Wedding without Dispensation

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The priest that did this is now deceased, the Pastor just did a search for me
 
Loretta208 said:
The priest that did this is now deceased, the Pastor just did a search for me
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That the pastor didn’t find anything has little bearing on if a dispensation was received. Unless the couple is stating otherwise, it should be assumed that the priest took care of things himself as is often done.
 
I am familiar with several nullity cases where this happened. My previous pastor routinely neglected to get permission/dispensation. In the case of the Catholic/unbaptized marriages, it created a lack of form.
 
Thanks JulianN that is what I thought…but hard to relate to someone that they really weren’t married in the eyes of the Church for many years
 
JulianN said:
I am familiar with several nullity cases where this happened. My previous pastor routinely neglected to get permission/dispensation. In the case of the Catholic/unbaptized marriages, it created a lack of form.
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Not a lack of form. A defect of form. It’s different. But this would be a impediment of disparity of cult, not a defect of form.

A defect of form happens when the priest, deacon, or lay person receiving the vows does not have faculties or delegation to do so, when consent is not received by the proper party from both parties, or when vows or consent is omitted from the ceremony.

A lack of form means the person did not observe canonical form or receive a dispensation from it.

In the case of a Catholic marrying an unbaptized party without dispensation, the marriage would be invalid due to the impediment of disparity of cult. This could be rectified by the bishop granting radical sanation.
 
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Isn’t lack of form where a Catholic marries in, say, a civil ceremony?
 
But from what you’ve said, that’s not what happened. You said a non-Catholic, who was baptized, married a Catholic in a Catholic ceremony before a Catholic priest. This situation requires permission, but not dispensation. There is a difference. That which requires a permission does not result in an invalid marriage if done without the permission. That which requires a dispensation does result in an invalid marriage.

-Fr ACEGC
 
JulianN said:
I am familiar with several nullity cases where this happened. My previous pastor routinely neglected to get permission/dispensation. In the case of the Catholic/unbaptized marriages, it created a lack of form.
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Lack of form is when a Catholic tries to marry civilly or in another religion. The form of a Catholic marriage is legitiate.
 
Loretta208 said:
Thanks JulianN that is what I thought…but hard to relate to someone that they really weren’t married in the eyes of the Church for many years
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You should not relay such information because (a) it simply isn’t your place and (b) it is not true if the non-Catholic in question is baptized.

Permission for mixed marriage does not create a defect if it was not received.

In either case, baptized or unbaptized, a record of the dispensation or permission will be located in the curia office if it was sought/given. So, your pastor should contact the curia office before assuming something based on lack of papers in the local parish file.

And, lastly, a couple who has such a impediment due to lack of dispensation need never be told. The pastor should talk to his bishop and apply radical sanation to such a situation. That’s one of the things it is for.
 
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I misspoke. I meant defect of form.
It turned out that our pastor had never requested permission nor dispensations. We had several nullity cases that moved quickly from an expectation of a full case.
 
JulianN said:
I misspoke. I meant defect of form.
It turned out that our pastor had never requested permission nor dispensations. We had several nullity cases that moved quickly from an expectation of a full case.
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But it isn’t a defect of form.

If permission for mixed marriage isn’t received, it is illicit but valid. Not invalid.

If dispensation for disparity of cult is not received, this is an invalid marriage due to impediment of disparity of cult, not defect of form.
 
Well, if both parties are baptized, that isn’t true. The marriage is valid, if not licit.

And I wouldn’t be bringing this up.
 
1ke said:
Permission for mixed marriage does not create a defect if it was not received.
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I believe that would depend on when the marriage took place. Before the 1983 code, wasn’t a dispensation required for a mixed marriage. I needed one in 1975.
 
I’ve seen this type of thing before. A couple in my parish presented for marriage. The bride was divorced. Her original marriage was recorded in our parish register. The problem? She got married in a Protestant church by a Protestant minister and there was no notation of a dispensation from form.

Search the marriage file, nothing.
A search was done at the diocese, nothing.

The priest who was present but did not receive the consent had died. Did he think that as long as he was present the dispensation from form wasn’t needed? No way to know. The marriage was deemed invalid due to lack of form and she went on to marry in the Church.
 
Priest needs to inform them, and make it “not a big deal”.

My dear friend found out, after 20 years of marriage, that the judge made some error and she was not actually civilly married. They and all of their friends had a good laugh and planned an impromptu “wedding” on the day they were civilly married, great party!
 
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