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adrift
Guest
The article you quote is very good. However you should have included the paragraph before the one you quoted
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clem456
Guest
Thanks for you witness to the faith,
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Cristiano
Guest
Name calling does not make any friends and the I wonder if you understand that the Church is the mystical body of Christ. It is objective heretical thinking to separate them, it is pretending that the Church is a human institution.
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ToBeWedBarb
Guest
I talked to my dad last night (he is usually the more calm of the two) and told him that I love him and respect him, but that I need to be married in my own faith. I said that it would break my heart if he and Mom did not attend, but ultimately I know that he has to do what he feels is right and that while I can’t promise that it won’t cause friction if they avoid my wedding (I’ll be honest - I will be terribly embarrassed and my in-laws will probably feel that it is a rejection of their son and their family), I will do my best to accept their will.
As far as honoring my parents, I don’t think that means bending to their will or obeying them in all things, as I am an adult woman who has been supporting herself for several years. I think honoring them means hearing their perspective and respecting it and giving them the space to make the choices they feel are necessary, and then not badmouthing them about town about it. I do not see anything dishonorable about telling my parents that I hear them and respect their opinion, but that I disagree in both my heart and mind.
My dad basically said that he has to support Mom as his wife. I said that I understood that ultimately she’s his spouse and they have to stick together. I said that it would be great if he could talk to her and at least get her to agree to come to the wedding and sit with the family so as not to make a scene with what would be their VERY obvious absence. I mean, it’s not like I’m getting married in an Elvis chapel although sometimes you’d think that’s why my mom believes. Clearly this is wearing on my dad and he said he feels stuck between his “kid and his wife and his church.” I told him just to pray about it and that things will become clearer. We decided not to discuss the topic for a week to let everyone cool off and get a break from the constant conversations.
My fiance has been great through all of this. He said if it would make me happy, he’d marry me in my parents’ church. I just don’t think I can do that.
Thank you everyone for your insight and opinions.
As far as honoring my parents, I don’t think that means bending to their will or obeying them in all things, as I am an adult woman who has been supporting herself for several years. I think honoring them means hearing their perspective and respecting it and giving them the space to make the choices they feel are necessary, and then not badmouthing them about town about it. I do not see anything dishonorable about telling my parents that I hear them and respect their opinion, but that I disagree in both my heart and mind.
My dad basically said that he has to support Mom as his wife. I said that I understood that ultimately she’s his spouse and they have to stick together. I said that it would be great if he could talk to her and at least get her to agree to come to the wedding and sit with the family so as not to make a scene with what would be their VERY obvious absence. I mean, it’s not like I’m getting married in an Elvis chapel although sometimes you’d think that’s why my mom believes. Clearly this is wearing on my dad and he said he feels stuck between his “kid and his wife and his church.” I told him just to pray about it and that things will become clearer. We decided not to discuss the topic for a week to let everyone cool off and get a break from the constant conversations.
My fiance has been great through all of this. He said if it would make me happy, he’d marry me in my parents’ church. I just don’t think I can do that.
Thank you everyone for your insight and opinions.
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Vico
Guest
"Children, obey your parents in the Lord…" is very specific to just this situation.
You do not believe Colossians 3:20, Ephesians 6:1-3. Proverbs 15:5.
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maltmom
Guest
Barb, I think you are handling all of this very well. If the time comes and they don’t attend at least you can explain it to your FH’s family. That way they’d understand that it has nothing to do with them rejecting their son and family. It’s a religious belief that they are taking a hard stance on. That should help ease some of the tension on that side.
If they don’t show I know you may feel embarrassed, but don’t. This will be their choice and one that they will probably regret in years to come. If they do go, I doubt anyone at your wedding is going to analyze the fact that they are Catholic and whether you should be married in the Catholic church or not.
If they don’t show I know you may feel embarrassed, but don’t. This will be their choice and one that they will probably regret in years to come. If they do go, I doubt anyone at your wedding is going to analyze the fact that they are Catholic and whether you should be married in the Catholic church or not.
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ToBeWedBarb
Guest
But I am not a child anymore. I am an adult woman. When I was a child, and living in my parents’ home, I did as my parents asked.
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adrift
Guest
I believe what you are doing is a mistake. I also believe that to go through with a Catholic wedding when you don’t believe is a mistake.
You are an adult, an adult child. You will always be your parents child. It is nice that you talked to your father but is it fair to your mother? I don’t think you are trying to make them take sides but I think that is the result. Why is it that you can’t accept that what they believe is an important as what you believe? If you accepted their beliefs than you would shrug off them being at your wedding. You would come to terms that they would not be at something they consider sinful. I am not sure you understand their point of view.
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adrift
Guest
It is an emotional subject and when emotions reigns it results in ad hominem statemnets instead of reason. I don’t believe that Church is understood.
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daisybee
Guest
Easy, easy…
The tone here seems to be on the verge of developing into one that is harsh.
“Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence…” (1 Peter 3:15-16a)
The tone here seems to be on the verge of developing into one that is harsh.
“Always be ready to give an explanation to anyone who asks you for a reason for your hope, but do it with gentleness and reverence…” (1 Peter 3:15-16a)
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Cristiano
Guest
You are correct, this thread is not about what the Church teaches because the parents have it right and the future bride has it wrong. Does it make a difference? No, both the parents and the bride will stick to their guns and I can accept that. What I do also understand is that the OP made a clear point that her change of Church was based on feelings and not on religious understanding while her parents stick to their understanding as they did for decades. What it is really interesting that she did not address my question in regard to the sacrament of confirmation being a promise to God too, it seems to me that to her some promises can be discarded and others cannot.
Now the young woman feelings come into play again and I am also sure that her parents feelings are into play too. On her side this really has nothing to do with understanding religious beliefs because if it then she would have accepted the parents not participating to the marriage. Her parents are also probably acting on very conflicted emotions and they try to discern using the Church teachings. The main problem is the here there is a big misconception of what Christian love is and feelings are. I see a lot of discussions about feelings and Church teachings but I do not see a strong focus based on Christian love, including her and her parents.
Christian love and actions must be based on truth thus Church teachings; however, there is much more than the Code of Canon Law. While the CCL cannot be discounted at all all the Catholics must be aware that we still need to stick to the virtues at all times and I do not see that happening. It looks to me that the parents are not really following the approach of Caritas in Veritate. If I look at the description of how things evolved and how people behave, I think that everybody has to do some growing up, including future bride and her parents. What I see as silliness is that now the parents are using emotional blackmail to to force the daughter to do something that does not make sense and I see the daughter playing all the emotional cards to have the marriage her way. At one point if they were all mature they would agree to disagree and they would realize that respecting other people does not imply respecting their ideas.
If I were in the young bride position I would proceed with my own weeding plans and I would understand that her parents might not participate, I would also not be resentful. If I were in the parents position I would probably attend without walking the bride and any other form of active participation. It looks to me that the parents dropped the ball eight years in advance and now they are rushing to make everything perfect like nothing happened.
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Vico
Guest
So when you were not an adult, your parents gave you instruction, and through the
Church also. So we honor our parents, through heeding those instructions given “in the Lord” (what is righteous) through the whole of our lives, not only as children. It does not express charity to dishonor them.
Proverbs 15:5:
A fool laugheth at the instruction of his father: but he that regardeth reproofs shall become prudent. In abundant justice there is the greatest strength: but the devices of the wicked shall be rooted out.
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daisybee
Guest
I really think we are starting to beat the OP over head with some of these points, which are being reiterated multiple times…instead of just presenting the teaching and asking questions of the OP in a spirit of curiosity and understanding, the tone here is starting to become accusatory.
A guideline for engaging in these types of discussion is to gauge how open the other person is to becoming involved in the discussion. The more open the person is, the more that can be said, and vice versa.
It sounds like the OP is not really open to more discussion at this point, and so I see no need to provoke the OP with accusations. She understands our position on the matter.
It doesn’t seem that there is much more that can be said on this thread. Many people have weighed in and Church teaching has been presented.
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clem456
Guest
This is how you honor your parents:
I would be proud to have this woman as my daughter and would joyfully participate in her wedding.
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Elizium23
Guest
No, the OP has made it clear that she has her choice and she is sticking to it, and this is pretty much one of those threads where people announce “I am leaving the Catholic Church to go be a Methodist.” Those threads were banned in the past, and I can see why.
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iloveangels
Guest
I agree. This is starting to look like beating a dead horse.
You know, people can leave the Catholic church. They do. Force and intimidation doesn’t work. I know that’s hard for some people to accept but it’s true. We, as Catholics, have to stop behaving this way and find a better way to understand this and deal with it for ourselves, if not for others. What we’re doing is counterproductive.
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dixieagle
Guest
Even if we feel that the OP’s rejection of the Catholic faith of her parents is sad and a mistake (and I certainly do) the point is that she is very much an adult, at the age of 27, and has no obligation to obey them.
She is very distressed by this disagreement with her parents. We can only pray for all involved and hope that their family is not torn apart by it.
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Vico
Guest
Honor is the issue.
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iloveangels
Guest
What???
Unless the couple is from some sort of middle eastern enclave, honestly, honor is not likely to be the real issue in this day and age in the USA.
I think what was meant by “family torn apart” is that people get all bent out of shape when they get into fights and then they don’t get around to apologizing. And it sounds like the parents are having trouble recognizing the autonomy of their grown daughter, and this is sort of bringing that pre-existing problem into bright focus. This happens too.
And maybe there’s a little guilt or something too, you know…
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Vico
Guest
I understand what you are saying. I believe that is a different issue. The one I mention is about the command to Honor Thy Father and Mother (from Exodus) and referred to later in the Gospels. It involves obedience as a child and respect for parents always, and heeding their wisdom (not every thing is wisdom given by parents), that is, what is in harmony with the instruction of the Church. For one raised Catholic we also learn this is the respect for all authority of the Church, in the laws of the Church. It brings grief on our parents when we go against this. Not as a external formality merely.
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