

In the fil/am community there are many message boards which also cover this area specific information. I know there are also Russian/American, Vietnamese/American
boards and latin(mostly Colombian/ American boards. A search might turn up some Brazilian/American boards and groups.

 

[4Squarebaby]

So, um…how expensive are we talking here?

Depending upon travel cost about $4000 to $5000 over a traditional relationship.