Weird Mass today; Valid? Obligation Fulfilled?

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victrolatim

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I have been making the effort to visit the many wonderful churches in our diocese. The church I visited today was beautiful, but the pastor celebrating left me shuddering. Here were my main concerns:

Father was using Roman Missal II
Omitted Gloria and Creed (didn’t know this could be done at a Sunday Mass?)

He then went on a rambling 40 minute homily. Now, I can live through bad sermons, but comments such as “If a guy wants to marry another guy, what the heck, the church should let them. Times are changing” and “Hey, I don’t really care about anyone’s eternal soul, If my nephew ends up in heaven or not, it’s not gonna make a difference if I see him when I’m dead” made me cringe.

Sign of peace lasted 15 minutes as people ran to the other side of the church, hugged, talked about their kids. Father processed into the nave and began chit chatting with everyone.

Within the confines of Mass, flyers were being passed out during the Canon.

Anyway, I’m just venting. The congregation I found to be very welcoming. I’m mainly concerned with the first two points. If indeed the Mass was invalid, did it still fulfill my Sunday obligation?
 
victrolatim said:
Father was using Roman Missal II
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Do you mean ‘Eucharistic Prayer II’? If so, there’s no problem there.
Omitted Gloria and Creed (didn’t know this could be done at a Sunday Mass?)
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They went straight from the Penitential Act to the Collect? No, that shouldn’t happen.

They omitted the Nicene Creed? Did they pray the Apostles’ Creed? Did they go directly from homily to the Prayer of the Faithful?
He then went on a rambling 40 minute homily. Now, I can live through bad sermons, but comments such as … made me cringe.
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A poor homily is a poor homily; it doesn’t make a Mass ‘invalid’.
Sign of peace lasted 15 minutes as people ran to the other side of the church, hugged, talked about their kids. Father processed into the nave and began chit chatting with everyone.
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Inappropriate, but nothing that can make a Mass ‘invalid’.
I’m mainly concerned with the first two points. If indeed the Mass was invalid, did it still fulfill my Sunday obligation?
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The Mass, per se, isn’t invalid. It might not have been celebrated strictly according to the dictates of the Roman Missal, but it’s not ‘invalid’. And yes, you fulfilled your Sunday obligation.
 
My understanding is that if the consecration of the Eucharist was valid, the Mass was valid, even if there was lots of weird stuff happening that shouldn’t have happened.

That said, my thought is that you wanted to attend a valid Mass and had an expectation that such would happen, so if you’re somewhere where there are no other Masses scheduled for that day, I would definitely not stress and worry that you’re in mortal sin because you didn’t actually attend Mass that day. You intended to, and it should have happened, but it was through no fault of your own that it didn’t. So even if it wasn’t valid, I would not stress about it.
 
I am not referring to Eucharistic Prayer 2 , I’m referring to the mass according to Roman Missal 2 before the revisions. Also, in reference to the creed, there was no creed. No Apostles, nor Nicene Creed.
 
Father mentioned in his very long homily that he is 74. I think retirement may be in order.
 
victrolatim said:
I am not referring to Eucharistic Prayer 2 , I’m referring to the mass according to Roman Missal 2 before the revisions. Also, in reference to the creed, there was no creed. No Apostles, nor Nicene Creed.
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Not invalid but certainly illicit. You should write a letter to your Bishop explaining everything that happened. The bishop needs to hear about things like this.

JMR
 
Or too much alter wine? It happens. Not often, but age, wine, and perhaps the beginning of senility or AD would perhaps be the cause of the priest from wandering from the norm. However, pray for the priest as no one can judge.
 
victrolatim said:
I am not referring to Eucharistic Prayer 2 , I’m referring to the mass according to Roman Missal 2 before the revisions.
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I’m not really sure what you mean by “Roman Missal 2”, though. Do you mean the “Roman Missal, Second Typical Edition” – that is, the 1975 Missal? Or do you mean the “Roman Missal, Third Typical Edition” of 2002? (That’s the one that was in effect when the most recent changes took effect.) We’re still in the “Roman Missal, Third Typical Edition” now – we just have a new translation of the Missal into English. 😉
Also, in reference to the creed, there was no creed. No Apostles, nor Nicene Creed.
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A renewal of baptismal promises, perhaps? (Yeah, I know – chances are, the answer is ‘no’. I’m trying to give your 74-year-old priest the benefit of the doubt. 😉 )
Father mentioned in his very long homily that he is 74. I think retirement may be in order.
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Maybe he’s waiting until there’s a replacement in the wings, before he retires. Goodness knows, we Americans have done a bang-up job in the past twenty years, getting guys into seminary, :nope:, so that we might have sufficient numbers of priests such that our elderly priests feel like they (in good conscience) might retire. Perhaps you might offer a prayer of thanksgiving that you had a priest to celebrate the Mass for you; perhaps you might offer a prayer of thanksgiving for that priest’s lifetime of service; perhaps you might offer a prayer that your words and actions might encourage young men to answer the call to the priesthood. 👍
 
Mary_Estelle said:
Or too much alter wine? It happens. Not often, but age, wine, and perhaps the beginning of senility or AD would perhaps be the cause of the priest from wandering from the norm. However, pray for the priest as no one can judge.
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Of course we can judge actions. If a priest is going against the teachings of Jesus then it is our duty to inquire as to why. For the laity’s benefit but also the priest.
 
Gorgias said:
Maybe he’s waiting until there’s a replacement in the wings, before he retires. so that we might have sufficient numbers of priests such that our elderly priests feel like they (in good conscience) might retire.
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Which can be found out by approaching the priest to clarify the remarks he made in his homily.
Perhaps you might offer a prayer of thanksgiving that you had a priest to celebrate the Mass for you; perhaps you might offer a prayer of thanksgiving for that priest’s lifetime of service; perhaps you might offer a prayer that your words and actions might encourage young men to answer the call to the priesthood. 👍
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Sure…it is right to do as you suggest. One can do that and still seek to correct error. That is a spiritual work of mercy too.
 
victrolatim said:
He then went on a rambling 40 minute homily. Now, I can live through bad sermons, but comments such as “If a guy wants to marry another guy, what the heck, the church should let them. Times are changing” …
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I thought that SS marriage was wrong? Can this rule be changed or has it been changed?
 
Tomdstone said:
I thought that SS marriage was wrong? Can this rule be changed or has it been changed?
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No, the Church teaches that homosexual activity is intrinsically disordered and gravely sinful. The Church will never change this teaching, but some individual clergymen or laity may fall into heresy and deny the teaching.
 
I have now read two threads on the forum today (the first has been closed) describing masses that were odd to say the least. I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination (having only been attending a year & a half), but all I can say is that I THANK GOD daily that He lead me to my little parish, which I love beyond words. 🙂

If pressed, I would prefer the choir sing during Communion rather than the rest of us, but other than that…
 
Can someone describe or direct me to an article that describes the difference between “illicit” and “invalid” in terms of a Mass? :confused:
 
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