Weird One: Holy Water

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Okay, this came up in a group tonight and I was legitimately stumped. Love to hear the CAF take on it.

Suppose you have a pint of holy water in a jar. You pour the pint into a bowl that is filled with five pints of water.

Is it all holy water, is none of it holy water, or is it 20% diluted holy water? The last one sounds incredibly stupid, but also seems most correct to me. What do you think?
 
If holy water does not influence other material things (like a bowl of water), why is it sprinkled about so liberally? Does it not in reality have an effect? and if it is a sacramental sign, why can’t the sign extend to the rest of the bowl?
 
Okay, this came up in a group tonight and I was legitimately stumped. Love to hear the CAF take on it.

Suppose you have a pint of holy water in a jar. You pour the pint into a bowl that is filled with five pints of water.

Is it all holy water, is none of it holy water, or is it 20% diluted holy water? The last one sounds incredibly stupid, but also seems most correct to me. What do you think?
Holiness or blessing cannot be diluted nor partial. So water cannot be partially holy. Holy water is water which has had a special blessing imparted on it. The blessing is not lost by the water being diluted.

Put it this way. Priests sometimes use holy water in other blessings - for example they sprinkle it around a house when blessing it, or sprinkle the congregation on Easter to bless them. So holy water is not only holy on and of itself, but has the power to bless or make holy things other than itself, such as houses or people.

So it stands to reason that an amount of holy water put into normal water would both remain holy/blessed itself and impart a blessing and holiness onto the rest of the water. So the correct answer is that all the water becomes holy.

People sometimes put it into their cooking, for example, on the same principle - that it makes holy the food into which it is mixed.
 
So it stands to reason that an amount of holy water put into normal water would both remain holy/blessed itself and impart a blessing and holiness onto the rest of the water. So the correct answer is that all the water becomes holy.

People sometimes put it into their cooking, for example, on the same principle - that it makes holy the food into which it is mixed.
To me that implied dropping one teaspoon of holy water into the sea would make the whole ocean holy, and then when some of the surface evaporates and later falls as rain, the rain is holy, and whatever the rain falls on becomes holy.

:confused:
 
I’m with Jim Miller on the OP’s question…on the other hand I’m told if you add a greater amount of Holy Water to a lessor amount of water, it all becomes holy water.
 
Q: How do you prepare Holy Water?

A: First, you boil the Hell out of it!!!

(sorry, couldn’t resist)🙂
 
To me that implied dropping one teaspoon of holy water into the sea would make the whole ocean holy, and then when some of the surface evaporates and later falls as rain, the rain is holy, and whatever the rain falls on becomes holy.

:confused:
[joke mode off]

If my understanding of sacramentalism is valid. HW loses it’s “holiness” when it no longer has the sensory characteristics of water. So once water vapor is formed, the “holiness cycle” would halt.

ICXC NIKA
 
Holiness or blessing cannot be diluted nor partial. So water cannot be partially holy. Holy water is water which has had a special blessing imparted on it. The blessing is not lost by the water being diluted.

Put it this way. Priests sometimes use holy water in other blessings - for example they sprinkle it around a house when blessing it, or sprinkle the congregation on Easter to bless them. So holy water is not only holy on and of itself, but has the power to bless or make holy things other than itself, such as houses or people.

So it stands to reason that an amount of holy water put into normal water would both remain holy/blessed itself and impart a blessing and holiness onto the rest of the water. So the correct answer is that all the water becomes holy.

People sometimes put it into their cooking, for example, on the same principle - that it makes holy the food into which it is mixed.
So if we were to drink some HW, could we impart holiness to our bodies, which after all are mostly aqueous phase?

What if we simply soaked our hands, or dabbed on our skin?

ICXC NIKA
 
According to my parish priest, that would mean it was no longer holy. You can, however, pour a small amount of water into a bowl and then pour a larger amount of holy water into a bowl and then it will all be considered holy water. This he said you can do if you are running short of holy water.
 
Of course drinking holy water or putting it on our skin blesses us. That is part of the purpose of Holy Water. Why have it, if you don’t use it to bless yourself, your family, house, etc.

In the case of dilution, I’ve always heard that you can “top off” a container of Holy Water, but you can’t fill a jar with regular water and then put a few drops of Holy Water in and call it all Holy. Maybe think of it as food dye. If you have dyed water that you add 5 times more clear water to the color will dilute and not show. Same sort of theory with Holy Water. It is a sacramental not a magic trick.
 
You can, however, pour a small amount of water into a bowl and then pour a larger amount of holy water into a bowl and then it will all be considered holy water.
This is what I have heard as well. By the same logic, you could take your pint of holy water from the OP, add half a pint of normal water, and you have 1.5 pints holy water. You can then add another pint of normal water, and you have 2.5 pints holy water. Add two more pints of normal water, and you have 4.5 pints holy water. Finally, you can add the last 1.5 pints of normal water to obtain 6 pints of holy water.

Using a similar approach, but on a continuous basis, you could slowly (maybe 1 pt/min) pour your 5 pints of normal water into a large bowl containing your 1 pint of holy water. After half a minute, you’ve added half a pint normal water to the holy water to total 1.5 pts holy water as the remaining 4.5 pints normal water continues to flow in. You can grasp the rest. One way to dispute this approach would be to insist that you have to wait until the pouring is done to count your quantity and determine whether the normal water becomes holy water. However, if that is true, then at the 30-second mark your large bowl has dilute 67% holy water, only later to become all holy water or all normal water.

Obviously if you can do it with a slow pour, you should also be able to do the same with a fast pour. As long as there is no split-second when the quantity of normal water coming in contact with the holy water is greater than the total quantity of holy water, you should be able to pour your 5 pints normal water into the 1 pint of holy water, and have the whole thing become holy water in the 2-3 seconds it takes to pour.

On the other hand, pouring a pint of holy water into a bowl of 5 pints normal water will immediately eradicate the holy water. In fact, using my logic from the last paragraph, pouring 5 pints of holy water into 1 pint of normal water will continuously convert the holy water to normal water as the small amount of holy water being poured each second comes into contact with the larger pint-plus of normal water.

Finally, things become a bit less clear when it’s uncertain which is being poured, or how far the mixing zone of the “pour” extends. Say you have two connected pint bags - one of normal water, one of holy water, floating in space. The barrier between them is broken to allow mixing. At first a milliliter of normal water comes into contact with 2 milliliters of holy water, resulting in 3 ml of holy water. Then that blob of water comes into contact with half a teaspoon of normal water, resulting in just over a teaspoon of holy water. Next comes half a tablespoon of normal water, and the resulting blob becomes all normal water. But when it bumps into a tablespoon of holy water, suddenly the whole thing is holy water again. Back and forth it goes until either the holy water or the normal water gets the better of this process, and the entire 2 pints become either holy water or normal water - but there is no way to tell in advance which it will be.

This makes it hard for me to explain how it is not a magic trick, as Mrs Sally says.
 
According to my parish priest, that would mean it was no longer holy. You can, however, pour a small amount of water into a bowl and then pour a larger amount of holy water into a bowl and then it will all be considered holy water. This he said you can do if you are running short of holy water.
At our Parish, our church secratary is the person that checks on the amount of Holy Water that remains in the large container (?) , when it is low she adds more to it, and I said REALLY! She said she does that all the time. So I’m wondering when was the last time it was blessed.
I don’t know the blessing of course, but one thing I do know about it is that there is a blessing of Exorsism (sp) in that blessing. So that every time you cross yourself with Holy Water, You are getting the blessing of that exorsism.
 
Okay, this came up in a group tonight and I was legitimately stumped. Love to hear the CAF take on it.

Suppose you have a pint of holy water in a jar. You pour the pint into a bowl that is filled with five pints of water.

Is it all holy water, is none of it holy water, or is it 20% diluted holy water? The last one sounds incredibly stupid, but also seems most correct to me. What do you think?
It seems that once the blessed water is not longer distinguishable, it is not useable for it’s purpose. Note that it is not magic water, the power to heal is from God given to his creatures (not the water).

From the fourth century formula in Scrapion’s Pontifical (Catholic Encyclopedia):

“We bless these creatures in the Name of Jesus Christ, Thy only Son; we invoke upon this water and this oil the Name of Him Who suffered, Who was crucified, Who arose from the dead, and Who sits at the right of the Uncreated. Grant unto these creatures the power to heal; may all fevers, every evil spirit, and all maladies be put to flight by him who either drinks these beverages or is anointed with them, and may they be a remedy in the Name of Jesus Christ, Thy only Son.”

newadvent.org/cathen/07432a.htm
 
Yes, but the point people are missing is that it’s not about “magic water” or having cool tricks.

The point is that God is generous, and the Bride is generous with Her Bridegroom’s gifts, and that the whole idea is to splash around God’s blessing. God doesn’t want a parish to run out of holy water when Father’s not there; He instructs His Church to be merciful and generous.

Now, it’s possible to presume too much on the generous interpretations of Church law. In order to discourage this, there are established procedures to indicate “this is okay”, “this is not okay”, and “thou shalt not test the Lord God by playing multiplication tables; but if you really do have a sudden need for gallons of holy water, sure, it could be done.” BECAUSE it’s not magic, we have tons and tons of leeway and approved procedures to cover emergencies and keep worries away.

So yeah, it would be better if the secretary were a little more circumspect, and if Father blessed new quantities of water more often.

But I seriously doubt that anybody in that parish who really needs holy water will be deprived of its virtues. It’s very likely that the Church’s treasury of merits of the saints and power from Her Bridegroom will “cover” whatever is done in good faith. It’s nothing to presume upon, mind you.
 
Thanks, everyone! Some excellent points all around, but especially in the final two posts by Vico and Mintaka. I was trying to put my finger on that the whole time I was thinking over the question – trying to find the right way to say, “This is a sacramental, not a sacrament, and therefore not a science,” without saying, “The water itself doesn’t matter; only God’s love does” (which would be a half-truth at best).

So thanks!
 
Wait - So I can ask for a little bit of Holy Water then dump it in the ocean, making it Holy Water? 😃 If that can happen then I’m so going to do that! 😛
 
Wait - So I can ask for a little bit of Holy Water then dump it in the ocean, making it Holy Water? 😃 If that can happen then I’m so going to do that! 😛
You’ll need an ocean’s worth of holy water first. Even following my instructions a few posts back, that’ll take awhile to achieve.

Perhaps another way would be for a priest to bless the water directly. What are the rules about how to bless water to create holy water? Must the water be in a vessel? Does it need to be sealed off from contact with other water? Could the priest bless an entire swimming pool, or even a lagoon?
 
It was my understanding that you can add more common water, but the amount added must be less than the reminaing holy water.

For example, if there was 5 pints of Holy Water, one could add 4.99 pints of common water and it would retain it’s sacramental value.

That seemed to be confirmed on EWTN

catholic-bulletin.blogspot.com/2008/02/does-holy-water-stay-holy-if-you-keep.html
but then later, could you add 9.98 pints of common water after you are finished, because you now have 9.99 pints of holy water?
 
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