Wedding showers, receptions, and so on

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I’ve seen raised on these boards several times and addressed numerously by apologists in their q&a forum (where, in fact, an apologist’s recently posted answer inspired this thread) the issue of attending parties or celebrations of gay civil unions, gay marriages, and gay anniversaries, gay wedding showers…the list goes on.

It has been posed that because the Church does not recognize gay civil unions, one’s attendance at events like these would somehow be a motion of acceptance which would conflict with the Church’s teaching. Is it really?

Another unavoidable issue is the problem of declining these invitations. A simple “No, thank you,” seems rude and tactless. However, “No. Thanks. My conservative religion doesn’t condone your gay behaviors and so precludes my celebration of those very behaviors” seems, while candid, even more coarse. It also poses a number of social problems. For example, I happen to work in the music industry in which a great number of individuals–individuals in high positions whose friendships would be beneficial to me and to my career–are gay. I also have a large number of very close gay friends. They would be deeply offended if I couldn’t make it to an event of this kind of importance to them. Am I expected to break not only social but professional ties over a simple invitation?
 
We speak truth with love…

And just as the early Christians faced with aspects of “culture” around them that was contrary to truth and love held fast to their Faith and did not approve or cooperate in the evil around them but professed their Faith …so too we Christians of our age (which is getting more similar to theirs all the time…) are to stand fast and say:

“I am a Christian”.

earlychristians.org/testimonies_martyrs/scillitan_saints.html

Living the Yes of our baptism…our Yes to Christ (which involves certain no’s…)

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20060108_battesimo_en.html (read past the beginning…you will see the text I intend here)

Standing fast indeed as a sign of loving and truthful contradiction (indeed the sign of the cross)…as Paul tells us we are to hate what is evil and hold fast to what is good. Doing the truth with love.
 
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

1868 Sin is a personal act. Moreover, we have a responsibility for the sins committed by others when we cooperate in them:
  • by participating directly and voluntarily in them;
  • by ordering, advising, praising, or approving them;
  • by not disclosing or not hindering them when we have an obligation to do so;
  • by protecting evil-doers.
 
Now does this mean that one has to “be in your face” in ones approach…no of course not…one must use prudence and such an approach can be counterproductive at times even.

But one needs to avoid approving etc… while still being friendly etc…

(I have worked with persons of such a tendency…“a couple” indeed…long ago. I told them clearly that I very much respected their persons etc…and even liked them…but that I do not accept their choices in that area (I went into things prob more than that…budding theologian I was then)…I told them this in a very loving and humble way…then went on with working together…careful not to give any approval etc while working together…just as I would not show approval to a man and woman cohabitating or other objectively gravely disorder situations…love the person…but in truth)
 
“I am aware of the ways in which charity has been and continues to be misconstrued and emptied of meaning, with the consequent risk of being misinterpreted, detached from ethical living and, in any event, undervalued. In the social, juridical, cultural, political and economic fields — the contexts, in other words, that are most exposed to this danger — it is easily dismissed as irrelevant for interpreting and giving direction to moral responsibility. Hence the need to link charity with truth not only in the sequence, pointed out by Saint Paul, of veritas in caritate (Eph 4:15), but also in the inverse and complementary sequence of caritas in veritate. Truth needs to be sought, found and expressed within the “economy” of charity, but charity in its turn needs to be understood, confirmed and practised in the light of truth. In this way, not only do we do a service to charity enlightened by truth, but we also help give credibility to truth, demonstrating its persuasive and authenticating power in the practical setting of social living. This is a matter of no small account today, in a social and cultural context which relativizes truth, often paying little heed to it and showing increasing reluctance to acknowledge its existence.”

–Pope Benedict XVI (vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/encyclicals/documents/hf_ben-xvi_enc_20090629_caritas-in-veritate_en.html)
 
passus said:
I’ve seen raised on these boards several times and addressed numerously by apologists in their q&a forum (where, in fact, an apologist’s recently posted answer inspired this thread) the issue of attending parties or celebrations of gay civil unions, gay marriages, and gay anniversaries, gay wedding showers…the list goes on.

It has been posed that because the Church does not recognize gay civil unions, one’s attendance at events like these would somehow be a motion of acceptance which would conflict with the Church’s teaching. Is it really?

Another unavoidable issue is the problem of declining these invitations. A simple “No, thank you,” seems rude and tactless. However, “No. Thanks. My conservative religion doesn’t condone your gay behaviors and so precludes my celebration of those very behaviors” seems, while candid, even more coarse. It also poses a number of social problems. For example, I happen to work in the music industry in which a great number of individuals–individuals in high positions whose friendships would be beneficial to me and to my career–are gay. I also have a large number of very close gay friends. They would be deeply offended if I couldn’t make it to an event of this kind of importance to them. Am I expected to break not only social but professional ties over a simple invitation?
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To be short: yes, you should attend these events. That does not mean you must condone what they are doing, but you should respect what they are doing nevertheless.
As an atheist, I do attend Chatholic weddings and funerals because I respect my friends’ choices. I would also attend a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist… ceremony if asked.
Youy could say something like, “Although as a Catholic I do not agree with your choices, I respect them and wish you the best”. you connot force people to adopt your lifestyle.
 
passus said:
I’ve
Another unavoidable issue is the problem of declining these invitations. A simple “No, thank you,” seems rude and tactless. ?
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thankfully we always have conventional etiquette to back us up
the method for declining invitations is always the same
Mr. and Mrs. Joe Smith regret they cannot attend the event (not your event it is all third person) on June 22.

never complain, never explain (Hank II)
 
puzzleannie said:
thankfully we always have conventional etiquette to back us up
the method for declining invitations is always the same
Mr. and Mrs. Joe Smith regret they cannot attend the event (not your event it is all third person) on June 22.

never complain, never explain (Hank II)
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Very few formal invitations like this are rarely issued anymore, puzzleannie, except for traditional weddings. The type of situation I’m referring to would almost always be a personal invite.
 
passus said:
Very few formal invitations like this are rarely issued anymore, puzzleannie, except for traditional weddings. The type of situation I’m referring to would almost always be a personal invite.
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yes but you can always return to formal etiquette to regret that is the beauty of it

if you still feel you must respond in person, simply say I am sorry we can’t make it. we will be thinking of you

you don’t have to say what those thoughts will be

less verbiage is more honest
 
puzzleannie said:
yes but you can always return to formal etiquette to regret that is the beauty of it
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Erm…no. I think that seems arrogant and stand-offish and socially out of place. I’d be more likely to offend someone with my formal etiquette.
 
passus said:
Erm…no. I think that seems arrogant and stand-offish and socially out of place. I’d be more likely to offend someone with my formal etiquette.
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well somebody who is offended by formal etiquette, which is the extreme of social courtesy, is somebody who is already a problem relationship
 
puzzleannie said:
well somebody who is offended by formal etiquette, which is the extreme of social courtesy, is somebody who is already a problem relationship
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No, it doesn’t mean there’s a problem relationship. It’s simply that formal etiquette is no longer the extreme of social courtesy. Social courtesy and convention changes and evolves.

I just want to point out that I took the time to address your comments because this discussion is not only a moral one, but a practical and social one and how to handle this situation is considerably important.
 
belorg said:
To be short: yes, you should attend these events. That does not mean you must condone what they are doing, but you should respect what they are doing nevertheless.
As an atheist, I do attend Chatholic weddings and funerals because I respect my friends’ choices. I would also attend a Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist… ceremony if asked.
Youy could say something like, “Although as a Catholic I do not agree with your choices, I respect them and wish you the best”. you connot force people to adopt your lifestyle.
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I understand that your not a Catholic (you note you are an atheist) so you will not understand perhaps some of what is involved here.

The issue here in the persons question is not about forcing others to live in one way or another…but about approving something we should not. Attending etc is a kind of approval…and an act contrary to ourselves and to truth and indeed to charity.

I can not say “I respect your choices” in terms of homosexual “unions”. Such would be relativistic in the least. And dishonest. For as a Christian while I respect each person I can not respect all their choices…especially when gravely disordered (as is homosexuality, adultery, grand theft auto, murder, etc)

We can ot say to someone…congrates on your marriage when it is not actually a marriage …(I am speaking here of the homosexual couple…we recognize the valid marriages of other religions between one man and one woman…and while we can not necessarily “participate” (chant prayers etc to various gods…) we do recognize theirs marriage to be a “human valid marriage” (though not a Sacrament it is still a natural marriage).
 
The question seems silly to me. No one has any obligation to attend any celebration that they don’t want to attend. An invitation is an invitation, not a summons. You do not have to give any reason, you just have to be polite in your refusal if you think that you ought not to attend. If you are asked for a reason, they are the ones who have committed a social faux pas, not you. As simple “No, thank you” is not rude or tactless. It is the social norm for refusing attendance.

I understand that in the days of social networking and cell phones, people think that every detail of their lives ought to be shared. People think that if I do not answer my phone when they call, I am being rude. People think that because they want some bit of information from me, that they ought to have it and have it immediately. Some people feel entitled to information which is, ultimately, private. It is my decision who I want to talk to, and when. It is my decision what personal information is public and what is private. It is terribly rude to demand answers to personal questions and indeed, inquiring into my social life- what invitations I have or have not accepted- is personal. In most circles, it is still considered inappropriate to discuss religion or politics. Invitations or polite regrets, which might brush on both of these, are the reason the rules of etiquette exist.

That said, I am not entirely convinced that you have a moral obligation to refuse attendance.
 
Beth_Cecilia said:
That said, I am not entirely convinced that you have a moral obligation to refuse attendance.
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Can we discuss this further? What substantiation do individuals furnish to support their convictions that attendance is wrong? How does attendance at a celebration condone a behavior?
 
passus said:
Can we discuss this further? What substantiation do individuals furnish to support their convictions that attendance is wrong? How does attendance at a celebration condone a behavior?
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I have given it above…

BC
 
The attending of a wedding is the celebration of a such “union”…which involves approval…gifts etc…

such is its very nature…

and in the case of even “attempted” weddings (which can not of course actually happen) such is the same…a sign of approval etc…

even the wording of the question:

“How does attendance at a celebration condone a behavior?”

What do you do when you “celebrate”?
 
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