Well, I like guitars

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Eucharistic Prayer I exactly one “celebrate”

We come to your, Father, with praise and thanksgiving, through Jesus Christ your Son.** Through him we ask you to accept and bless these gifts we offer you in sacrifice**. We offer them for your holy catholic Church, watch over it, Lord, and guide it; grant it peace and unity throughout the world. We offer them for Benedict our Pope, for {name of Bishop in your diocese} our bishop, and for all who hold and teach the catholic faith that comes to us from the apostles.

Remember, Lord, your people, especially those for whom we now pray, {names}. Remember all of us gathered here before you. You know how firmly we believe in you and dedicate ourselves to you. We offer you this sacrifice of praise for ourselves and those who are dear to us. We pray to you, our living and true God, for our well-being and redemption.

In union with the whole Church we honor Mary, the ever-virgin mother of Jesus Christ our Lord and God. **We honor Joseph, **her husband, the apostles and martyrs Peter and Paul, Andrew [James, John, Thomas, James, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Simon and Jude; we honor Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus, Cornelius, Cyprian, Lawrence, Chrysogonus, John and Paul, Cosmas and Damian] and all the saints. May their merits and prayers gain us your constant help and protection. [Through Christ our Lord. Amen.]

Father, accept this offering from your whole family. **Grant us your peace in this life, **save us from final damnation, and count us among those you have chosen. [Through Christ our Lord. Amen.]

Bless and approve our offering; make it acceptable to you, and offering in spirit and in truth. Let is become for us the body and blood of Jesus Christ, your only Son, our Lord.

The day before he suffered he took break in his sacred hands and looking up to heaven, to you, his almighty Father, he gave you thanks and praise. He broke the bread, gave it to his disciples, and said: Take this, all of you, and eat it: this is my body which will be given up for you.

When supper was ended, he took the cup. Again he gave you thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples, and said: Take this, all of you, and drink from it: this is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for all so that sins may be forgiven. Do this in memory of me.

Let us proclaim the mystery of faith.

Memorial Acclamation

Father, we celebrate the memory of Christ, your Son. We, your people and your ministers, recall his passion, his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension into glory; and from the many gifts you have given us we offer to you, God of glory and majesty, this holy and perfect sacrifice: the bread of life and the cup of eternal salvation.

**Look with favor on these offerings and accept them as once you accepted the gifts of your servant Abel, the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith, and the bread and wine offered by your priest Melchizedek. **

Almighty God, we pray that your angel may take this sacrifice to your altar in heaven. Then, as we receive from this altar the sacred body and blood of your Son, let us be filled with every grace and blessing. [Through Christ our Lord. Amen.]

Remember, Lord, those who have died and have gone before us marked with the sign of faith, especially those for whom we now pray, {names deceased loved ones whom the celebrant or parishioner wishes to offer before God}. May these, and all who sleep in Christ, find in your presence light, happiness, and peace. [Though Christ our Lord. Amen.]

For ourselves, too,** we ask some share in the fellowship of your apostles** and martyrs, with John the Baptist, Stephen, Matthias, Barnabas, [Ignatius, Alexander, Marcellinus, Peter, Felicity, Perpetua, Agatha, Lucy, Agnes, Cecilia, Anastasia] and all the saints. Though we are sinners, **we trust in your mercy and love. Do not consider what we truly deserve, but grant us your forgiveness. Through Christ our Lord. **

Through him you give us all these gifts. You fill them with life and goodness, you bless them and make them holy.

Through him, with him, in him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, almighty Father, for ever and ever. Amen.
 
Take a look at all the Eucharistic Prayers…and the prefaces…and the other prayers.

Celebrate is a distant verb.
 
Irish_Eyes_826 said:
Well I think we should remember that Gregorian chant was not around until 500 years after Christ, yet by the grace of God, the Church still lasted. .
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This is not correct. Where did you get this information? The various chants of the Church were CODIFIED about that time, after having been around for centuries. In fact, early Church chant has its roots in Hebrew chant!

The Catholic Church is not the only religion that has a specifically “set aside” style of music for sacred purposes. There is Jewish Chant, Buddhist chant…not to mention the special music of Islam ( who hasn’t heard examples of the “calls to worship” from the minarets?). And many of our brothers and sisters in Christ of various denominations have various traditions of sacred music that in no way sound like secular/pop music - just think
of the great Lutheran chorales. But none of the latter sounds like the schmaltzy “feelings”
music that I hear every week at Mass. If the words were changed to pop lyrics, I would never be able to identify the music as sacred in style. Quite simply, because it isn’t.
 
Edward_H said:
Eucharistic Prayer I exactly one “celebrate”

We come to your, Father, with praise and thanksgiving, through Jesus Christ your Son.** Through him we ask you to accept and bless these gifts we offer you in sacrifice**. We offer them for your holy catholic Church, watch over it, Lord, and guide it; grant it peace and unity throughout the world. We offer them for Benedict our Pope, for {name of Bishop in your diocese} our bishop, and for all who hold and teach the catholic faith that comes to us from the apostles.

Remember, Lord, your people, especially those for whom we now pray, {names}. Remember all of us gathered here before you. You know how firmly we believe in you and dedicate ourselves to you. We offer you this sacrifice of praise for ourselves and those who are dear to us. We pray to you, our living and true God, for our well-being and redemption.

In union with the whole Church we honor Mary, the ever-virgin mother of Jesus Christ our Lord and God. **We honor Joseph, **her husband, the apostles and martyrs Peter and Paul, Andrew [James, John, Thomas, James, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Simon and Jude; we honor Linus, Cletus, Clement, Sixtus, Cornelius, Cyprian, Lawrence, Chrysogonus, John and Paul, Cosmas and Damian] and all the saints. May their merits and prayers gain us your constant help and protection. [Through Christ our Lord. Amen.]

Father, accept this offering from your whole family. **Grant us your peace in this life, **save us from final damnation, and count us among those you have chosen. [Through Christ our Lord. Amen.]

Bless and approve our offering; make it acceptable to you, and offering in spirit and in truth. Let is become for us the body and blood of Jesus Christ, your only Son, our Lord.

The day before he suffered he took break in his sacred hands and looking up to heaven, to you, his almighty Father, he gave you thanks and praise. He broke the bread, gave it to his disciples, and said: Take this, all of you, and eat it: this is my body which will be given up for you.

When supper was ended, he took the cup. Again he gave you thanks and praise, gave the cup to his disciples, and said: Take this, all of you, and drink from it: this is the cup of my blood, the blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you and for all so that sins may be forgiven. Do this in memory of me.

Let us proclaim the mystery of faith.

Memorial Acclamation

Father, we celebrate the memory of Christ, your Son. We, your people and your ministers, recall his passion, his resurrection from the dead, and his ascension into glory; and from the many gifts you have given us we offer to you, God of glory and majesty, this holy and perfect sacrifice: the bread of life and the cup of eternal salvation.

**Look with favor on these offerings and accept them as once you accepted the gifts of your servant Abel, the sacrifice of Abraham, our father in faith, and the bread and wine offered by your priest Melchizedek. **

Almighty God, we pray that your angel may take this sacrifice to your altar in heaven. Then, as we receive from this altar the sacred body and blood of your Son, let us be filled with every grace and blessing. [Through Christ our Lord. Amen.]

Remember, Lord, those who have died and have gone before us marked with the sign of faith, especially those for whom we now pray, {names deceased loved ones whom the celebrant or parishioner wishes to offer before God}. May these, and all who sleep in Christ, find in your presence light, happiness, and peace. [Though Christ our Lord. Amen.]

For ourselves, too,** we ask some share in the fellowship of your apostles** and martyrs, with John the Baptist, Stephen, Matthias, Barnabas, [Ignatius, Alexander, Marcellinus, Peter, Felicity, Perpetua, Agatha, Lucy, Agnes, Cecilia, Anastasia] and all the saints. Though we are sinners, **we trust in your mercy and love. Do not consider what we truly deserve, but grant us your forgiveness. Through Christ our Lord. **

Through him you give us all these gifts. You fill them with life and goodness, you bless them and make them holy.

Through him, with him, in him, in the unity of the Holy Spirit, all glory and honor is yours, almighty Father, for ever and ever. Amen.
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You can throw all the words you’d like, still I like this ONE:
“that they may become the Body and  Blood
of your Son our Lord Jesus Christ,
at **whose command we celebrate **these mysteries”

Now if you want to minimize the fact that the Church says it is at Christ’s command we Celebrate these mysteries - be my guest.

I don’t have celebrate on my mind - someone said we can celebrate and praise and worship at at Mass, and the counter was that the Mass was more prayer than celebration thus all of these points … again from the revised mass:

"and of your Son our Lord Jesus Christ,
**at **whose command we celebrate ****these mysteries- don’t know how you can minimize this - it’s not numbers
 
QueenofPeace23 said:
You can throw all the words you’d like, still I like this ONE:
“that they may become the Body and  Blood
of your Son our Lord Jesus Christ,
at **whose command we celebrate **these mysteries”

Now if you want to minimize the fact that the Church says it is at Christ’s command we Celebrate these mysteries - be my guest.

I don’t have celebrate on my mind - someone said we can celebrate and praise and worship at at Mass, and the counter was that the Mass was more prayer than celebration thus all of these points " again from the revised mass:

"and of your Son our Lord Jesus Christ,
**at **whose command we celebrate ****these mysteries- don’t know how you can minimize this - it’s not numbers
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I would also add - if you look at the history of the Passover, from which the Mass and Eucharist grew with the sacrifice of the True Lamb of God - see if they celebrated the Passover - the history of our Judeo-Christian Catholic faith is wrought with celebration!! and prayer! and worship, and reverence - I don’t think you can minimize one to make a point, which is what appeared to be the case in the original point.
 
But earlier wasn’t it you who precisely tried to show accumulating numbers with that propped up excerpt?

Read the text of the whole Mass, without your biases. You’ll get a deeper and slightly different appreciation. Don’t be scanning for celebration, now. : >
 
Stylites said:
Neither chants nor guitars are prohibited, and both are allowed by the Church, so we ought not try to otherwise speak for the Church by claiming that one or the other are required or that one or the other ought to be banned. No one really knows what kind of music Jesus enjoys hearing, but I can assume that He well-enjoys the humble and contrite heart which offers up the joyful noise, whatever it is.
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The Church has actually spoken on this issue ad nauseum, but it seems that either no one is listening, or they are waiting for it to be defined ex cathedra in the manner of the Immaculate Conception!

Just because guitars/popular music compositional styles can be used in certain circumstances (because nothing else is available?), as long as they can be “rendered” suitable (whatever that means), does not mean that this music has to run the entire Church over like a bulldozer! Which it has!
 
QueenofPeace23 said:
No offense, But JPII was a shepherd to all. Do you remember when he came all the way down from the audience after hearing Tony Melendes sing a song at the World Youth Day Mass, playing with his toes. He came all the way down and KISSED him on the cheek!!! Do you think he said - “Tony, Tony - thank you for sharing your gifts and all that you have for the Lord - but Tony - the guitar is not good and you must sing Gregorian Chant to truly reach the heights of Heaven. And you must learn to play the organ with your toes to truly be holy” .]

I remember this, but it wasn’t during Mass was it? Anyway, of course the Holy Father would not say anything there on the spot! If crazy things happened during some of his youth Masses, it wasn’t the fault of the participants anyway - they were not the ones who planned it and approved it. It would accomplish nothing for him to reprove anyone on the spot.
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I’m a guitarist for the last 24 years of my life. I just got through playing my Strat for an hour or so. I love guitars, love 'em. But they have NO PLACE in a church, period.
 
Cat said:
Do you have any idea how hurtful this is? If I had heard someone say this back when I was still Protestant and I was first inquiring about the Catholic Church, I would have walked away and I would never have come back. I would not have been able to trust anyone who used my own name to insult me.
I am very tired of hearing the word “protestant” used like a swear word on this Catholic forum.
The Catholic Church is supposed to be the True Church of Jesus Christ, established by Him on this earth. And Catholics are supposed to be Christians who know the Fullness of the Lord Jesus Christ.
If I were Protestant and I read some of the cruel and insulting comments about Protestantism on this board, I would not believe that the Catholic Church is any kind of “church of Jesus Christ.”

One of the insults that is often written on this forum is the accusation that anyone who likes guitars, pianos, or “modern” sacred music by people like Marty Haugen must be either 1) stupid or 2) profane. In other words, “protestant.”
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Oh my goodness! Please don’t take such drastically great offense to the statements made by others! May I offer an observation?
IMHO, it seems that sometimes people say “Protestant” when referring to musical characteristics that might be appropriate to a more-or-less non-liturgical Christian
service as opposed to a Catholic Mass or Orthodox Divine Liturgy (or even some Lutheran or Anglican services).

The way I’m reading it, they are trying to describe a style of music that would be better suited to another type of worship service. When I think of the music played in some non-denominational mega-churches, it’s hard to come up with another word for it other than “protestant”. I agree it’s not the best term, after all, there are many beautiful Protestant hymns in the main line churches that sound like actual church music and not like a Celine Dion tune.
 
The_Curt_Jester said:
I will mention, again, that our current Pope has mentioned that guitars shouldn’t be used at Mass.
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I will mention, again, that people are blinded by their comforts and couldn’t care less about what this Pope or previous Popes have said about the proper music to be used at Mass (Gregorian Chant)…even if they are Catholic.
 
Of course says me, I never said someone else said it? :rolleyes: Where does it end? Let’s bring in harps, tamborines, maracas, drums, eucalayles, harmonicas, when is it finally inappropriate? The Tridentine Mass had Gregorian Chant and dignified music that reflected the solemnity, the dignity, the majesty, the awe of God Almighty in His Sacrifice of the Mass. The church isn’t the place to play Sergeant Pepper.
QueenofPeace23 said:
Says you
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Guitars are a wonderful instrument. It’s how its used that matters. Obviously, a Les Paul run through a Distortion Plus and a Marshall Stack wouldn’t be appropriate. OTOH, a classical guitar would be a wonderful addition.
 
Guitars are mainly associated with secular music, especially in our culture. I guess they can be “rendered” appropriately (?) if the organ is broken or there is no organist available, but that doesn’t explain the STYLE of “hymn” (for lack of a better word) that usually goes along with guitars…which is almost entirely non-sacred in compositional structure.

I agree with the posters who feel that this type of music has an undesirable effect on us (whether subliminal or blatant), changing the sacred character of the Mass into a more-or-less emotional, touchy-feely experience (whether it be a sob session or a happy-dance
occasion). The music may be uplifting, and make us “feel” devotional , and that might be good for another venue. But is that what the Mass is all about?
 
rben20 said:
I will mention, again, that people are blinded by their comforts and couldn’t care less about what this Pope or previous Popes have said about the proper music to be used at Mass (Gregorian Chant)…even if they are Catholic.
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Yes. But there might be one person who eventually listens if we keep saying it like a stuck record. 😃
 
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