Weird MAJOR Atheist/Catholicism Quandry-how to deal with it

[HarveyL]

Thank you for your wishes for me. I appreciate them.

In terms of the other aspects of your response here, I agree that, for me, believing in God is a choice.

But, as to choice of belief as you stated, this isn’t true for everyone as there are many who have been brought up to a belief in a god of some sort and their conditioning didn’t leave room for an alternative.

I’m not so sure, though, about not believing in God, though for many the choice to not believe is true, it doesn’t follow that this is true for everyone. For some, the absence of belief could have been simply a manifestation of not having any concept of God as a variable in their perceptions, experience or learning and, while eventually trying to understand God’s workings, they simply concluded that they may not be in any need for the acclaimed benefits as those benefits were (in their mind’s eye) obtainable otherwise or those benefits were not understood or accepted for one reason or another. It’s possible, yes?

One other, minor, point: There are arguments for design and arguments that don’t require a design in biology. Scientifically, the only useful choice is biology without design because, if it’s by design there would be no need to study biology as the explanation for its workings would involve design, even including any changes observed over time. As such, one could simply depend on the designer, knowing that His intentions are too powerful and intelligent to attempt to change.

If one, instead, decides that the principles of evolution are at play, one can study and learn them and, if these principles are true, be able to apply the lessons in such a way as to invoke wanted results. The track record of this principal has an enormous success rate, so this idea is only encouraged since it’s based on a high success rate.

Nothing was mentioned of a combination of the two, so I won’t comment here on that.

Yes, it does feel better to believe that, after the body dies, the person goes on with consciousness and more. Believing in this is a choice, no doubt, and a very understandable one. Not believing in this, though it could be a choice, could also simply be a manifestation of many types, not to be detailed here by me (if you don’t mind).

For me, I decided that the choice to believe will be a personal one and not have anything to do with what others believe, evidence, creation, original cause and more. It will be a choice based on what I define as my own personal needs and growth and, as such, may have little to nothing to do with ideas about creation, afterlife, and such (evidence per se) but more because it’s a better fit for me at this time in my life, for all sorts of reasons (some known and maybe some unrealized yet). It will be based also on a need of connection and, though this need can be satisfied in numerous ways, I choose some of the other ways and God…because this fits better now than it ever had in the past. It doesn’t matter if it’s based on what’s “real” or not as what is real is often a matter of preference, as long as it’s not hitting too hard against “reality” (this statement may need more clarification).

Perhaps other things may be discovered by me later, some of them having to do with how and why you believe now, but I am not at that point.

Thanks!

Hello HarveyL. What you have shared is fascinating to me. Firstly, IMO, belief in God is a choice. You have, for many years, chosen to NOT believe. A choice. And, evidently, nothing came along in your life to make you question that choice until now. You cannot become Catholic for someone else or just because it seems a cool thing to do. Just as our God is one in three persons, we are body, soul and spirit. Body and mind you have dealt with all your life, but now it seems that your spirit has emerged. Perhaps it is your spirit now that calls out to God. And it seems your spirit does believe in God. And God is reaching out to your spirit. This is your chance and your choice. When you have a personal experience with our Lord, everything will click and fall into place. I pray that moment will happen for you. Continue to give your spirit a chance to know God and the choice to know God.

I took a Physiology class once. We studied the complexity of the human body in detail. It was awesome how many people were so awestruck and were commenting on the fact that the human body had to have been by design and could not have been some random accident. At that moment, God seemed the answer. Intelligent design. Once you admit intelligent design, then there has to be a creator. And that creator created you. And then it goes from there. Creator is greater than I. I owe my existence to the creator. It isn’t hard to believe or give due worship after that. And then wanting to know who God is. It is so much more hopeful to believe in God than not. To believe that there is something else past this mortal life, some kind of immortality, is hopeful. So much better than the belief that when this body dies, that’s it. You cease to exist. So much better to believe that miracles can and do happen, and not just a belief in random chance. Only the existence of God explains everything that is. Nothing else makes sense to me. I hope you have that personal experience, that light bulb :newidea: moment with God. Nothing will ever be the same.

 

[eddie_too]

harvey,

i have often wondered what support or evidence atheists have to support their belief that God does not exist.

please understand, i know that both theists and atheists accept that the physical universe exists, but what underlies the atheists’ belief that God does not exist? are there any facts or other kind of evidence to support such a belief. i do not know of them and if you could provide them i would much appreciate it.

 

[lightacandle]

eddie too, I know what you mean. I guess there is no concrete way to prove that God exists or doesn’t exist, short of God showing up and proving himself. It interests me why some people lean toward the God doesn’t exist argument and why others naturally lean toward the God does exist argument. I, too, would like to hear some of the arguments against the existence of God. Scientists have been researching the brain and now believe that some people are just hardwired to a belief in a deity and some are not. I doubt they can show me an exact place where that neuron functions or doesn’t. Just as they haven’t managed to untangle all of our DNA yet, and to say that this gene does this and that one does that, etc. They’re working on it. But, I bet the brain is waaaaaaayyyyyyy too complicated for them to dissect the belief in God neuron, if there is such a thing. And if there is such a thing, and if there is a God, then that sounds an awful lot like predestination to me. That’s another argument. :whacky:

 

[lightacandle]

HarveyL, I sincerely wish you the best in your search or in your choice. And I hope that you find the people in the Catholic Church to be loving and kind. Much luck and happiness in your relationship also. And I hope this God that you’re not quite ready to believe in, showers you with many blessings.

 

[AndyP2014]

HarveyL

Again as others have said before what your going through is common and most people explain it in term of Head vs Heart. Either can happen first also the whole sexual aspect is not unusual but maybe less common. The following is a link to Roy Shoeman’s site “Salvation is from the Jews”. Roy is a Jewish covert to Catholicism who sees it as the completion of his Jewish faith. It has a bunch of interviews of other Jewish converts who had differing levels of religiosity prior to the conversion just like you. Some where devout orthodox while others where more or less atheist.

salvationisfromthejews.com/radiomaria.html

 

[HarveyL]

Eddie too,

Being an atheist occurs for many reasons. I think that the stats indicate that the majority reason comprises of some sort of anger or disappointment involving one’s previous belief in God. So the belief morphs into a rejection of belief. The anger/disappointment is made up of a plethora of dynamics and one’s imagination can compile a listing easily. As such, this constitutes a “proof” of God’s nonexistence to those so inclined.

For many, including my own life’s story, the lack of belief arose from the concept not being a working variable in their life. I, for instance, was brought up in a situation where the concept of God was never introduced as a factor in anything pursued. As such, my goals, feelings, working concepts, relationships, appreciations, sensitivities, etc. never used the idea of a God in them, nor was the manifestation of God a conscious or subconscious variable in action or idea, ever.

Some atheists come to the conclusion via logic. Since books can be written, and have, on this subject, you’ll have to research that yourself as it’s not logistically possible to summarize these ideas in this context, here.

As to proof. The arguments start from the idea that one can’t proof the nonexistence of any thing, as opposed to, say, a mathematical concept (for instance, try and prove the nonexistence of a unicorn who has the power to read minds. You may believe that this doesn’t exist, but you can’t really provide any proof that it doesn’t). The arguments go along a continuum where the other extreme represents those who feel that they can prove God’s nonexistence (depending on the definition of God, which varies also depending on the culture, time and belief system). The attempts usually involve logic, according to the proponents, but also involve the observation that nothing in the natural world has been definitively demonstrated to need a God to work, at least nothing currently known.

For a more detailed explanation, one simply may search Google and observe websites where the arguments exist in full bloom.

harvey,

i have often wondered what support or evidence atheists have to support their belief that God does not exist.

please understand, i know that both theists and atheists accept that the physical universe exists, but what underlies the atheists’ belief that God does not exist? are there any facts or other kind of evidence to support such a belief. i do not know of them and if you could provide them i would much appreciate it.

 

[RC1947]

For me, I decided that the choice to believe will be a personal one and not have anything to do with what others believe, evidence, creation, original cause and more. It will be a choice based on what I define as my own personal needs and growth and, as such, may have little to nothing to do with ideas about creation, afterlife, and such (evidence per se) but more because it’s a better fit for me at this time in my life, for all sorts of reasons (some known and maybe some unrealized yet). It will be based also on a need of connection and, though this need can be satisfied in numerous ways, I choose some of the other ways and God…because this fits better now than it ever had in the past. It doesn’t matter if it’s based on what’s “real” or not as what is real is often a matter of preference, as long as it’s not hitting too hard against “reality” (this statement may need more clarification).
Thanks!

Faith in God and His One, True, Catholic, Apostolic Church is a GIFT from God to you, not just a personal choice you make to honor God. Indeed, Faith is a requirement if one is to save one’s soul. We do not have the right as creatures to refuse the Truth in its wholeness; one does not debate one’s Creator, Who is All-Perfect. We have free will, but we haven’t the right to pick and choose. (There is a vast difference between “right” and “duty”). It’s all or nothing. One bows down in humility and in thanksgiving for the opportunity to do His holy will. The Church is not there to suit one’s own personal needs per se, though while, in fact, She does suit everyone’s personal spiritual needs perfectly, it is not the best motive. Through Her a soul in sanctifying grace will be supplied all that is necessary for salvation from moment to moment, the most common means being the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments. What is most necessary on our part is complete love for God, and love requires sacrifice. Love IS sacrifice. It is hard work, sometimes devoid of any warm emotions or consolations, even for a very long time. Every crucifix supplies that evidence. And you have to know what you are doing and why you are doing it. As you pray, offer yourself as a loving sacrifice to God and ask that He use you according to His will. Perhaps then, the Gift will be given. I will pray for that.
Patricia

 

[HarveyL]

I’m a little confused by your stated concept of “free will” as, on the one hand, you state that “we have free will” but on the other hand you state “we haven’t the right to pick and choose”. How are both those statements (as part of the same sentence) compatible?

As far as the “best” or ideal motive, you supply salvation as a preferred motive but how is that different from any other preferred motive and what is the difference if any other motive leads, eventually, to the same place: salvation?

Finally, a fair case can be made that some people grow their God spirituality over time, some faster than others, and during this time may go through a variety of situations involving doubt and meaningfulness. In other words, some people may have legitimate reasons for not immediately being in an “all or nothing” situation and, as such, how can you justify “all or nothing” when the spiritual awakening edifice may involve a slower transition and, in fact, often does?

Sometimes “knowing what you are doing” takes on a changing perspective and may, therefore, involve a knowing that aligns along a learning curve, yes?

Faith in God and His One, True, Catholic, Apostolic Church is a GIFT from God to you, not just a personal choice you make to honor God. Indeed, Faith is a requirement if one is to save one’s soul. We do not have the right as creatures to refuse the Truth in its wholeness; one does not debate one’s Creator, Who is All-Perfect. We have free will, but we haven’t the right to pick and choose. (There is a vast difference between “right” and “duty”). It’s all or nothing. One bows down in humility and in thanksgiving for the opportunity to do His holy will. The Church is not there to suit one’s own personal needs per se, though while, in fact, She does suit everyone’s personal spiritual needs perfectly, it is not the best motive. Through Her a soul in sanctifying grace will be supplied all that is necessary for salvation from moment to moment, the most common means being the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and the Sacraments. What is most necessary on our part is complete love for God, and love requires sacrifice. Love IS sacrifice. It is hard work, sometimes devoid of any warm emotions or consolations, even for a very long time. Every crucifix supplies that evidence. And you have to know what you are doing and why you are doing it. As you pray, offer yourself as a loving sacrifice to God and ask that He use you according to His will. Perhaps then, the Gift will be given. I will pray for that.
Patricia

 

[RC1947]

I’m a little confused by your stated concept of “free will” as, on the one hand, you state that “we have free will” but on the other hand you state “we haven’t the right to pick and choose”. How are both those statements (as part of the same sentence) compatible?

As far as the “best” or ideal motive, you supply salvation as a preferred motive but how is that different from any other preferred motive and what is the difference if any other motive leads, eventually, to the same place: salvation?

Finally, a fair case can be made that some people grow their God spirituality over time, some faster than others, and during this time may go through a variety of situations involving doubt and meaningfulness. In other words, some people may have legitimate reasons for not immediately being in an “all or nothing” situation and, as such, how can you justify “all or nothing” when the spiritual awakening edifice may involve a slower transition and, in fact, often does?

Sometimes “knowing what you are doing” takes on a changing perspective and may, therefore, involve a knowing that aligns along a learning curve, yes?

Free will, one of the three things which separates us from the animals, give us the ability to choose. In terms of morality, it is the power to choose between right and wrong. Whatever your choice, God knows what it will be, but He will not stop you. But because God is what He is, all-perfect, all-good, all-knowing, almighty, etc., and because He created us, He is worthy of absolute obedience to His laws. In that sense, as creatures, we do not have the right to disobey, i.e., “pick and choose” if you will. Yes, we are free, but we are really only morally free to do what we ought to do. If we fail in that, God in His justice will punish his creatures. So one still makes the choice: to please God or please oneself. To really get into this deeply with St. Thomas Aquinas, see http://www.informationphilosopher.com/solutions/philosophers/aquinas/

Regarding motive, we are always making choices between actions; some are simply better than others, though both may have merit. The better ones lead us to our goals more quickly, don’t you think? If one chooses against what leads to salvation, he chooses sin. Venial sins weaken, mortal sins are deadly.

Of course, you are correct that the more we learn the more we know, and that we learn differently from others and not at the same rate. One must always make allowances for everyone’s unique spiritual requirements. And it is true that we cannot love that which we don’t know, whether it is one’s spouse, child, a place, an occupation, but most especially God and His Church. What is meant by my “all or nothing” phrase is that a baptized Catholic must accept Catholic teaching, whole and entire, otherwise he falls into heresy or even apostasy and separates himself from God. We often have difficulties, but the answers to them are available. Doubts are something else altogether. Good and holy priests and the Sacrament of Penance are the immediate remedies.

There are some wonderful books that will enrich your knowledge. To start, two I recommend are How to Think About God A guide for the 20th Century Pagan by Mortimer J. Adler, and The Teaching of the Catholic Church A Summary of Catholic Doctrine by Canon George D. Smith, D.D., Ph.D. [The MacMillan Company, 1964] in 2 volumes. The first is easy to find; the second you may have to hunt for, but it is a treasure to keep.

I hope some of this proves helpful, Harvey! God bless your efforts.

 

[RC1947]

Free will, one of the three things which separates us from the animals, give us the ability to choose. In terms of morality, it is the power to choose between right and wrong. Whatever your choice, God knows what it will be, but He will not stop you. But because God is what He is, all-perfect, all-good, all-knowing, almighty, etc., and because He created us, He is worthy of absolute obedience to His laws. In that sense, as creatures, we do not have the right to disobey, i.e., “pick and choose” if you will. Yes, we are free, but we are really only morally free to do what we ought to do. If we fail in that, God in His justice will punish his creatures. So one still makes the choice: to please God or please oneself. To really get into this deeply with St. Thomas Aquinas, see aquinasonline.com/Topics/freewill.html

Regarding motive, we are always making choices between actions; some are simply better than others, though both may have merit. The better ones lead us to our goals more quickly, don’t you think? If one chooses against what leads to salvation, he chooses sin. Venial sins weaken, mortal sins are deadly.

Of course, you are correct that the more we learn the more we know, and that we learn differently from others and not at the same rate. One must always make allowances for everyone’s unique spiritual requirements. And it is true that we cannot love that which we don’t know, whether it is one’s spouse, child, a place, an occupation, but most especially God and His Church. What is meant by my “all or nothing” phrase is that a baptized Catholic must accept Catholic teaching, whole and entire, otherwise he falls into heresy or even apostasy and separates himself from God. We often have difficulties, but the answers to them are available. Doubts are something else altogether. Good and holy priests and the Sacrament of Penance are the immediate remedies.

There are some wonderful books that will enrich your knowledge. To start, two I recommend are How to Think About God A guide for the 20th Century Pagan by Mortimer J. Adler, and The Teaching of the Catholic Church A Summary of Catholic Doctrine by Canon George D. Smith, D.D., Ph.D. [The MacMillan Company, 1964] in 2 volumes. The first is easy to find; the second you may have to hunt for, but it is a treasure to keep.

I hope some of this proves helpful, Harvey! God bless your efforts.

I have changed the link to St. Thomas Aquinas and Free Will.

 

[Jake_Parker]

In a way, I understand where you’re coming from, though I grew up Protestant. I would say I agree with the Catholic Church on at least 80% of their teaching. I believe in the Trinity and that is can never be fully understood, that God is truly present in the Eucharist, that Mary is the Mother of God, I am prolife (including strong empathy for mothers that seek abortion), I fully understand why marriage in the Catholic Church is between a man and woman.

Here’s where I differ, and why I have not joined RCIA to become Catholic: I respect the church enough to not do it.

I am very much Christian, but also a homosexual. I’ve spent years in prayer, being prayed for, attending church, etc. I have concluded that I am loved by God and will be in Heaven with him. This does go against Catholic teaching, but in this case, I do believe they are wrong. However, because I respect the church and the teachings, I will not become Catholic. I am in a committed and loving same-sex relationship. I intend to get married to my boyfriend. So, that would describe my above “religious beliefs.”

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Just an update:

I have been doing the following most every day:

Praying when wakening (usually asking God to direct me for the day)
Praying in mid day (thanking God for the blessings I’ve received)
Praying before sleep (telling God that I’m open to believe)
Reading my Bible every day at least 15 minutes (usually more than 30)
Praying the Rosary whenever I have time and instead of doing things that are simply time fillers (entertainment type stuff)
IMPORTANT-Examining my conscience before sleep and during the day (in terms of Catholic sin), asking God for forgiveness and including in my prayers for having the power in God to overcome them.
Going to Mass, even when on vacation (even my fiancee never did this but I now feel a strong need to do so and feel renewed afterwards, though left with a deep painful feeling of not being allowed, yet, to participate in Communion)

This sounds amazing,
blessings,
Eric

 

[NeuralMonk]

Some atheists come to the conclusion via logic. Since books can be written, and have, on this subject, you’ll have to research that yourself as it’s not logistically possible to summarize these ideas in this context, here.

As to proof. The arguments start from the idea that one can’t proof the nonexistence of any thing, as opposed to, say, a mathematical concept (for instance, try and prove the nonexistence of a unicorn who has the power to read minds. You may believe that this doesn’t exist, but you can’t really provide any proof that it doesn’t).

For a more detailed explanation, one simply may search Google and observe websites where the arguments exist in full bloom.

Hello HarveyL,
I wish you well on your journey, and I feel your pain. This thread did not start off well, but you are hanging with it.

I would propose this construct to help you understand what you are going through:
First, when you are at a Catholic Church, God is really and truly present in the Blessed Host and Sacred Blood. The reason that mass makes your beliefs change is because you are being impacted by the divine presence. I believe if you started Eucharistic Adoration, you would find yourself in touch with our Lord on a more frequent basis.

Second, the reason you revert back to atheism is that your mind has been conformed to that path. It is not unlike an addiction. I will try to explain why.

True atheism depends on rational thought. Every event must have a reason. It is this reason that keeps nagging at your brain, because your brain loves to reason.

However, God requires faith to reach Him. Here is where the wiring got crossed. Atheism teaches that faith is absque hoc (without fact) but the reality is that faith is super hoc (beyond fact). When we have faith, we start with reason, but God, who is outside of our box, cannot be approached by reason. He is the genesis of all reason and therefore beyond what He created.

As long as you keep holding on to the crutch of reason, you will never get to faith.

You have for so long excluded a deity from your reason, that there is no room for Him in it. It is actually a form of lunacy.

Whenever we exclude things just because we cannot reason them, we are removing possibilities because our finite mind cannot grasp the infinite. But the removal of these things does not make our world larger, it makes our world smaller. It shrinks our soul and removes some of the wonder and adventure of life.

You talk about unicorns, yet I do believe in them. I am not less for believing in a unicorn, but more because I can enjoy life in all its mysteries. I serve a God who created such diversity, and he created us with His imagination. We can use it for good to imagine and dream about unicorns, or we can choose to use it to imagine new ways to restrict our thoughts.

I am trying to show you the life you can have in your soul. The Holy Spirit is the one impacting you at church. Talk to Him. Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal Himself to you. I know He would love for you to ask Him that.

The real life is the one you feel at the mass. The fake life is the one you have built outside the church.

I really could give you facts and reasons on why atheism is not a sound belief, but my strongest argument is also my weakest. So I offer you a unicorn to help you imagine again.

 

[Jomann]

I’m in the same situation explained in the OP.

But I have found some red lights in the logic of atheism.

One of them is the unavoidable conclusion of atheism: eliminative materialism.

EM says that not just God doesn’t exists but human consciousness doesn’t exists too.

That’s too much to me to handle. Obviously I perceive my consciousness and even though is something immaterial it certainly exists.

 

[Della]

Here’s a lovely portrayal of a discussion between C. S. Lewis and J. R. R. Tolkien on materialism: youtube.com/watch?v=NzBT39gx-TE that may be helpful (and fun) to watch.

 

[27lw]

Hi HarveyL,

On my journey into the Church I had some similar thoughts to yours. I think that our mind has different parts / levels, and sometimes the rational / scientific part is trying to find concrete scientific answers to questions that are more spiritual / religious / moral.

Allow me to quote Shakespeare: There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, / Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

In church you find yourself open / thinking / hoping about the possibility of beautiful spiritual things, and then in the secular world your rational mind is poking holes into all the religious concepts. I just allowed myself the idea that some things work with the scientific filter on, and other things want the religious filter on.

Good luck - - enjoy the journey, and as other people have said, take the right amount of time.

 

[Churchman25]

I think the best solution for this type of thing would be to renounce all atheistic tendencies, and I know this can be a difficult thing. The other thing is why don’t you enroll yourself in RCIA. I know this is a big decision, but in my point of view I think its a good one. Also, you need to keep on researching the catholic faith to learn more about it. Also you can use it to deepen your understanding about God, and various church teachings. Also allow yourself to ask questions on things you dont really understand. I can tell you there are many things in the catholic faith that are not easily understood. The last thing is, is keep on praying if you are already doing so because your faith will become stronger over time. Now with all this being said faith is something that you can build on over the years and it just like knowlege is increased when you do your part in expanding it.

 

[HarveyL]

What you wrote was poetic and I surely appreciate it. I take your advice seriously, thanks!

Hello HarveyL,
I wish you well on your journey, and I feel your pain. This thread did not start off well, but you are hanging with it.

I would propose this construct to help you understand what you are going through:
First, when you are at a Catholic Church, God is really and truly present in the Blessed Host and Sacred Blood. The reason that mass makes your beliefs change is because you are being impacted by the divine presence. I believe if you started Eucharistic Adoration, you would find yourself in touch with our Lord on a more frequent basis.

Second, the reason you revert back to atheism is that your mind has been conformed to that path. It is not unlike an addiction. I will try to explain why.

True atheism depends on rational thought. Every event must have a reason. It is this reason that keeps nagging at your brain, because your brain loves to reason.

However, God requires faith to reach Him. Here is where the wiring got crossed. Atheism teaches that faith is absque hoc (without fact) but the reality is that faith is super hoc (beyond fact). When we have faith, we start with reason, but God, who is outside of our box, cannot be approached by reason. He is the genesis of all reason and therefore beyond what He created.

As long as you keep holding on to the crutch of reason, you will never get to faith.

You have for so long excluded a deity from your reason, that there is no room for Him in it. It is actually a form of lunacy.

Whenever we exclude things just because we cannot reason them, we are removing possibilities because our finite mind cannot grasp the infinite. But the removal of these things does not make our world larger, it makes our world smaller. It shrinks our soul and removes some of the wonder and adventure of life.

You talk about unicorns, yet I do believe in them. I am not less for believing in a unicorn, but more because I can enjoy life in all its mysteries. I serve a God who created such diversity, and he created us with His imagination. We can use it for good to imagine and dream about unicorns, or we can choose to use it to imagine new ways to restrict our thoughts.

I am trying to show you the life you can have in your soul. The Holy Spirit is the one impacting you at church. Talk to Him. Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal Himself to you. I know He would love for you to ask Him that.

The real life is the one you feel at the mass. The fake life is the one you have built outside the church.

I really could give you facts and reasons on why atheism is not a sound belief, but my strongest argument is also my weakest. So I offer you a unicorn to help you imagine again.

 

[HarveyL]

I think that atheists don’t believe in God because God is not well defined and anything that isn’t well defined is, by definition, non-existent.

Also, atheists don’t see a need for God in their lives and, as such, without a need or affect there is a lack of existence. (Note, all the reasons work as a combination, none of them standing alone).

Another reason is that where, in the past, God was the cause for certain physical phenomena (ie., lightning, the tides, etc.) and where those physical things became understood and didn’t need a God to explain them, the God of the Gaps grew to an understanding that God as once defined isn’t valid and, so, God is rejected as an explanation for physical things that are or will be understood (in terms of the odds made apparent via the history of this kind of thing).

Another reason is that the idea of God never played a part in the atheist’s life and, because God is not a reality or factor in this respect, God doesn’t exist…for them.

Google searches will yield a plethora of reasons.

harvey,

i have often wondered what support or evidence atheists have to support their belief that God does not exist.

please understand, i know that both theists and atheists accept that the physical universe exists, but what underlies the atheists’ belief that God does not exist? are there any facts or other kind of evidence to support such a belief. i do not know of them and if you could provide them i would much appreciate it.

 

[HarveyL]

Last Easter Vigil (2017) I finally converted. Realizing that Confirmation required making statements that become a reaffirmation of one’s baptismal promises, and being a man of my word, I decided to fully embrace my conversion and, because I made a promise of Catholic faith, that means having no doubt.

Afterwards, I’ve been going to Mass as many days as possible, very often in the mid-week. Doing this gave me that faith feeling/inspiration I needed to keep the holy spirit acting in me and, the more I went, the easier it became. Finally I can say that I believe in God, the Trinity, and know that loving feeling I needed to accept my new life. My friends are totally baffled by it, and I answer their questions, but I’m now firm in my conviction, though I don’t preach to anyone.

Faith in God, for me, is wonderful…

I’ve been an atheist most of my life (I’m 65 and an atheist since the age of 7). I’ve fallen in love with a practicing Catholic woman who, upon her invitation, I accompany to Mass every week and have been doing so for many months now. Note, too, that in this post when I use the term “cognitive” I mean when I’m thinking without emotion, sort of like Mr. Spock, devoid of as much emotional connection as my mind can sum up.

I have always had a deep level of curiosity about many things and, since going to Mass, I’ve asked many questions and read many things about the meaning of the Mass and what it means to be Catholic. My learning has drawn me closer both to my, now, fiancee and to Catholicism. I’m very impressed with the incredible amount of thought behind the Catechism, the beauty of the Church, and the rituals, not to mention the morality and goodness of Catholic thinking and practice, as I’ve seen it so far. I even decided to, what I thought to be temporary, give up atheistic viewpoints for Lent (and discussed this in a separate thread).

My history is Jewish but I don’t practice and haven’t done so since I was 13 when I was forced/strongly-encouraged to have a Bar Mitzvah. My fiancee would be overjoyed if I converted to Catholic, but she wants it to be my decision. I even hired a certified hypnotist to believe in God though she said that can’t be done in any long term manner, she instead opened me up to “spirituality”. This had two affects: I find myself annoyed when I read or hear atheists espousing their beliefs (even though I agree with them!) and my fiancee giggles when this happens as she feels similarly, and I am filled with a feeling of love and community when we go to Mass together, far more than previously.

Here’s the issue, and it’s a strange one. When I go to Church it’s as though I believe in God completely. Note that I and my fiancee have both been praying for my belief. But, when I’m in my ordinary world, outside the Church, I revert to my atheistic beliefs which are now 100% in my cognitive mind and 50% in my emotional self (it used to be 100% at all times, on both levels) though for Lent I didn’t reveal this and, instead, decided to only have positive thoughts and actions regarding belief and Catholicism.

I’ve read many of the apologetics and my cognitive mind easily finds answers that undermine the logic of all of the apologetics, including the first cause explanation, which I think is among the best of the arguments. Yet, emotionally, now, I feel a MAJOR draw to Catholicism. So, I both (and I use this term on purpose) love Catholicism at the same time that I don’t believe (cognitively) its major foundational beliefs: the Resurrection, the existence of God and transubstantiation. Note, though, that emotionally I do believe all of this. (?!)

This is a very strange place to be, trust me. It’s almost as if I’m two people, but I’m not crazy, I am one person.

Let me just free associate and say what I want and let you out there help sort this quandry for me.

Now, I want to become Catholic (I’m registering for the RCIA and am being guided until then by our Catholic priest who is giving me tasks to do in preparation). I want to have our marriage as a sacrament as this would both satisfy my fiancee (and myself) and place our marriage in the highest order. I want to go to Mass at least once a week, and on all high holy days, for the rest of my life. I want to go to Confession and be absolved of my sins and seek Penance. I want to convert and live a life of deeper conversion every day. I want my marriage to be inspired by Jesus and God. I want to use the list of sins and the 10 Commandments as the moral code to live by. I want to be able to think and feel Catholic, to vote with Catholic conscience (note, I am (cognitively) for birth control, abortion, gay rights but FEEL a kinship with Catholic morals and want that, too, to enter my cognitive beliefs since I understand the connection that the Catholic Catechism has so clearly described) but can not, now, connect the two parts of myself: the emotional and the cognitive.

When I am outside the Church, in my everyday life, I can’t find myself to believe that God exists. I hold very “progressive” political viewpoints that violate Catholic doctrine. The exception comes only when I’m with my fiancee and feeling great love for her. At those times I feel God is working His hand in my relationship and guiding me to a holy life. That is the only exception. And, another strange observation: when I’m in Church I feel this same feeling. I’m actually turned on, sexually, about all things Catholic.

I’m very, very confused about it all and don’t know what to do with this.