Weight of sin

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srferdave

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I had a conversation with a baptist about the seriousness of sin. She said that all sin is equally the same in the eyes of God. I said no there is grave sin and venial sin. And she said, “So then the bible is wrong?”. And I said “where does it say that I am wrong in the bible?” And she said she will get back to me. But does anyone know where it talks about this in the bible so I can be prepared when she comes back to me?
 
I did a quick search in the Ask an Apologist section and I found this thread for you.
 
You should read this part of the CCC as well. A Baptist will not consider the CCC to be an authority, but you can find references there. Good luck. 😉
 
Do they not have 1 John 5:15-17 in their bibles?? It’s pretty clear there that not all sin is the same…teachccd 🙂
 
This may help… gotquestions.org/mortal-sin-venial.html
Of course. this is taking the tact that the bible does not teach this but you now have the non-catholic argument for information.

But when it talks about Venial sins as one that can be forgiven, it’s not like Mortal are not forgivable… be careful how you state anything as maybe not being forgivable since that will shut their ears down right there.

Good luck
 
srferdave said:
I had a conversation with a baptist about the seriousness of sin. She said that all sin is equally the same in the eyes of God. I said no there is grave sin and venial sin. And she said, “So then the bible is wrong?”. And I said “where does it say that I am wrong in the bible?” And she said she will get back to me. But does anyone know where it talks about this in the bible so I can be prepared when she comes back to me?
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This reminds me of two Baptist friends of mine from 30 years ago. They could not agree on this. They also went to the same church. I concluded, maybe wrongly, that their church’s teaching was not clear on this subject.
 
srferdave said:
I had a conversation with a baptist about the seriousness of sin. She said that all sin is equally the same in the eyes of God. I said no there is grave sin and venial sin. And she said, “So then the bible is wrong?”. And I said “where does it say that I am wrong in the bible?” And she said she will get back to me. But does anyone know where it talks about this in the bible so I can be prepared when she comes back to me?
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Has your friend gotten back to you? It’s always interesting to hear “Biblical support” for things that contradict Church teachings.
 
Cari said:
Has your friend gotten back to you? It’s always interesting to hear “Biblical support” for things that contradict Church teachings.
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Not yet. But I will let everyone know when she does.
 
← update →

I did get the chance to talk to her again. She didn’t come back with any proof of her theory. But I thought I would recite 1 John 5 to her. She came back and said deadly could mean murder. To me it clearly does not mean murder. But I did not completely know how to prove that to her. But from that she said that there can be 2 interpretations. I said NO, there can only be one truth, an author does not write something in order to convey 2 different things. Then she said that not everything in the Bible was said by God. Then I said, but the Bible is inspired by God, nothing in the Bible is fallible. She couldn’t really respond to that. But I would like to know how to prove that the word deadly in 1 John 5 does not mean murder. Does anyone know?
 
Taken from here:
16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
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“…there is sin that does not lead to death” refers to spiritual death (damnation). Sin that “leads to death” is mortal and sin that does not “lead to death” is venial.
 
Caesar517 said:
Taken from here:

“…there is sin that does not lead to death” refers to spiritual death (damnation). Sin that “leads to death” is mortal and sin that does not “lead to death” is venial.
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How come the wording is different in the Bible that you provided me and the Bible i was looking at (the New American Bible). Shouldn’t all be the same?
 
srferdave said:
I had a conversation with a baptist about the seriousness of sin. She said that all sin is equally the same in the eyes of God. I said no there is grave sin and venial sin. And she said, “So then the bible is wrong?”. And I said “where does it say that I am wrong in the bible?” And she said she will get back to me. But does anyone know where it talks about this in the bible so I can be prepared when she comes back to me?
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I think what our sister in the Lord meant was that Christ died for our every sin… even small sins, or what ever you want to call them, nailed Him to the Cross…
That fact is much more important than picking an idle debate about categorizing this and that act…
 
GraceDK said:
I think what our sister in the Lord meant was that Christ died for our every sin… even small sins, or what ever you want to call them, nailed Him to the Cross…
That fact is much more important than picking an idle debate about categorizing this and that act…
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I understand that there are things in the church that are much more important. But I don’t think that means we should not try to understand the smaller details. We should try to understand every aspect of our faith whether it be big or small.
 
srferdave said:
How come the wording is different in the Bible that you provided me and the Bible i was looking at (the New American Bible). Shouldn’t all be the same?
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check out the available ones on that site. No, not all bibles are the same. All english versions “loose something in translation.” That is why we have to rely on those scholars who understand the meanings and background of the original writings to help us understand the contexual meaning of the scriptures.

Something the Baptist friend may be missing.
 
srferdave said:
I understand that there are things in the church that are much more important. But I don’t think that means we should not try to understand the smaller details. We should try to understand every aspect of our faith whether it be big or small.
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Agreed… but in order to have a meaningful dialog with a non-catholic we gotta know what that person is saying.
Is she saying that Jesus died for all my sins so I should not belittle any sin… or is she saying there is no difference in sin.
What I am saying is that we have to understand the point in question in order to give an answer.
Imagine you tell a non-catholic that we dont believe all sin leads to death/ is death sin and she goes away saying to her congregation: “them Catholics dont believe in sin and that the penalty payed for them all is the Crucifixion/death of Christ who indeed died for all sins…”
its easy to misunderstand a Catholic concept such as “mortal sin”… and easy for a Catholic to assume that this word is spelled out in the Bible and does not need an explanation.
As a former protestant I know all the traps of such discussions where two people dont speak the same language, so to speak.
I am sure you agree on that…
 
Yes I agree. I think I am having a hard time understanding of what you mean when you say
Is she saying that Jesus died for all my sins so I should not belittle any sin… or is she saying there is no difference in sin.
What I am saying is that we have to understand the point in question in order to give an answer.
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I don’t quite understand how this quote relates to deadly sins meaning murder. Can you help explain this to me? I want to make sure she understands what we understand. Thanks
 
srferdave said:
Yes I agree. I think I am having a hard time understanding of what you mean when you say

I don’t quite understand how this quote relates to deadly sins meaning murder. Can you help explain this to me? I want to make sure she understands what we understand. Thanks
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In short: Jesus died for all sins.
venial and mortal, small and big… all of them He took to the cross and all of them seperately could sent you to hell.

While this is true there is also a valid category of mortal and venial sin comitted by man…

My point was only that you make clear what you are talking about so your friend does not think that you mean Jesus did not die for all sins, when you merely say that there is mortal and venial sin.
 
srferdave said:
I had a conversation with a baptist about the seriousness of sin. She said that all sin is equally the same in the eyes of God. I said no there is grave sin and venial sin. And she said, “So then the bible is wrong?”. And I said “where does it say that I am wrong in the bible?” And she said she will get back to me. But does anyone know where it talks about this in the bible so I can be prepared when she comes back to me?
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**The Bible clearly teaches that there is mortal sin and venial sin, although, depending on translation, the term ‘mortal’ may or may not be used, much less ‘venial’.

1 John 5:16-17 says: “If anyone sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those who sin is not mortal. I do not say that one is to pray for that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is a sin which is not mortal.”

Many protestants will quote only the phrase from 1 John “All wrongdoing is sin” but it is not within the context. If she does this, ask her to read verses 16 and 17 of chapter five.
 
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